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Sales? Will there be a DA3?


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#151
Zanallen

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OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I hope they make DA 3 and that it will have nothing to do with the mage/templar conflict. That would be awesome. Have it set in a new country with a new protagonist and just a few casual references to the crumbling chantry and mass mage genocide.


Dude, the Chantry is in most of Thedas. You'd have to go across the ocean to a new continent to get away from.


Rivain or Tevinter or Par Vollen would be three choices. But c'mon! It would be sweet just for the fact that they could go a whole new game without showing the end of this conflict. Think of the forum rage! People are already complaining that DA 2 doesn't have a real ending and that Bioware is going to milk them for cash with DLCs and Expansions. Imagine if a complete game came out and STILL didn't offer a conclusion to the mage/templar conflict.

#152
DTKT

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Maverick827 wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Trying new things is great. When it compromises your game, not so much.

Too bad "compromises the game" isn't an observation which can be made empirically. I personally believe BioWare's experimentation with companions-as-family, narrative structure, more responsive combat, voice acting (for this team, at least - I'm sure the ME team has it down), and other minor things will prove invaluable to the success of DA3.


The rampant recycling isnt enough for you?

#153
Nick Fox

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Cybermortis wrote...

As has been noted elsewhere, the potential for DA2 was good and the idea of having a game that wasn't all about 'saving the world' wasn't a bad one.

What was bad was how it was done, and how it was put together. The saddest thing here is that if they had allowed the game to be developed for another few months it would probably have been quite good - at least a lot better than what we ended up with.


Without a doubt. The ideas are there, the execution is not. Some think this is the best game ever but in time I truly belive this will go down as the missed potential game of the franchise and nothing else.
Kind of the black cheap of the family thing.

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#154
Maverick827

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DTKT wrote...

The rampant recycling isnt enough for you?

Enough what?

#155
Cybermortis

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Zanallen wrote...

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I hope they make DA 3 and that it will have nothing to do with the mage/templar conflict. That would be awesome. Have it set in a new country with a new protagonist and just a few casual references to the crumbling chantry and mass mage genocide.


Dude, the Chantry is in most of Thedas. You'd have to go across the ocean to a new continent to get away from.


Rivain or Tevinter or Par Vollen would be three choices. But c'mon! It would be sweet just for the fact that they could go a whole new game without showing the end of this conflict. Think of the forum rage! People are already complaining that DA 2 doesn't have a real ending and that Bioware is going to milk them for cash with DLCs and Expansions. Imagine if a complete game came out and STILL didn't offer a conclusion to the mage/templar conflict.


Only in the latter is there no Chantry.

#156
AkiKishi

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I'm looking forward to next friday, when I finally get my hands on Dynasty Warriors 7 and can see how it really compares to DA2's combat.

#157
Cyberstrike nTo

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Speakeasy13 wrote...

Vixvis wrote...

idk DA2 sold pretty fast nd got alot of great reviews,just because theres a buncha complaining PC nerds dont mean anything, as far as i know and i know this for a fact DA2 isnt the last game in the series they are gonna expand this franchise until their very last penny whether or not DA@ does good or bad.......In my Opinion this DA2 is almost better in evry aspect than DAO and is definetly the best game on the market for me right now.

I think the fact that so many of the people defending DA2 over DA:O can't even formulate a grammatically correct, properly annuciated sentence really says alot about its target audience... Really Bioware? You think they have more money to spend than us?



I love Dragon Age II and at least I try to "formaulate a grammtically correct properally annuciated sentences" seriouslly though I think people like you need to pull the stick out your ass.

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 27 mars 2011 - 10:03 .


#158
Nick Fox

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BobSmith101 wrote...

I'm looking forward to next friday, when I finally get my hands on Dynasty Warriors 7 and can see how it really compares to DA2's combat.



Hey BobSmith, I belive it will do just fine in the comparrison if I know that franchise right.
Good for what it does, just not my cup of tea.

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#159
Zanallen

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Cybermortis wrote...

Only in the latter is there no Chantry.


Exactly, buddy. Exactly.

Though, Rivain resists the chantry influence due to their reliance of witches or some such and Tevinter has their own verison of the chantry and mages rule the country so...

Modifié par Zanallen, 27 mars 2011 - 10:08 .


#160
billy the squid

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[/quote]
... I don't think sales are everything to look at. Budget vs. sales is the interesting number. If DA:O sold 4,5 mio. copies, but was in development for 5 years, but DA2 manages to sell 2 mio. but was in development for 18 month, what game made a higher profit? It's all speculation, since we don't know the budget behind DA:O or DA2, but still, while 2 mio. might not be the magic number they were shooting at, it might not be a desaster either.

