387 réponses à ce sujet

[FedericoV]

Grestorn wrote...

Well, I don't see your point, honestly.

If you never click one of those red flashy heart dialog options, you'll never see any romances in this game. Awkward or not. But please accept that there are people who love this game, exactly BECAUSE you can live a fantasy in the game - including a certain romantic relationship.

It's not true. I've never choosen one of the romance option (except for Isabella) and my charachter act like an actual romance in many instances (because they have recycled voice over and animations). Every gift sequence. Every "confronting" dialogues feel that way if you choose the dilomatic option (and even the sarcastic one). Every time I speak with Fenris about his past because I'm friend with him and I'm interested in his background, that silly romantic music starts no matter what. And that's disturbing even with Merril because I'm not interested in her that way (so, it's not only a question of being gay/bisexual).

Long way short: develop charachters for what they bring the story, not to satisfy the sexuality of people who play your games. Otherwise it became a soap opera/sim game.

[Grestorn]

I didn't see that as a specifical "romantic" music score but more as a personal score for each character, no matter if you're just friends or actually in love with him or her.

If you want to see it that way, however, I can see your point. But then, maybe BW games are just not for you, since there is most definitely always a romantic, soap opera'tic touch to all of their games.

Modifié par Grestorn, 28 mars 2011 - 09:26 .

[FedericoV]

Grestorn wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

Same thing but when I interact with him my charachter has that silly expression on his face and the diplomatic option allways have that "we two apostate lover against the rest of the world" tone.

Since I'm no mage in this game, I can't really relate (any my involvement is with Fenris anyway), but does he really give you the impression of a lover or not more of a good friend, two men fighting together against the odds of the world?

At least in my playthrough he doesn't come across as being overly gay or advancing, with the exception of one or maybe two instances. He certainly was a quite jealous once, though ...

It's not how he acts. I understand that Anders is in that way and I would have accept it with no problems if he and Isabella were the only characthers who acts that way. The point is how MY Hawke acts with him. I have said at the beginning of our friendhship that I'm no interested and I've taken a large rivarly boost because of it (undeserved, imho). If I feel simpatetic with him because I'm apostate too and so I choose to alternate the diplomatic and the sarcastic options with him, I should not sound/look like a potential lover.

Modifié par FedericoV, 28 mars 2011 - 09:32 .

[Grestorn]

Well, if you feel that Hawke is acting to him like that, I can understand where you're coming from. My sarcastic Hawke never seemed to hit on Anders and Anders has obviously realized and eventually accepted that I'm with Fenris.

But since the game does change depending on your choices, there's no right or wrong here. Even when you're not given a dialog option in a certain situation, it seems that Hawke's reaction is based on what kind of dialog options you usually chose, i.e. my Hawke's is usually reacting in a sarcastic, witty way.

Modifié par Grestorn, 28 mars 2011 - 09:36 .

[Sabariel]

FedericoV wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

The "it's unrealistic" argument doesn't really hold water with me since you can create a Hawke that goes against everything your LI stands for and cares about and they'll still fall for him/her.

That only adds points to the "it's not realistic" thing.

To quote Varric: "Point. Missing it. Oh well."

[FedericoV]

Sabariel wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

The "it's unrealistic" argument doesn't really hold water with me since you can create a Hawke that goes against everything your LI stands for and cares about and they'll still fall for him/her.

That only adds points to the "it's not realistic" thing.

To quote Varric: "Point. Missing it. Oh well."

I'm not missing anything. It's that with all the good faith in the world I really do not see the logic in your argument. The fact that you can be rival and lover with a charachter should be a proof of what? That it's not unrealistic/consistent to have a party where 4 charachters out of 8 are bisexual? Sorry, it's not that I'm missing something, but it's that you are not making any point. Even Gaider admitted that it's not the zenit of realism and he's the main writer.

Imho, it's only a proof that (except Isabella) the other potential LIs have not any kind of consistency. They are just virtual puppets who are there to satisfy your Hawke in an "economically designed" manner. The sad thing is that if those charachters were not centered so much on the romance with Hawke (no matter what Hawke, say, do or thinks), they would have great story to tell. Personally, that's the reason why I've used Fenril, Merril and Anders  only in their NPC quests.

Modifié par FedericoV, 28 mars 2011 - 10:23 .

