212 réponses à ce sujet

[Bluumberry]

Warheadz wrote...

Bluumberry wrote...

Why does everything have to be set a to specific standard or compared to something else?

Why can't you all just play a game - enjoy it or not - and shut up?

*snip*

Words can't describe how I feel about his post.

And I couldn't give a damn about your feelings.

[Otterwarden]

ExiledMimic wrote...

Sentox6 wrote...

When the goal is to sell a product, the collective opinion of some enraged forumites does not dictate success or failure.

Actually it does.  Poor reception kills the brand.  Damaging future sales and limiting long-term profit.  I doubt that's happened here, but the damage done is enough to create a little worry for future projects.  This bleeds over to ME, TOR and any new products developed.  The term "the customer is always right" isn't about short term profit.  It's about repeated sales from the customer and possitive word of mouth marketing which you cannot buy.  And it's not just forumites, as you stated.  Player reviews all over the place are sub 5/10.  Even if critics love it, tons of players dont and that damages the brand.

Spoken like a true wolf

Not to derail this good thread about the differences between why ME2 succeeded where DA2 failed, but here is an interesting read on this topic as it pertains to EA's handling of DA.  BTW, the author also played and enjoyed ME.

www.techgoondu.com/2011/03/12/commentary-dragon-age-2-and-the-wrath-of-fans/

"That is when I found out that most of the user reviews hated the game. And when you have a large segment of your fanbois who hate what you’ve done with game — in huge contrast to the mostly positive reviews given by critics — you have a big problem.

I count myself as an old school gamer who plays on a PC. In fact I laughed at friends who played the original Dragon Age: Origins on an XBox or PS3 because the isometric view didn’t exist and tactical combat would be more button mashing than planning. So I knew I would not be swayed by a more “Mass effect”-styled play of Dragon Age with more linear story lines and streamlined (read: simplified) combat."

Modifié par Otterwarden, 27 mars 2011 - 04:51 .

[TheConfidenceMan]

Apparently if you polish a turd enough even an expert might mistake it for a gem.

[VanDraegon]

XX55XX wrote...
DA2, in the meanwhile, was considered to be one of the most disappointing games of 2011

lol, seriously?  You forgot to add a IMO to your claim. 

How can you honestly make such a claim without a shred of evidence to support your statement? Angry forumites do not constitute a fact or everyone who purchased DA2. I dont claim DA2 was perfect or even an great game but to make such a claim when the game has been out all of two weeks is asinine.

[Wincer]

ME2 appeals to a much wider audience. It appeals to Bioware fans who love their games, and it also appeals to casual gamers who think it is Halo Revamped because it takes place in outer space.
DA2 is a good game in my opinion, but I have noticed that when I say I like the series people cringe thinking that it is Dungeons and Dragons.
Aside form that the romances in DA are far more book like, while in ME they are cinematic. (IE: Miranda unzipping her jumpsuit in a wide angle shot.)

[Lord_Valandil]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Because Montreal > Edmonton

That's why

/thread.

[Amyntas]

ME2 is a streamlined, high quality game. DA2 is a streamlined turd.

[Rayne Myria Solo]

Marionetten wrote...

Mass Effect never prided itself on being the spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate. In fact, it actively tried to be a more action based RPG. This is why Mass Effect 2 was considered an improvement.

Ironically, neither did DA2.

DAO claimed that, DA2 did not. They're both very different games, both very good games, they just aren't quite the same. Frankly as much as I loved DAO, I'm even happier with DA2, and I'd rather see that than a "carbon copy" style DAO game (I'm looking at you NWN2) or another "expansion" to DAO. It's time we all moved past some of the same old tired mechanics. I'd rather not spend 2 hours managing my inventory, ME1 made me do that, ME2 didn't. DAO made me do that, DA2 did not. This is lagely why I've edged away from JRPGs and into more western ones (except Bethesda, because I don't believe they make "RPGs" they just make Rockstar-style sandbox games that just "happen to have some vague story elements in them".

Bioware's on the edge of the new wave, and is pushing things in the right direction. I applaud them for the courage to do so, now if only they'd get the courage back they had for ME1s romances, and stop dropping them down every game they release, we'd be good.

It's time to get on the wave or get left behind in the surf. Let's all move forward.

[Terror_K]

It's not moving forward; it's dumbing things down, oversimplifying and moving backwards.

[Edli]

Rayne Myria Solo wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

Mass Effect never prided itself on being the spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate. In fact, it actively tried to be a more action based RPG. This is why Mass Effect 2 was considered an improvement.

Ironically, neither did DA2.

DAO claimed that, DA2 did not. They're both very different games, both very good games, they just aren't quite the same.

That's the problem. ME2 wasn't a huge change from ME1. Those who loved ME1 also loved ME2, something I can't say for the DA serie. It actually looks like DA2 was made for those who hated DA:O. Never seen so much change in a game serie in such a short time.

[Balerion84]

 Mass Effect 2 story was also better than DA2. Although it concentrated on the companions, at least it was interesting. In DA2 the story just fell apart, disjointed, you were doing something, then suddenly you were doing something else, while running around delivering things that you picked up somewhere, while doing something completely different.

As for the gameplay, ME started as action rpg, the emphasis was on action. And that got even better with ME2. DA2 action is just... uh, I don't know... tactical side is gone, mostly thanks to enemies showing up out of nowhere, so tactical positioning (which is even in the ME games) is useless.

