212 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

Mass Effect 2 was a better game than Mass Effect, but not a better EXPERIENCE.

Dragon Age 2 was neither a better game nor a better experience than Dragon Age Origins, and I think that's part of it.

Modifié par LPPrince, 28 mars 2011 - 12:52 .

[InvaderErl]

Nozybidaj wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Except that DA2 had a stronger marketing push than Origins so that "theory" doesn't really jive.

Really?  You have the numbers on what the size of the advertising budgets for both games was?  Interesting.

I should have added a "its pretty clear" as a qualifier.

The lead-up to both games is at the very least comparable, they both had big CGI trailers, they both had a cover issue of Gameinformer, they both had TV spots, they both had release day DLC - though I don't think Origins had a launch trailer.

Additionally, they were announcing things like Dragon Age Legends and Dragon Age Redemption, DLC pushes all over the place. Advertisements were included with copies of Dead Space 2, they had the push to a million demo downloads, the push for a million impressions on Facebook - all sorts of things like that.

Yet most critical and user scores were MUCH higher for Origins than they are for DA2 and are in many places comparable to ME2 scores despite the fact that ME2 most assuredly had a stronger advertising push than Origins as well.

If your game sucks your game sucks and no amount of marketing budget can cover that up. Go ask the Force Unleashed 2 last year how all of its advertising power turned out for it in the end,

Modifié par InvaderErl, 28 mars 2011 - 01:13 .

[Nozybidaj]

InvaderErl wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Except that DA2 had a stronger marketing push than Origins so that "theory" doesn't really jive.

Really?  You have the numbers on what the size of the advertising budgets for both games was?  Interesting.

I should have added a "its pretty clear" as a qualifier.

The lead-up to both games is at the very least comparable, they both had big CGI trailers, they both had a cover issue of Gameinformer, they both had TV spots - though I don't think Origins had a launch trailer.

Additionally, they were announcing things like Dragon Age Legends and Dragon Age Redemption, DLC pushes all over the place. Advertisements were included with copies of Dead Space 2, they had the push to a million demo downloads, the push for a million impressions on Facebook - all sorts of things like that.

Yet most critical and user scores were MUCH higher for Origins than they are for DA2 and are in many places comparable to ME2 scores despite the fact that ME2 most assuredly had a stronger advertising push than Origins as well.

I see what you are saying now.  So the problem was distribution of advertising budget not size of budget.  Maybe they should have cut out all the demo's and facebook stuff and bought more ad space on the review sites.  That I agree would have increased review scores.

[InvaderErl]

And if you're going to obstinate there's no point in you even posting when I'm sure you have a perfectly good mirror to converse with.

As I said, if your game sucks your game sucks and no amount of marketing budget can cover that up.

Last year, it happened to the Force Unleashed 2, it happened to Final Fantasy 13 and 14, it happened a bit to New Vegas because of its technical issues and it seems to have happened to Dragon Age 2. Advertising does not somehow make you immune to criticism should your game actually fail to live up to the promises of said advertising.

And I think while some of the DLC pushes and the like came off as tacky, the advertising team did all they could with the game they had. They had to actually INVENT scenes for the launch trailer to make it seem more dramatic than it actually was.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 28 mars 2011 - 01:30 .

[DownyTif]

My opinion:
I don't think Mass Effect 2 was a complete better game than Mass Effect 1. There are many things I loved more in Mass Effect 1:
1- The love scene
2- The length of missions
3- The story
4- Being able to change companions armor.

Mass Effect 2 changed some things here and there, but they did it right. Ok, the love scenes were Fox attuened, the missions were not as lenghty (I found that when you were really in it, the mission ended), the story was a little less interesting (mainly because of the sequel syndrome), but still had a lot of drive in it. For the companion armors, I hated the inventory in ME1 and they did the right thing by changing it. Also, with tech upgrades and the fact that the game is not scaled on 10 years, it makes sense that companions keep their armor. Overall, they kept the same game, same graphics, same atmosphere. They just made some changes to the irritating things players and fan complained about. ME2 is really a sequel. I really enjoyed ME1 and really enjoyed ME2, can't wait for ME3 (which I won't pre-order thanks to DA2).