[BounceDK]

I don't want a guy hitting on me when I'm playing. I find it disgusting, sickening and disturbing. Other than that, DA2 still sucks.

[Zandilar]

FedericoV wrote...

Zandilar wrote...

Let me make a comment about the "unrealistic to have 4 bisexual characters in the one party"...

Like calls to like. It's simple as that. We tend to gravitate to people who share the same interests, or are otherwise compatible in personality. If this wasn't the case, we'd all be very lonely indeed, and especially us homosexuals because "it's unrealistic to see more than one at a time". *rolls eyes*

So, (in terms of internal consistency) they are deciding for me that Hawke is gay and/or bisexual.

Wich is a part of the issue of people saying "they are forcing me to be gay".

Well, neither Aveline nor Varric are LIs for Hawke, they never come on to her/him. You can flirt with Aveline regardless of your Hawke's gender, and she completely misses it. Neither of them get involved with Isabela, or any of the other companions. It isn't just one thing that draws people together, sexuality could be only one reason.

Therefore, your Hawke doesn't have to be bi or gay. She/he could just as easily be like Varric and Aveline, and completely not interested in anything more than friendship with her/his companions. She/he could be straight and only interested in the opposite sex companions romantically. She/he could be like Isabela, and try them all once each! Nothing about Hawke is set in stone, just because four of her/his companions could potentially be bi. (I am pretty sure Hawke has to be tolerant, though.)

Modifié par Zandilar, 28 mars 2011 - 11:17 .

[Grestorn]

BounceDK wrote...

I don't want a guy hitting on me when I'm playing. I find it disgusting, sickening and disturbing.

Why? I find it flattering, even if a woman hits on me.

You have to be disturbed yourself, to feel the way you do.

[MrTijger]

BounceDK wrote...

I don't want a guy hitting on me when I'm playing. I find it disgusting, sickening and disturbing. Other than that, DA2 still sucks.

Try talking with a professional mental health care provider.

Modifié par MrTijger, 28 mars 2011 - 11:19 .

[GalacticTHOR]

colex91 wrote...

 Alright now that I have your attention. I just wanted to point something out that has been bothering me..

Why all the controversy? We are in 2011 now, gay people are here forever, have been here forever, and will always be...Get used to it. I appreciate everything Bioware did for "us", they gained a lot of respect from me. I hope they continue to create gay relationships in other games, not just fem-fem.

How come the gay controversy didn't start when we had fem-fem in Mass Effect 1,2 and DA:O? Ohh, that's right cause it's okay!! it's hot!! No, it's just unfair. Zevran has been the only male-male relationship I have seen since I started playing video games. I have been playing games since NES. 

If they are really making you feel uncomfortable in the game...Turn them down? Don't pick conversation options with the heart Icon? Don't be overly nice in bad situations? Be real,get real.
 
I'm sure making this won't even matter, I live in a small town in the NC mountains, I know what it is like to be spit on,cussed, made fun of, for being who I am. The only thing that has gotten me through the anti-gay mess is a brighter future for acceptance. Bioware you took a step towards that in this game, you gained a loyal fan. Just know that the majority of us don't care about the bisexual relationships. It's just the select few ignorant people that attempt to make it seem like it is a big deal.  
I'm done ranting, signing off....
Loyal Gay Bioware Fan,Cole   Peace.

     I am a straight man but I completely agree with the above comment Bioware took a risk introducing gay relationships I remember Zevran in DAO when he came onto me I was completely shocked. I can't think of many male gay relationships in games and I think it is the natural progression for games. Games offer you to be who you want to be so it is only right you should be able to choose your sexual preferance. and I bet there are people out there who don't believe the male champion can be gay when he has such a straight demeanour. To those I say they're are more than one types of gay men, don't pigeon hole people. Why is it okay for the female champion to be a very straight played role and be gay, it's normal she doesn't have to be an anti-man woman with short hair. As for The male Champion he can be of any sexual preferance you want him to be, just because he is gay doesn't mean he is has to be running round with a camp voice and pink ribbons running up his sword. I think it is hillarious the Champion is that gay guy that homophobic men fear, the one who is more masculine more muscular than you. The one where you're talking to him and then you ask him if he has a girlfriend and he puts his arm around the guy next to him. lol!
  Well done Bioware It's only right that the gay community gets to get the role of the strong architype male hero, and doesn't get the stereotypical gay, funny sidekick.
  Once agina well done Bioware

Modifié par GalacticTHOR, 28 mars 2011 - 11:24 .