Variety in enviroments and good overall design of enviroments unlike in DA2. DA2 design is bland, uninteresting, soulless. For ME2 they got rid of those bland planet enviroments, and made smaller, but different and interesting maps for sidequests, which helped tremendously with variety. 

There's a lot more reasons why ME2 is a great game while DA2 is a mediocre one, but I'm pretty sure it's all been already said.

[randName]

It's not the same; ME2 was a fully baked product that didn't feel rushed; it continued the story of ME1 well, without breaking the continuity (Wrex stays dead, Ashley or Kaidan stays dead) & there were few bugs, a better story, visually more appealing, better combat and so on.

I find ME2 to be a great game, while DA2 is at best mediocre.

Modifié par randName, 28 mars 2011 - 07:41 .

[ink07]

Rayne Myria Solo wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

Mass Effect never prided itself on being the spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate. In fact, it actively tried to be a more action based RPG. This is why Mass Effect 2 was considered an improvement.

Ironically, neither did DA2.

DAO claimed that, DA2 did not. They're both very different games, both very good games, they just aren't quite the same.

Yeah,  a sequel shouldn't owe something to its predecessor. DA2 might as well had been a brawler, right?

Pretty funny if you think people would've not complained had Mass Effect become a dual stick tactical shooter with a top down camera perspective, got rid of Shepard as the main character, managed to have a worst story, reuse even more assests than the first one, limit space exploration to a single planet, and somehow made it all look worse.

Modifié par ink07, 28 mars 2011 - 08:02 .

[Grey21]

TC, I agree that DA2 made some of the same changes that ME2 made yet DA2 was hated for it and ME2 rewarded (by the critics and the fans).

But not all of DA2's changes can be compaired to ME2. For example both simplified the combat system, speed it up as well and made the whole storystructure easier. This might have worked for DA2 had it not made some other changes as well.

Such as the copy/paste mentality of the maps. ME2 had unique maps for everything as they learned from their mistakes with ME1. There were less maps but atleast every side quests had its own map. In DA2 even the main qiest re-uses maps that we've seen in side quests. ME2 is a much better game (not judging about what game is an RPG) then DA2.

[OurSacrifice]

Sentox6 wrote...

Lol at "fail". We can't be certain yet, but I'd be quite surprised if this game wasn't more than profitable.

When the goal is to sell a product, the collective opinion of some enraged forumites does not dictate success or failure.

The thing that bugs me is the attitude that DA2 is somehow unique in the hatred it is receiving. I can't remember the last time a sequel's forums weren't full of vitriol and raging around release time. But certainly, the volume is probably more to do with DA2 being further out of line from people's expectations than ME2 was.

Sales are lower, review scores are lower across the board, and user reviews are literally in the pits of scores.  Word of mouth is this game is terrible and that will only cause some of those "a month after release sales" to be much much lower.

Bioware/EA traded millions of sales on a polished epic RPG for around 1 million sales on a rushed action/adventure game with little substance.

[jesE_]

DA 2 hasn't failed obviously, it's too soon for that.

Most people hate it because the judge it for what it could be and not for what it is.

[KalDurenik]

jesE_ wrote...

DA 2 hasn't failed obviously, it's too soon for that.

Most people hate it because the judge it for what it could be and not for what it is.

I judge it for what it is. You could write a book about the problems with DA2.

Hell lets say another company beside Bioware had done this game! Oh wait... No one would care at all about the game then.

Every review have alot of "but" or "if you curve your excpectations" then the game is good? Im sorry? Is that some kind of joke? The game is average at best and overpriced for the money they ask for it.

[takfar]

ME2 was fine. DA2 felt rushed and incomplete.

[Recon Member]

OP, the answear is simple.

ME 1 wans't DA:O

[Nozybidaj]

XX55XX wrote...

ME2 was considered by critics to be one of the best games of 2010.

DA2, in the meanwhile, was considered to be one of the most disappointing games of 2011.

Yet, if you think about it, both games had similar qualities:

1. Choices did not matter. There were hardly any reactive decisions in either game. Killed Elnora in ME2? Didn't matter. Do you save or kill the mages? They die regardless of whatever you choose.
2. The plots were underdeveloped in both games. ME2 focused on sidestories more than the Reaper conflict. DA2, focused on the loosely-connected endeavors of an individual while leaving a central conflict out entirely.
3. You couldn't get your comrades to talk to you whenever you wanted. It always had to be post-mission or whenever the game told you to talk to them.
4. Both games had extremely linear levels.

I can't think of anymore points, but feel free to add to this.

The ultimate question is: Why did people like ME2 more than DA2 even when both games had similar designs?

You make some good points and I agree.  I imagine the variance in review scores came down to size of advertising budget.

[InvaderErl]

Except that DA2 had a stronger marketing push than Origins so that "theory" doesn't really jive.

[Nozybidaj]

InvaderErl wrote...

Except that DA2 had a stronger marketing push than Origins so that "theory" doesn't really jive.

Really?  You have the numbers on what the size of the advertising budgets for both games was?  Interesting.

[H1natachan]

At least in ME2 you were mostly confined to the normandy, so at least going to have conversations in various parts of the ship worked. In DA2 going to a companions house imo didnt work at all. At least in ME2 when you did those side quests in other worlds the enviroments werent copy pasted like they are in DA2. In ME2 the dlc companions didnt suck.
GG Bioware in ruining a decent title -.-