Now, For DA1 -> DA2, this is a different story. It is not a sequel, because the core has changed.
- Combat has changed: I understand that some though Origin was too slow, but why change the system completely? Why not adjust it like ME2 did over ME1?
- The atmosphere has changed. DA1 is like a dark fantasy story. DA2 is a flashy story. Darkspawns are laughable in DA2, they move like monkeys on steroids. This is a major change for me. Oh, Reapers are the same in ME2 (Sovereign had a better voice, but still!)
- Companions: In ME1, ME2, DA1, you can talk about a lot of things with your companions. Now it's just the essential, major change there too.
- ME1: you explore the galaxy. ME2: you still explore the galaxy, in a different way. DA1: you explore a big land. DA2: you explore a small city with one cave, one dungeon.
- ME1: many reused areas. ME2: no reused areas (after players feedback), so improvement. DA1: a few reused areas. DA2: what the hell?

I could go on. But mainly, ME2 succedded because it is a sequel in every sense, with small different things done right (maybe not perfect, but still). DA2 is failling because in no way it's a sequel. It should have been called: The Champion of Kirkwall, a fast action RPG game with oversized weapons set in the Dragon Age Universe. Because sincerly, the only relation between Origins and DA2 are:
- cameos
- the lore

Everything else is different.

That was my opinion.

EDIT: Oh and... In DA1, even if the warden did not "speak", you had a lot of options (some dependant on skills like Coercion). They replaced that with a voice and less options. I prefer no voice and more options, but that's personal. Especially when the voice is not charismatic. Shepard (both female and male) voice acting is gold in my opinion. Hawke is... empty and there a lot of moments where the tone doesn't really fit the description you chose. At that, ME2 is better, again in my opinion.

Modifié par DownyTif, 28 mars 2011 - 02:27 .

[H1natachan]

DownyTif wrote...

My opinion:
I don't think Mass Effect 2 was a complete better game than Mass Effect 1. There are many things I loved more in Mass Effect 1:
1- The love scene
2- The length of missions
3- The story
4- Being able to change companions armor.

Mass Effect 2 changed some things here and there, but they did it right. Ok, the love scenes were Fox attuened, the missions were not as lenghty (I found that when you were really in it, the mission ended), the story was a little less interesting (mainly because of the sequel syndrome), but still had a lot of drive in it. For the companion armors, I hated the inventory in ME1 and they did the right thing by changing it. Also, with tech upgrades and the fact that the game is not scaled on 10 years, it makes sense that companions keep their armor. Overall, they kept the same game, same graphics, same atmosphere. They just made some changes to the irritating things players and fan complained about. ME2 is really a sequel. I really enjoyed ME1 and really enjoyed ME2, can't wait for ME3 (which I won't pre-order thanks to DA2).

Now, For DA1 -> DA2, this is a different story. It is not a sequel, because the core has changed.
- Combat has changed: I understand that some though Origin was too slow, but why change the system completely? Why not adjust it like ME2 did over ME1?
- The atmosphere has changed. DA1 is like a dark fantasy story. DA2 is a flashy story. Darkspawns are laughable in DA2, they move like monkeys on steroids. This is a major change for me. Oh, Reapers are the same in ME2 (Sovereign had a better voice, but still!)
- Companions: In ME1, ME2, DA1, you can talk about a lot of things with your companions. Now it's just the essential, major change there too.
- ME1: you explore the galaxy. ME2: you still explore the galaxy, in a different way. DA1: you explore a big land. DA2: you explore a small city with one cave, one dungeon.
- ME1: many reused areas. ME2: no reused areas (after players feedback), so improvement. DA1: a few reused areas. DA2: what the hell?

I could go on. But mainly, ME2 succedded because it is a sequel in every sense, with small different things done right (maybe not perfect, but still). DA2 is failling because in no way it's a sequel. It should have been called: The Champion of Kirkwall, a fast action RPG game with oversized weapons set in the Dragon Age Universe. Because sincerly, the only relation between Origins and DA2 are:
- cameos
- the lore

Everything else is different.

That was my opinion.

EDIT: Oh and... In DA1, even if the warden did not "speak", you had a lot of options (some dependant on skills like Coercion). They replaced that with a voice and less options. I prefer no voice and more options, but that's personal. Especially when the voice is not charismatic. Shepard (both female and male) voice acting is gold in my opinion. Hawke is... empty and there a lot of moments where the tone doesn't really fit the description you chose. At that, ME2 is better, again in my opinion.

Exactly This ^^

[Tripedius]

Expectations and space shooters rpg's have a different, sometimes overlapping, fanbase. I for instance like the DA setting but haven't played any ME title. I thought about it, but don't like the space setting (and I kinda read the story).
But the biggest difference is that FPS-fans can be interested in rpg-shooters, but not in something with swords and elves (ofc im speaking in general).