[vitae-vixi]

*sniff*

I'm female and... I just want to feel that there's a character designed for a female character to romance, that won't jump into bed with anything that moves...

That's what made Alistair great!

I think it's great that they are providing characters for all sexualities to Romance!
...

But can we have a few exclusive ones please? You know like... If there's 3 Male NPCs to romance... at least one will be exclusively romanceable by a woman! 

I think all of this would be avoided if the designers would have just thought about it and dealt with the sexuality issue a bit more subtly ><; Like... how many gay guys and girls have you come across that within two conversations with you are openly flirting? Not many, people... actually in any relationship?! I think there needs to be a more elaborate series of triggers for the relationships so we don't have people getting upset ><;

Homosexuals have been left out of romances in games... but so have girls!

And on that note....

Big Boobs... all the time... not nice for girls to be staring at T_T;;;;

Modifié par vitae-vixi, 28 mars 2011 - 11:45 .

[Grestorn]

vitae-vixi wrote...

*sniff*

I'm female and... I just want to feel that there's a character designed for a female character to romance, that won't jump into bed with anything that moves...

You see it the wrong way, as many others too:

http://social.biowar...86032/7#6808675

[Carol L S]

I think the gay romance opetions add interest to the game.  BUT I feel like the straight romance options are poor.  For my male Hawke, the only female options are Isabella or Merril???  Why couldn't my Hawke have something other than a choice between a sleaze bag and an elf?  The one "normal" human female is Aveline, and she is not a romance option.  i guess the same could be said for a female Hawke. Your choices are limited to two very troubled characters. My male Hawke was "forced" into being gay just because neither of the females were appealing at all.  Anders is the only halfway decent option, and we know he has his downfalls.    That's just my opinion on the whole romance thing in this game.

[vitae-vixi]

Carol L S wrote...

I think the gay romance opetions add interest to the game.  BUT I feel like the straight romance options are poor.  For my male Hawke, the only female options are Isabella or Merril???  Why couldn't my Hawke have something other than a choice between a sleaze bag and an elf?  The one "normal" human female is Aveline, and she is not a romance option.  i guess the same could be said for a female Hawke. Your choices are limited to two very troubled characters. My male Hawke was "forced" into being gay just because neither of the females were appealing at all.  Anders is the only halfway decent option, and we know he has his downfalls.    That's just my opinion on the whole romance thing in this game.

^

This.

[Grestorn]

Carol L S wrote...

I think the gay romance opetions add interest to the game.  BUT I feel like the straight romance options are poor.  For my male Hawke, the only female options are Isabella or Merril???  Why couldn't my Hawke have something other than a choice between a sleaze bag and an elf?  The one "normal" human female is Aveline, and she is not a romance option.  i guess the same could be said for a female Hawke. Your choices are limited to two very troubled characters. My male Hawke was "forced" into being gay just because neither of the females were appealing at all.  Anders is the only halfway decent option, and we know he has his downfalls.    That's just my opinion on the whole romance thing in this game.

I know for a fact that you can hit on Aveline. That she's not into you is... well... realistic...

It seems Dorric is more her type. You'll have to live with that.

I can hit on Sebastian as much as I want to, he doesn't fall in love with me. Pity.

I think it's pointless to discuss this issue. Those characters are fleshed out, they differ depending on your action in the game, which is very wellcome in my point of view. But they are still believable and reaslistic.

I like it that way.

[RedSonia]

Grestorn wrote...

vitae-vixi wrote...

*sniff*

I'm female and... I just want to feel that there's a character designed for a female character to romance, that won't jump into bed with anything that moves...

You see it the wrong way, as many others too:

http://social.biowar...86032/7#6808675

Why is it the wrong way? Because yours is the right one? It is your opinion, but it is as valid as hers, or mine.

I think there's no wrong or right in this issue. But now that I've jumped into this thread, my personal opinion (and it is just that, a personal opinion) is that the problem is not about being gay or not, having more or less choices or that the choices are right or wrong. I think the problem is how the romances are dealt with.

In DA:O romances were driven mainly by conversations, and you needed A LOT of them to actually trigger a romance. That way, you could get to know, if there's such a thing, the character's personality before knowing if you wanted to romance him or not, and the feeling of being part of the game was awesome. That made the game very popular amongst females, who are known to be more interesting in feelings than in combat .

