212 réponses à ce sujet

[Haexpane]

InvaderErl wrote...

Rpgs are generally single-player experiences there's not really a way to have a competitive tournament in that regard. Even mmos like WoW are about progression and teamwork in most cases than any immediate Destroy the Enemy objective!  .

Have you ever played an MMO? Serious question.  Some of the most popular events in EQOA were the player vs. player tournies.

[Haexpane]

Solid N7 wrote...
 

I agree, but again in rpgs you only need to grind to be good.

Absolultely false.  Serious question, have you ever played an MMO?  I'm playing one right now, DCUO, no amount of gear will keep bad players from getting wiped, and good players can take on some of the hardest content without any gear.

[Solid N7]

Haexpane wrote...

Solid N7 wrote...

 
This is why hardcore rpgs fans are dumber than FPS fans, The COD and halos fans love this
kind of games for the "MULTIPLAYER" and the skill you need to win in a multiplayer match, tell me in rpgs you need skill to play? no!!!!

Check the stats when the devs choose to release them. Last stats I saw on the Halo series was LESS THAN 50% of Halo players go online at all.  IDK about CoD.

But this with all casuals that bought  a game for the hype, but FPS  "FANS" play these games for the multiplayer.

[Cade90]

Solid N7 wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Rpgs are generally single-player experiences there's not really a way to have a competitive tournament in that regard. Even mmos like WoW are about progression and teamwork in most cases than any immediate Destroy the Enemy objective!

That doesn't mean they don't require skill. They simply don't require the same type of competitive skills that those genres require.

I agree, but again in rpgs you only need to grind to be good.

Why on earth are you comparing single-player rpgs to multiplayer shooters?
Last I checked, CoD SP didn't require any skill either as you get to restart from checkpoint every time.

[Haexpane]

Solid N7 wrote...
 
But this with all casuals that bought  a game for the hype, but FPS  "FANS" play these games for the multiplayer.

We don't have any metrics on "fans" and "casuals"

[InvaderErl]

Haexpane wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...
  A CoD fan and I am assuming you are using that term to describe a hardcore FPS nut would not touch ME2 with a yard stick, 

I am not, so your hair becomes NIGOOOLUSSH GAGE!  (stuttering john melendez Jay leno show announcer voice)

My mistake, regardless I don't see the real overlap between both games aside from the fact that you shoot things in them.

Haexpane wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Rpgs
are generally single-player experiences there's not really a way to have
a competitive tournament in that regard. Even mmos like WoW are about
progression and teamwork in most cases than any immediate Destroy the
Enemy objective!  .

Have you ever played an MMO? Serious question.  Some of the most popular events in EQOA were the player vs. player tournies.

I have but I don't like to pvp. I used to be more into competitive gaming about six-ten years ago but I've since lost my thirst for fighting people on the internet, so my experience with them has largely been player vs monster.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 29 mars 2011 - 10:13 .

[Solid N7]

Haexpane wrote...

Solid N7 wrote...
 

I agree, but again in rpgs you only need to grind to be good.

Absolultely false.  Serious question, have you ever played an MMO?  I'm playing one right now, DCUO, no amount of gear will keep bad players from getting wiped, and good players can take on some of the hardest content without any gear.

True, but in rpgs if you grind you get better, I know that are players that beat difficult bosses underleved but again if you grind you have the chance to be good in the game and beat this powerful boss but in a fighting game if you are scrub you always lose to a skilled player..

[Korusus]

It's simple. Mass Effect 2 has high production values. Dragon Age 2 has qunari with horns. It's about priorities. Priorities and not cutting corners.

[Haexpane]

InvaderErl wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...
  A CoD fan and I am assuming you are using that term to describe a hardcore FPS nut would not touch ME2 with a yard stick, 

I am not, so your hair becomes NIGOOOLUSSH GAGE!  (stuttering john melendez Jay leno show announcer voice)

My mistake, regardless I don't see the real overlap between both games aside from the fact that you shoot things in them.

Well "overlap" wasn't what I was going for either.  Unless you mean people who bought both games?  I don;'t have access to those numbers.

However Bioware has gone on record stating that they absolutely want to bring in Non RPG players.  From the horses mouth.




 

[Haexpane]

InvaderErl wrote...

 

I have but I don't like to pvp. I used to be more into competitive gaming about six-ten years ago but I've since lost my thirst for fighting people on the internet.

Well even in Non PVP MMOs there are competitions for a whole bunch of stuff.  Right now I am playing DCUO, even in PVE, the competition is in how fast you can clear stuff and with what set up etc...

