176 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

Even if it sells the same as the average of other Bioware games it's still failed, because it never met the objectives set.

[Volourn]

The new is arguing with a vet. Trust me on this one simple fact: The internet. the internet never changes. Understand that simple phrase and you will understand everything.


"Even if it sells the same as the average of other Bioware games it's still failed, because it never met the objectives set. "

Are you high? You don't even know what their objectives were? Nobody claimed that D2 had to sell 10mil copies or it be a failure. What BIO stated was that their goal was to 8eventually* be able to have a 10mil copy selling game.

I wish people would know what they are talking about before posting. It's embarassing to read those who don't know what they don't know pretending to know what they don't know.

Trust me on that. I know what I know which you do not know that you do not know.

Modifié par Volourn, 27 mars 2011 - 07:10 .

[Chaos_1001]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Volourn wrote...

Some of you newbies should have been around for tehr eleases of NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, and ME2. LMAO

Every single one of the releases were suppsoed to be 'BIO's death kell'. And, NWN was released way back in 2002-2003. HA!

DA2 will sell like the typical BIO game. DA3 will do just fine. ME3 will do just fine.

People seem to think b/c the vocal MINORITY dislikes a game that eveyrone hates it. That's ridiculous.

If vocal minority mattered BIO would have been dead with their very first game.

You don't know who the minority are or the majority you have no right to speak for them. Just because someone doesn't create a forum account doesn't mean they did or did not like the game one way or the other.

Absoluty Dragoonlordz !  Most of the thoughts discussed are in fact opinions. Take myself for instance, look at my account creation date, based with your own debates with just me is it not reasonable to understand that I in fact ( opinion dosent matter in this example ) know what I'm talking about when it comes to rpgs and dragon age lore in general ? We disagree at times on opinions of certain aspects of the current game. But honestly that does not put either of us in a sterotype or catagory at all.  

This mentality of everyone fits in this spot or that spot and these reviews say this and that and metacritic displays whatever data, is completly irrevelant.

I absolutly love this statement you made .

You don't know who the minority are or the majority you have no right to speak for them. Just because someone doesn't create a forum account doesn't mean they did or did not like the game one way or the other.

Never a truer statement made.

[Dragoonlordz]

Volourn wrote...

The new is arguing with a vet. Trust me on this one simple fact: The internet. the internet never changes. Understand that simple phrase and you will understand everything.


"Even if it sells the same as the average of other Bioware games it's still failed, because it never met the objectives set. "

Are you high? You don't even know what their objectives were? Nobody claimed that D2 had to sell 10mil copies or it be a failure. What BIO stated was that their goal was to 8eventually* be able to have a 10mil copy selling game.

I wish people would know what they are talking about before posting. It's embarassing to read those who don't know what they don't know pretending to know what they don't know.

Trust me on that. I know what I know which you do not know that you do not know.

You assume I don't know or been around longer that you based on what? Your a vet and I'm new? lol I been around since dawn of internet and much much longer, your no more 'vet' than I am.

You keep saying 'trust me' then go on to talk out your derriere.. Bob was right that they wanted to attract new people to their product series and this was stated by them, if the sales don't back that up he is right as a probability but not a certainty. Just because you tell people to trust you doesn't mean your right now matter how often you say it. <_<

Even polls, reviews and articles on other sites are not enough to say one thing is right and other wrong, the scores differ from site to site and some site more open to abuse than others but to say you know who the majority or not because you say the words "trust me"... Seriously?

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 mars 2011 - 07:21 .

[Pwnzor326]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Pwnzor326 wrote...

Considering Dragon Age II is on 3 platforms I think they will easily sell around 2-3 million justifying a third game. I think all the fan bashing of the game means nothing to the games sales because most of the people who are bashing the game already bought Dragon Age II and will most probably buy Dragon Age 3 no matter what Bioware does.

Sorry, but if DA3 has more in common with DA2 than DA:O then no I won't be buying it so there's no 'probably' about it.