If they made money with this, there will be a sequel. If not, then there won't be one. Given that they already talked about a possible Jade Empire 2, right after the DA2 release, maybe they leave the DA franchise for good, who knows?
[/quote]

Yet, there in lies the problem of which game cost more to develop. Bioware being an independent company until 2007 and DAO being in development for since 2004, whilst the release was in 2009.

Now, whilst I can't determine if EA absorbed any of the costs associated with the first years of development without Bioware's cashflow data or EA's data, it might be appropriate to assume that Bioware paid for development from its own revenue stream in the first few years whilst EA would absorb costs only after Bioware became the subsidiary in 2007.

If this assumption is true then DAO could be considered to be more financially sucessful than DA 2, particularly if EA did not have to foot the bill for the initial stages of development and Bioware as a company was not overly leveraged.

It is likely that EA targeted Bioware to enter the RPG market following the success of ME1 and the potential for 2 new lucrative IP franchises, which makes it strange as to why Mr. Laidlaw has attempted to mainstream the genre by removing so many aspects which made DAO sell so well in attempt to appeal to the so called "CoD market"

Possibly a drive for increased sales revenue by EA, but publishers are unlikely to have any direct influence over the development direction of a game more concerned by income streams, sales figures and consumer perception of their products, which makes me think that the development team instead of building on the obvious strengths of the first game threw everything out in an attempt to appeal to a new larger player base, without understanding what actually attracts such players to genres such as FPS/ 3rd PS/ Action Adventure. The result alienating a sizable section of the existing consumer base without succesfully tapping into the much larger if more shifting mainstream base.

Case in point, ME2 stripped most of what people would call RPG mechanics, but as the original was a shooter hybrid it did not overtly damage sales figures for the game predecated on only this dimension. However, the polish of said game is undeniably better than the first and the DLC content is equally very well done without feeling  as if it were obviously tacked on, thus i think measure of leway was given by fans of the original who were disappointed by some aspects that were changed, whilst the visuals themselves and the mechanics attracted more of a casual game crowd, but retained most of the original fanbase.

Yet, in comparison to games such as Halo, CoD, Assassin's Creed, Gears of War all undeniably heavily action orientated still sold more than ME2, I think the main point is that to appeal to the mainstream market one must go up against very well known IP giants who have carved out a share of the market, by agressively fighting off any encroaching opposition, by adhearing to a set criteria which defines them from competitors eg Gears of War 2  very graphic grim shooter, which expanded on the sucess of the first not by changing the ideology behind the franchise as DA2 tried to and, I think, failed to do so succesfully, but by expanding the scope of the appeal by creating a larger world whithout comprimising the principles which the core audience enjoyed.

p.s
Sorry I seem to have gone off on a tangent, but will ther be a DA 3?  it is likely I don't think EA will let go of their foothold in the RPG market so easily the ability to expoilt new revenue streams can't be ignored. I think a better question is what form will DA 3 take?

If anything has been learnt from this experience it is to attempt to dominate a particular market thereby forcing out all other competition, By expanding on the strengths of DAO, rather than try to enter a new market were the brand name is not as well known and the appeal FPS and action etc is so drastically different. the new star wars MMO seems to be a better case inpoint, attempt to depose Wof Warcraft as the dominant MMO is within Bioware's ability via its experience with this kind of niche market.  

I know some of this appears to be broad strokes, but just some the thoughts on the topic

Modifié par billy the squid, 27 mars 2011 - 10:12 .


#161
AkiKishi

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Jade Empire has a lot more chance to be mass market, especially if they carry on the anime theme from DA2.

#162
habitat 67

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Jade Empire had the most beautiful, impressive environments.

#163
Cybermortis

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I suspect that DA2 was released purely because the wanted to have a game out at the start of the year.

I seem to recall something about Bioware/EA indicating that they were going to release two games per year. If so, and trying to rediscover my optimistic side, it may be that they've had to rush one game through development - and they picked DA2 purely because they knew the name would bring in some customers.
Should this have been the case then hopefully they've been able to set longer and more realistic development cycles for future games. With games being developed over, say, two years with staggered cycles so they can continue with the two games a year idea.

What seems most likely to me is that they have a game under development intended for release in the first half of 2012, and another in the last half - much as the DA2/ME3 release dates. It would be the height of stupidity for them to have tabbed DA3 for the early release date, unless its development started at the exact same time as DA2.

As to a DA3 - I suspect that it will happen, since logic would indicate it would be faster and cheaper to build up a story in an existing world with its own look than to start from scratch. Having said that...well I wouldn't expect any comments on a DA3 for a while. Not until they've had a chance to look at the sales figures, look at the things people disliked about DA2 that need to be addressed and figure out if they can make a DA3 people will buy at a price Bioware/EA is willing to pay. They may come to the conclusion that DA should be put on hold for a while, with another project being pushed to the front of the cue.