Here the dialog choices are very limited. Thus, the romance is rushed. Anders has to hit on you quickly: he only has 4-6 dialogs to make him fall in love with you before Act 2 finishes . So in the very first dialog he already gives you a chance to swear him forever love. Really, that's how I felt, both with a female and a male characters (both of them hetero, though the female had some bi- tendences :innocent:). My male character had to use the "Broken heart" option without having even tried to flirt with him, as has already been said, and it was quite uncomfortable, because he really wanted to be his friend, but nothing else. It was kind of "now I get angry and I don't breath!" to get rivalry points just because of that, because nobody was giving Anders false hopes. And my female character received some "You can't love me! I'd make you unhappy forever" answers in her very second conversation which made her think "Is this boy nuts or what? I only said he had a nice body, I didn't ask him to marry me!"

This is a very big difference with DAO, in which a character would jump on you for sex in his/her very first conversation (Zevran comes to mind..., though you actually need a bit more than that before that actually counts for approval) but a real relationship in which feelings were involved, that came only later, after a lot of deep and interesting conversations.

So yes, I also think romance here is worse than in DAO. Not only because of all the LI being available for either gender (which honestly, yes, bothers me, because I think it's lame and makes the characters lack depht, but it is just my feeling and I don't have to force anyone else to think the way I do), but because it is rushed and somehow, imposed.

Just my two cents, anyway. Feel free to disagree, that's what forums are for

[Rhys1984]

Just take the rivalry hit and then get it back with the more than ample opportunities for friendship points, or delve into rivalry, you'll get different responses throughout the game, good for replayability.

So what if a gay guy hits on you, he only acts homosexual if you're a dude in the first place, you could always play as a woman.

In real life, especially in the more metropolitan areas where the population is greater and therefore the homosexual population is greater, you may, if you are a heterosexual male, be hit on by a homosexual male. Ask yourself how you would react, if you politely rebuff them, they might be a bit miffed at you, see, there you go, you've just earnt RL rivalry points!

People feel I think a sense of entitlement towards a perceived status quo. I'm the games protagonist, I should be the more dominant and imposing figure, how dare a NPC hit on ME! And then how dare he be miffed at me when I rebuff his advances. However you can always develop a relationship afterwards.

[BounceDK]

MrTijger wrote...

BounceDK wrote...

I don't want a guy hitting on me when I'm playing. I find it disgusting, sickening and disturbing. Other than that, DA2 still sucks.

Try talking with a professional mental health care provider.

Butthurt? Get it? haha .. Seriously though, if you're gay you better get your head examined, something isn't quite right up there.

[Grestorn]

RedSonia wrote...

Grestorn wrote...

vitae-vixi wrote...

*sniff*

I'm female and... I just want to feel that there's a character designed for a female character to romance, that won't jump into bed with anything that moves...

You see it the wrong way, as many others too:

http://social.biowar...86032/7#6808675

Why is it the wrong way? Because yours is the right one? It is your opinion, but it is as valid as hers, or mine.

Sorry if it came across this way, I didn't mean it like this.

What I meant with "the wrong way" is that most people see the NP characters as being the same throughout all playthroughs. But they're not. They're a different each time, dependent on the player's gender and his decisions.

They see them as being "bi" just because they can be straight in one game and gay in the next. But this is just two completely different stories, they're not the same characters, but more two "what if"s.

I think it's pretty obvious that the developers wanted it that way, they also commented it like that.


With the rest of your statements I have to agree, though. I also was a bit disappointed on the shallowness of the romances. Not how they played out - the one case I know, Male Hawke with Fenris, played out nicely so far - but it was to easy to start the romance.

[Grestorn]

BounceDK wrote...

Butthurt? Get it? haha .. Seriously though, if you're gay you better get your head examined, something isn't quite right up there.

You're truly a sad person.

Do you believe in God? Well, if you do, then please ask your God why he made genes that allowed people to feel attracted to their own gender. Some of them so distinctively, that they get sick alone with the thought of having sex with the opposite gender.

Nobody chose that. I tried to live a normal life, I was married with a woman even. But I couldn't live a lie. I came to terms with that, but really, whoever your God may be, why did he have to make it so hard on me? Why not on you, who's so obviously extremely narrow minded?