We'll see when DA3 launches

[Volourn]

You sure your theory is correct? If you been around longer than me than that would eman you are older than time itself. Are you older than time itself? I doubt that very much. Trust me on this.

[AkiKishi]

Pwnzor326 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Pwnzor326 wrote...

Considering Dragon Age II is on 3 platforms I think they will easily sell around 2-3 million justifying a third game. I think all the fan bashing of the game means nothing to the games sales because most of the people who are bashing the game already bought Dragon Age II and will most probably buy Dragon Age 3 no matter what Bioware does.

Sorry, but if DA3 has more in common with DA2 than DA:O then no I won't be buying it so there's no 'probably' about it.

We'll see when DA3 launches

If that were enough for EA then they would never have needed to "evolve". The most likely scenario thus far is a repeat of Westwood.

[orpheus333]

MrTijger wrote...

Well, perhaps the haters will win and the Dragon Age universe will end with DA 2. I mean, that's what you're all hoping for, right?

Or does anyone think that subpar sales will lead to more money being pumped into the franchise? Really? How peculiar...

They could have made a better game and this point would have been moot. However if the executives tell bioware to axe the franchise i really wouldn't care and the disappointed gamers definatly aren't to blame if ot happens (which it won't).

[Cybermortis]

IF DA3 is made and released - It is not confirmed that it will be, and I would be surprised if there is any statement on this until Bioware has a good chance to look back at the response to DA2, and at least tried to address complaints.


The majority of people on here don't hate the game. Excluding the 'Bioware is God' and 'Bioware is the devil' extremes the majority got some enjoyment out of the game. They just didn't get much, and all agree it has serious problems in execution if not intent. This same majority is also for the most part indicating that they will not be pre-ordering Bioware games in future or getting any of the DLC for DA2.

ME3 will almost certainly be a success, unless they've managed to badly mess it up. I suspect initial sales will be somewhat lower than hoped, due to fewer pre-orders, but people are going to buy it if only so they can finish the series off. So it will probably do as expected in the long term if not better, depending on quality. (And there will be people complaining about ME3 no matter what they do with the game).

It is whatever game follows ME3 that will give a better idea as to how badly DA2 has damaged Bioware's reputation. And I don't expect that to appear for another 12 months at least.

[Persephone]

Volourn wrote...

Some of you newbies should have been around for tehr releases of NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, and ME2. LMAO

Every single one of the releases were suppsoed to be 'BIO's death knell'. And, NWN was released way back in 2002-2003. HA!.

I remember some of these releases and the outrage following them quite well. Bioware being accused of having bought critics because the Metascore for ME2 was "way too high". DA being an "abomination, unworthy of being called the spiritual successor of the BG series". Just to mention Bioware's most popular recent games and what was said about them. If a score is too high, it was "bought". If it was too low and the fans liked it, the critics were all snobs who wouldn't know a good game if it bit them. It's human nature. A fanbase (A minority, as most who buy these games will never see these forums) reacts depending on what IT wants and expects, if the critics agree, they are golden. If not, they are "bought" and know nothing about good games. Human nature again. It is also mostly the fanbase who skews user ratings with extremes, either to push a game or to sabotage it.

I've said it before and will say it again, there are no official sale numbers and until those are released, everything about numbers is speculation at best. I am convinced however that there will be a DA3 and DLC and and an expansion for DA2 to bridge the gap. If these will be good or another Awakening/Witch Hunt is also speculation. Time will tell.

[Nick Fox]

Cybermortis wrote...

IF DA3 is made and released - It is not confirmed that it will be, and I would be surprised if there is any statement on this until Bioware has a good chance to look back at the response to DA2, and at least tried to address complaints.


The majority of people on here don't hate the game. Excluding the 'Bioware is God' and 'Bioware is the devil' extremes the majority got some enjoyment out of the game. They just didn't get much, and all agree it has serious problems in execution if not intent. This same majority is also for the most part indicating that they will not be pre-ordering Bioware games in future or getting any of the DLC for DA2.