Modifié par Cybermortis, 27 mars 2011 - 10:29 .


#164
Relshar

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DA:3 will start to be developed will take to long and EA will shut down BioWAre this is what usualy happens when EA takes over a company. 10 years latter another development house will buy the IP and remake DA for the fans. Like Deus Ex is being done now.

#165
glacier1701

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Another point that has cropped up is how that still within 30 days of release the price on the game is already dropping. Coupled with a no hassle return by Amazon even if opened seems to suggest that the retailers are not happy with the rate of sale. Not sure how much can be read into this but I do know that I'll be looking to get $10 back on my game and that means that in the end less dollars make it back to EA BioWare despite a sale. If enough people do it then the impact of that cannot be good for future projects. Look at the figures if they have sold 1 million units and only 10% of us get our $10 back that is $1 million less in dollar sales. Does not sound like much until you realise that represents just under 2% of the dollars earned. And if more than 10% get $10 and/or a lot of people return their Amazon purchase the impact could be more than enough for EA BioWare to sit up and notice.

#166
steelfire_dragon

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not really expecting a third implementation of the dragon age series.

and I hope that if there is one it is not called dragon age 3

#167
UncleScrooge

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glacier1701 wrote...

Another point that has cropped up is how that still within 30 days of release the price on the game is already dropping. Coupled with a no hassle return by Amazon even if opened seems to suggest that the retailers are not happy with the rate of sale. Not sure how much can be read into this but I do know that I'll be looking to get $10 back on my game and that means that in the end less dollars make it back to EA BioWare despite a sale. If enough people do it then the impact of that cannot be good for future projects. Look at the figures if they have sold 1 million units and only 10% of us get our $10 back that is $1 million less in dollar sales. Does not sound like much until you realise that represents just under 2% of the dollars earned. And if more than 10% get $10 and/or a lot of people return their Amazon purchase the impact could be more than enough for EA BioWare to sit up and notice.


I already did it with Best Buy.  Went and got my $10 back and picked up a bundle of blank DVDRs with it after hearing someone mention that you could do it.

At least I wound up getting SOMETHING somewhat decent out of the S#!++y game.

#168
TheTranzor

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Speakeasy13 wrote...

Vixvis wrote...

idk DA2 sold pretty fast nd got alot of great reviews,just because theres a buncha complaining PC nerds dont mean anything, as far as i know and i know this for a fact DA2 isnt the last game in the series they are gonna expand this franchise until their very last penny whether or not DA@ does good or bad.......In my Opinion this DA2 is almost better in evry aspect than DAO and is definetly the best game on the market for me right now.

I think the fact that so many of the people defending DA2 over DA:O can't even formulate a grammatically correct, properly annuciated sentence really says alot about its target audience... Really Bioware? You think they have more money to spend than us?


I love when people try to speak down to others about grammar and spelling and can't spell themselves.  Here you go genius, try a dictionary or at least spell check before trying to make fun of another person's lack of linguistic skills:

enunciated past participle, past tense of e·nun·ci·ate (Verb)

1. Say or pronounce clearly.
2. Express (something) in clear or definite terms.

Modifié par TheTranzor, 28 mars 2011 - 12:25 .


#169
planed scaped

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Dragoonlordz wrote...

What's your point? I loved ME1 yet didn't like ME2 but also disliked DA2 yet loved DA:O... so...erm, ok take that! :blink: lol


Wasn't towards you specifically. Previous posts were talking about them.

#170
Melca36

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I have no doubt there will be a DA:3


It will likely be a hybrid between the two games and they will eventually acknowledge the mistakes they made. A nd hopefully they will see that  the real market for this game is not the 21 and under male demographic.

Modifié par Melca36, 28 mars 2011 - 12:44 .


#171
NRO TYN

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Lets hope PRAY Da3 development time dosnt take lessons from Duke Nukem Forever Posted Image

Modifié par II That Burn In Ya Ass II, 28 mars 2011 - 01:06 .


#172
LanceX2

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i dont see how they can see what has gone on here and not make DA3 the way it should be. I love DA and ME and Bioware but if DA3 has same flaws as DA2...I may quit bioware :(. I have faith though

#173
Mahrdol

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I hope not. They can skip DA:3 and just make DAO:2

#174
neppakyo

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Mahrdol wrote...

I hope not. They can skip DA:3 and just make DAO:2


I'm leaning towards this option.

#175
TheTWF

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Relshar wrote...

DA:3 will start to be developed will take to long and EA will shut down BioWAre this is what usualy happens when EA takes over a company.


Is this where we pretend that the likes of Westwood and Rare were competant devs?