[DarthCaine]

The ME team didn't cut corners to rush the game to cash in on the previous game's success.

The ME team improved the aspects of the previous game in every way. The DA team's goal was to make a quick buck.

You insult ME2 by saying it's like Dragon Fail 2

Modifié par DarthCaine, 28 mars 2011 - 04:28 .

[Stinkface27]

Dragon Age 2 is just like Mass Effect 2.

Uhhh..what?

They both have the number "2" in the title and they both have dialogue wheels. Yep. Basically the same game.

[Killer3000ad]

Mass Effect 2 = shooter, the changes fixed issues with the first game
Dragon Age 2 = RPG fantasy, the changes broke what worked fine

[izmirtheastarach]

I have trouble following the logic that a game failed because a bunch of self entitled whiners who make up a small minority of the fanbase had issues with it. I suspect that both Bioware and EA will decide whether it succeeded based on actual sales. Since EA sets the bar at around 2M units, and the game apparently sold 700,000 in it's first week, I'd say they have a good chance of not failing, but we'll have to wait awhile to know for sure.

[MASSter EFFECTer]

DAO-
Walking bomb- badass explosion
DA2-
Every damn thing- Why does everything explode?

[Crash_7]

Mass Effect failed for me. I can't bring myself to finish that game. I just got so bored of it. Subsequently I haven't bought ME 2 and won't be buying ME 3.

I also think it too early to declare DA 2 a failure.

[delikanli]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

I think the question isn't why DA2 failed, but why on Earth you are comparing such a mediocre game as DA2 to a genius game like ME2.

So true. You have made my day

[0x30A88]

ME2 had guns. All the CoD gamers I know won't even dare look to RPGs, however simple. ME2 might fit since it's a shooter.

[abaris]

DarthCaine wrote...

You insult ME2 by saying it's like Dragon Fail 2

Second that.

Although I'm rather glad, I played ME1 after ME2, since the first instalment had the better story - at least I felt that way.

[D1SC]

I think DA2 is pretty cool, fast action, blood, gore, good story line, fun characters. It might not be as dark or as acheivement satisfing as it's predecessor, but if you think of it as a stand alone game i think people would think it a good game.

I look at all games this way as they are different to films, eg they use mechanics and are more indepth than films, therefore new statagies are always used, even in the most closely followed sequals. Sometimes the new mechanics will improve the sequal for the better, sometimes not.

As a stand alone game DA2 is good, as a sequal to DA:O it is not so great.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Mass effect 2 isn't an rpg. Da:o was, buy da2 isn't. Bikeways expecting to switch genres while still calling it an rpg, and then is surprised by the collossal failure of da2. It's like a toy gun manufacturer decides to get on on the weapons market. They would fail because it's not their territory. Just like bioware.

-Polite

[DownyTif]

Gisle Aune wrote...

ME2 had guns. All the CoD gamers I know won't even dare look to RPGs, however simple. ME2 might fit since it's a shooter.

That's a overstatement I think. You don't know me, but I play CoD games, I love ME1 and ME2... and I LOVE BG, NWN, DAO, Civ, GalCiv2, Starcraft,etc.. It just depends on how I feel. But generaly speaking, you may have a point since ME has guns.

[Cade90]

Combat hasn't changed as much from ME1 to ME2, they just nudged it gently into another direction.

As for DA, well, let's just say Bioware took a sledge hammer and from the bloodied pulp they created DA2's combat system.

[v_ware]

LPPrince wrote...

Mass Effect 2 was a better game than Mass Effect, but not a better EXPERIENCE.

Dragon Age 2 was neither a better game nor a better experience than Dragon Age Origins, and I think that's part of it.

Exactly.

[AlexXIV]

First off, DA2 is not like ME2.

And the reason I liked ME2 better is the replayablitly. And they hid the plot holes better.

[Darth Death]

Because they took away Dragon Age's essence and made it Mass Effect (and simplified the living daylights out of it). DA:O was nothing like ME, until DA2 came.

[enhancedhpb]

The biggest similarity that DA2 has with ME2 is the conversation wheel/dialogue system.

Also, I don't get why people are saying ME1 and ME2 aren't rpg games. The ME series falls under the acton rpg or rpg shooter category. Look up the definition of role playing game if you don't think so.

Modifié par enhancedhpb, 29 mars 2011 - 02:59 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

Me1 was an rpg. Me2 is an action game/movie with very few rpg elements sprinkled in there. DA seems to be heading in that direction.

-Polite