ME3 will almost certainly be a success, unless they've managed to badly mess it up. I suspect initial sales will be somewhat lower than hoped, due to fewer pre-orders, but people are going to buy it if only so they can finish the series off. So it will probably do as expected in the long term if not better, depending on quality. (And there will be people complaining about ME3 no matter what they do with the game).

It is whatever game follows ME3 that will give a better idea as to how badly DA2 has damaged Bioware's reputation. And I don't expect that to appear for another 12 months at least.

This I can agree with whole heartdly.

[DTKT]

Most of the changes in DAII were aimed to make it more "friendly" and less daunting to get into. If it sells the same amount as DAO but also gets a much lower metacritic score and a somewhat mitigated reception with critics.

What was the point of changing things? What did Bioware gained beside an okay game to their name?

[Maverick827]

DTKT wrote...

What did Bioware gained beside an okay game to their name?

What does anyone gain when trying new things?

Expect DA3 to be a mixture of DAO and DA2, and all the better for having both games made.

[_Aine_]

I personally miss it being something I at least *sometimes* used my brain for. =) Anything good has a learning curve, DA:O was no different in that regard. I don't wind mindlessly easy crafting, fighting, etc. Saying that doesn't mean I hate the game, because I certainly don't. Just means some things worked for *me* and some things didn't. Last I checked I wasn't their only customer lol so anything I say is a grain of salt in...well, a salt mine, the sea...something salty Point being, it doesn't matter really what I think, to them individually or as a whole. What does matter (to me again) is what I enjoy enough to spend my $$$ on, based on previous cumulative experiences with the product.

I think DA2 is quite decent for a console game though, compared with other console games certainly so! (My hubby is playing DA2 on PS3 and I am on PC) I think complexity simply works better for PC games due to input differences. Things just can't be all things to all people, and trying is just going to disappoint someone, inevitably.

Modifié par shantisands, 27 mars 2011 - 08:45 .

[AkiKishi]

DTKT wrote...

Most of the changes in DAII were aimed to make it more "friendly" and less daunting to get into. If it sells the same amount as DAO but also gets a much lower metacritic score and a somewhat mitigated reception with critics.

What was the point of changing things? What did Bioware gained beside an okay game to their name?

EA probably feel that Biowares reputation is not reflected in their sales. Funny thing is , DA2 pulls the reputation down rather than pushing the sales up. Probaby not the balance they were looking for.

Have a look at the pacing of combat in DS3. It's got a really nice flow, but you can still see how the skills are used.
DA2 has two states of play pause-click-pause click or hyper active real time.

[Legbiter]

Volourn wrote...

Some of you newbies should have been around for tehr eleases of NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, and ME2. LMAO

Every single one of the releases were suppsoed to be 'BIO's death kell'. And, NWN was released way back in 2002-2003. HA!

DA2 will sell like the typical BIO game. DA3 will do just fine. ME3 will do just fine.

People seem to think b/c the vocal MINORITY dislikes a game that eveyrone hates it. That's ridiculous.

If vocal minority mattered BIO would have been dead with their very first game.

BG2 and Throne of Bhaal were greeted with howls of derision, nerd ragequits and "Bioware has sold it's soul for a few extra bucks!!!" on the ancient forums as well. BG2's quests was boring FedX tripe and having Yoshi always betray you (why does mama Hawke die? WHY!!!?) was evidence of terrible writing and why David Gaider should be fired.

[AkiKishi]

Legbiter wrote...

Volourn wrote...

Some of you newbies should have been around for tehr eleases of NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, and ME2. LMAO

Every single one of the releases were suppsoed to be 'BIO's death kell'. And, NWN was released way back in 2002-2003. HA!

DA2 will sell like the typical BIO game. DA3 will do just fine. ME3 will do just fine.

People seem to think b/c the vocal MINORITY dislikes a game that eveyrone hates it. That's ridiculous.

If vocal minority mattered BIO would have been dead with their very first game.

BG2 and Throne of Bhaal were greeted with howls of derision, nerd ragequits and "Bioware has sold it's soul for a few extra bucks!!!" on the ancient forums as well. BG2's quests was boring FedX tripe and having Yoshi always betray you (why does mama Hawke die? WHY!!!?) was evidence of terrible writing and why David Gaider should be fired.