Modifié par Grestorn, 28 mars 2011 - 01:14 .

[Rhys1984]

I was gay for Justice, not Anders, he just happened to be the squishy coating.

I find glowy eyes, hot.

Modifié par Rhys1984, 28 mars 2011 - 12:41 .

[RedSonia]

OK, I see your point. Definitely it is valid, but IMHO the consistence of the game includes meeting the same characters in diferent playthroughs. That's of course the way I like to play, so it works best for me. I like to replay DAO as a male and see that Alistair, who is utterly straight, won't give a rose to my character but will be a great buddy, because that means that he is himself and his personality doesn't depend on me. Otherwise it would be like... I don't know, having the Chantry in Lowtown if your character is a mage and in The Gallows if he's a rogue? (Ok, this goes pretty close to the decission of killing Bethany or Carver at the beginning of the story so feel free to use it against my reasoning XD) The NPCs are (for me) part of the background of the game, things which would be there even if Hawke wasn't. If they're different in each playthrough, it makes my vision of the story a bit weaker.

But if the developers have decided to do it that way, well, it's up to them. As it is up to me to like it or not. This only means I'm enjoying this game less than DAO because of those decissions. No more, no less.

[GalacticTHOR]

[/quote]

Sorry if it came across this way, I didn't mean it like this.

What I meant with "the wrong way" is that most people see the NP characters as being the same throughout all playthroughs. But they're not. They're a different each time, dependent on the player's gender and his decisions.

They see them as being "bi" just because they can be straight in one game and gay in the next. But this is just two completely different stories, they're not the same characters, but more two "what if"s.

I think it's pretty obvious that the developers wanted it that way, they also commented it like that.

[/quote]

             I like this comment it's very good the NPC's aren't attracted to your character gender!! They're attracted to the champion's character who he/she is as a person hence why it all depends on they're friendship/rivalry to you, they may not agree with your choices but they RESPECT the character it takes to make these choices, they base they're feelings on your actions and how you deal with the choices put before you. 

    To all the people on here who are acting like ignorant homophobic idiots, grow up! I am a straight male man and I don't ahve a problem with the characters hitting on me just like I don't mind if in the real world a man hits on me I simply say:  'Sorry mate I'm not gay' Why do people feel to quote some of them "SICK" when a NPC character hits on you or when a real person hits on you? i'm sure you do it to LOADS of women and they probably feel sick when you wolf whistle at them or grab their ass. I grew up in a family of women so yes I was taught to have some respect. The people on here who are insulting gay peop[le don't use the anominimity of the internet to abuse and insult people. They can't help being gay just like you can't help being an abnoxious, ignorant person who can't think about anyone else but yourself! It's how you were born. Also don't sprout any of that CRAP it's unnatural or it's against GOD! If God who is according to most religions ALMIGHTY if he was so against homosexuals then why would he allow a genetic trait to exist that made people attracted to the same sex. As for the it's unnatural thing let me make a quick case, why do we have poeple in the world who are unable to conceive? Also why do people die? It is to keep the population down. Now if we were to look at it as a PURELY scientific way (now any people gay or otherwise who are offended by this next comment I am DEEPLY sorry I do not mean it to be hurtful) is it possible that evolution or God or whatever created a gene that made people attracted to the same sex, so that a certain percentage of the population was not conceiving children?
   
     I can't beleive I managed to turn a conversation about gay romances into a a conversation about evolution and God! LOL 
 Once again hope I haven't offended people with that last comment was not meant to offend
 

[Leovigild]

BounceDK wrote...

MrTijger wrote...

BounceDK wrote...

I don't want a guy hitting on me when I'm playing. I find it disgusting, sickening and disturbing. Other than that, DA2 still sucks.

Try talking with a professional mental health care provider.

Butthurt? Get it? haha .. Seriously though, if you're gay you better get your head examined, something isn't quite right up there.

Actually most People raging on homosexuals are unsure about their own sexuality, and are afraid of feelings, which thex think, they are forbidden. Me is straight, and sure about that, and so i´m not afraid, and am able to accept the humans around me as they are, and be glad if they found love, as it´s best for them.

The little Rest of the antihomosexual Mobs btw. are just bigot idiots.

Modifié par Leovigild, 28 mars 2011 - 03:14 .