You can't even "grind" some stuff in DCUO. You either beat the "challenge/feat" etc.. and get the "skill points" for it or you dont.  Like "beat this boss without killing the ads he summons"   You can either do it or you cant. 100% skill/teamwork based (assuming normal gear progression).  If you grind out more gear for weeks and come back and try it again, it might be a LITTLE bit easier.

But a nice thing about DCUO is thinking outside the box will get you the feat points much faster than grinding gear will, and even if you have max gear, you are guaranteed nothing for the skill based feats. 

The point being there is a misconception that RPG players are uncompetitive sloths, when in fact they are some of the most competitive gamers I've encountered.

[Haexpane]

Solid N7 wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Solid N7 wrote...
 

I agree, but again in rpgs you only need to grind to be good.

Absolultely false.  Serious question, have you ever played an MMO?  I'm playing one right now, DCUO, no amount of gear will keep bad players from getting wiped, and good players can take on some of the hardest content without any gear.

True, but in rpgs if you grind you get better, I know that are players that beat difficult bosses underleved but again if you grind you have the chance to be good in the game and beat this powerful boss but in a fighting game if you are scrub you always lose to a skilled player..

In DCUO you can have the best gear and still lose in PVP to someone 15 levels lower.  You can have max PVE gear in DCUO and still get killed on the first boss in raids if you are as scrub.

[InvaderErl]

Haexpane wrote...

Well
"overlap" wasn't what I was going for either.  Unless you mean people
who bought both games?  I don;'t have access to those numbers.

However Bioware has gone on record stating that they absolutely want to bring in Non RPG players.  From the horses mouth.
 

A Dragon Age producer said it a year after ME2 had already been released and in reference to Dragon Age 2, let's be clear - how that comment is being applied to ME2 when Fernando Melo had nothing to do with ME2 is a bit problematic.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 29 mars 2011 - 10:37 .

[Solid N7]

Cade90 wrote...

Solid N7 wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Rpgs are generally single-player experiences there's not really a way to have a competitive tournament in that regard. Even mmos like WoW are about progression and teamwork in most cases than any immediate Destroy the Enemy objective!

That doesn't mean they don't require skill. They simply don't require the same type of competitive skills that those genres require.

I agree, but again in rpgs you only need to grind to be good.

Why on earth are you comparing single-player rpgs to multiplayer shooters?
Last I checked, CoD SP didn't require any skill either as you get to restart from checkpoint every time.

This a example of game skill







and not beating the same enemies to level up and be good in the game.

Modifié par Solid N7, 29 mars 2011 - 10:21 .

[Haexpane]

Solid N7 wrote...
 

This a example of game skill





and not beating the same enemies to level up and be good in the game.

That's not how MMO DCUO works either.  You can get to max level in 1-2 days.    Pretty much everyone you see in game is max level.

This idea that "being higher level makes your more powerful" simply does not apply.

Ditch the old school thinking about "auto attack" and "press auto attack and go watch a movie" is not how DCUO works.

Blink in this game and you are dead.

[Badger8126]

Why did ME2 do better than DA2 ? in a word "guns".
Because in ME2 you can shoot people with a gun, that's all, put guns into DA2 and it'll draw in 20% more players.

[sheppard7]

Eurypterid wrote...

I'm not sure it's really viable at this point to say DA2 'failed', but:

ME2 was the sequel to an RPG/Shooter hybrid and, while some things were streamlined and some mechanics were changed, overall it wasn't out of line with the original in the series. Look at the differences between DA:O and DA2. One of the easiest things to point to is the fact that DA2 is way more similar to ME2 than it is to DA:O.

I find myself pretty much agreeing with this post.

[Rhjh20]

Bioware wanted to cater to the GOW/ DMC crowd two mutch and in doing so the forgot ther core group of fans

[Rayne Myria Solo]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I have trouble following the logic that a game failed because a bunch of self entitled whiners who make up a small minority of the fanbase had issues with it. I suspect that both Bioware and EA will decide whether it succeeded based on actual sales. Since EA sets the bar at around 2M units, and the game apparently sold 700,000 in it's first week, I'd say they have a good chance of not failing, but we'll have to wait awhile to know for sure.

Pretty much.