My thinking was more along the lines of "How many people would it take to get that many pools of blood that size"...
That's discounting the very bright red.

[Thalorin1919]

Talogrungi wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

I think the fact that so many of the people defending DA2 over DA:O can't even formulate a grammatically correct, properly annuciated sentence really says alot about its target audience... Really Bioware? You think they have more money to spend than us?

Irony is awesome.

I agree.

[Korusus]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Pwnzor326 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Pwnzor326 wrote...

Considering Dragon Age II is on 3 platforms I think they will easily sell around 2-3 million justifying a third game. I think all the fan bashing of the game means nothing to the games sales because most of the people who are bashing the game already bought Dragon Age II and will most probably buy Dragon Age 3 no matter what Bioware does.

Sorry, but if DA3 has more in common with DA2 than DA:O then no I won't be buying it so there's no 'probably' about it.

We'll see when DA3 launches

If that were enough for EA then they would never have needed to "evolve". The most likely scenario thus far is a repeat of Westwood.

If TOR bombs, you can bank on it.

I don't know how much DA2 cost to make vs. DA:O.  I don't know if BioWare was so hard up for money that they rushed DA2  and don't care about how much it sells as long as it sells.  I don't know if they're disappointed at the ratings, I don't even know if DA2 is actually selling really well (despite the evidence) and BioWare/EA are happy with it.  But what I do know is that the day will come when EA closes BioWare.  It may not be for a while...may be a decade from now.  But it will happen.  And releasing 79s and games that are meant to "expand the audience" that fail to do so...that can only hasten the arrival of that day.

BioWare cost EA more money than any other development studio in history.  I have to believe that they want to maintain BioWare's reputation.  And if games like DA:O outsell games like Mass Effect 2 and DA2...well then perhaps they should just drop the pretentions and stop making RPGs altogether, because that is the only way you'll ever attract a non-RPG playing crowd and "expand the audience".  These little hybrids are obvious fail.

[DTKT]

Maverick827 wrote...

DTKT wrote...

What did Bioware gained beside an okay game to their name?

What does anyone gain when trying new things?

Expect DA3 to be a mixture of DAO and DA2, and all the better for having both games made.

Trying new things is great. When it compromises your game, not so much.

[Zanallen]

I hope they make DA 3 and that it will have nothing to do with the mage/templar conflict. That would be awesome. Have it set in a new country with a new protagonist and just a few casual references to the crumbling chantry and mass mage genocide.

[Vicious]

Pretty much, mesh the best of DAO and DA2 and you have a stellar game, provided you TAKE YOUR TIME WITH IT, BIOWARE.

That said, I don't care what the game's about, as long as it isn't in DA2's style. Have the story be about one thing, and the events leading up to it. DA2's acts sucked hardcore and felt really random, given act 2 had nothing to do with act 1 [except sidequests] and act 3 was a rushjob that made little sense.

[OmegaBlue0231]

Zanallen wrote...

I hope they make DA 3 and that it will have nothing to do with the mage/templar conflict. That would be awesome. Have it set in a new country with a new protagonist and just a few casual references to the crumbling chantry and mass mage genocide.

Dude, the Chantry is in most of Thedas. You'd have to go across the ocean to a new continent to get away from.

[Maverick827]

DTKT wrote...

Trying new things is great. When it compromises your game, not so much.

Too bad "compromises the game" isn't an observation which can be made empirically. I personally believe BioWare's experimentation with companions-as-family, narrative structure, more responsive combat, voice acting (for this team, at least - I'm sure the ME team has it down), and other minor things will prove invaluable to the success of DA3.

[Cybermortis]

As has been noted elsewhere, the potential for DA2 was good and the idea of having a game that wasn't all about 'saving the world' wasn't a bad one.

What was bad was how it was done, and how it was put together. The saddest thing here is that if they had allowed the game to be developed for another few months it would probably have been quite good - at least a lot better than what we ended up with.