As much as I've always loved the Bioware community, it's actually gotten a lot worse since EA came along (and no, that's no their fault, it's more that the community has started to show it's collective behind since then, and blame everything that they perceive as some sort of massive failure on the "EA half" of the equation. In my mind, so far, they haven't caused anything to be any worse than it already was. If they did, maybe I'd see it, I just don't. For the most part, I see it as Lord of the Rings purists complanining about the movies (expecially un-extended cuts). While I think they like the community have some vaild points, it's the pure level of nerd-rage and hate and vitriol that comes out of it that doesn't reflect well. I wonder if people who read George R.R. Marin's "Game of Thrones" will do this over the HBO miniseries (even though GRRM himself is involved I gather)? I'm sure they will. I think it's just a fandom thing.

[Rayne Myria Solo]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Mass effect 2 isn't an rpg. Da:o was, buy da2 isn't.

This right here tells me you have no idea what you're talking about, so your post is pretty well pointless. ME2 is certainly an RPG, as in DA2. Hell ME2 is more of an RPG than half of the JRPGs ever released. Just because it has guns in it doesn't make it not an RPG.

Case in point, Deus Ex, Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines. Both FPS based games, both still RPGs.

*rolls eyes* genres aren't exactly as cut and dried as they were even 5-6 years ago. Get with the program people.

[Rayne Myria Solo]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Me1 was an rpg. Me2 is an action game/movie with very few rpg elements sprinkled in there. DA seems to be heading in that direction.

-Polite

Alright then, tell me what you think "RPG elements" are, and what you think it takes to make a game an "RPG" then. We'll figure out what's wrong with you before it's over...

[Rayne Myria Solo]

neppakyo wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Me1 was an rpg. Me2 is an action game/movie with very few rpg elements sprinkled in there. DA seems to be heading in that direction.

-Polite

Yeah its sad. I never considered ME a real rpg. Just a shooter with rpg elements. Don't get me wrong, I liked ME, but I knew what it was, not a deep RPG experience, just a fun shooter with rpg-lite elements and a really good story.

Well, The Witcher 2 is coming out soon, I think I might go and pre-order that. Time to leave Bioware and invest in other worthy company's rpgs. I like how the witcher 2 is being billed as a dynamic non-linear rpg. Almost like a smack to DA2

If your luck is bad it'll end up like Oblivion, which was also billed as such, and what it ended up being was a sandbox game with "RPG elements" I prefer a good story personally, regardless of if it's linear or not. To tell a truely good story there has to be a degree of linearity. By the same token, you want to sprinkle in quests that can be done at different times, and make it appear to be less linear, that's what Bioware's ALWAYS been good at. The opposite of that approach is...Oblivion.

[Rayne Myria Solo]

bassmunkee wrote...

Has it failed? Or do you just think it failed because you don't like it? Do you even have an opinion of your own?

Exactly. I'm starting to think half the replies are just latching on to what's "currently the envogue thing" and hating it...the other half are obviously diluded.

[Rayne Myria Solo]

InvaderErl wrote...

Hardcore genre fans are stupid all around. Generally speaking of course, they're narrow minded and elitist.

I'm starting to realize this. I think as I've aged I've branched out. I tend to like games of all different genres and appriciate them for different reasons, and for the blending of genres (much like I do with music). I see what the developers tried to do with DA2, and so far at least (maybe halfway) I think they achieved what they were going for, and I'm happy with it. *Shrugs*

[Haexpane]

Rayne Myria Solo wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Mass effect 2 isn't an rpg. Da:o was, buy da2 isn't.

This right here tells me you have no idea what you're talking about, so your post is pretty well pointless. ME2 is certainly an RPG, as in DA2. Hell ME2 is more of an RPG than half of the JRPGs ever released. Just because it has guns in it doesn't make it not an RPG.

Case in point, Deus Ex, Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines. Both FPS based games, both still RPGs.

*rolls eyes* genres aren't exactly as cut and dried as they were even 5-6 years ago. Get with the program people.

You can call ME2 an RPG if you want, but even Bioware has stated they REMOVED RPG elements from ME1 in the early builds, and left them out because they liked it that way.

yes, BIOWARE THEMSELVES have gone on record, in a lot of detail, about ME2's development and how the RPG systems were first removed just to polish up the shooting, then they decided they didn't even need those RPG systems fixed at all.

So if Bioware is telling you straight up they gutted the RPG out of ME2, who are we to disagree?

[Haexpane]

Rayne Myria Solo wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Me1 was an rpg. Me2 is an action game/movie with very few rpg elements sprinkled in there. DA seems to be heading in that direction.

-Polite

Alright then, tell me what you think "RPG elements" are, and what you think it takes to make a game an "RPG" then. We'll figure out what's wrong with you before it's over...

Obviously the only thing that matters in an RPG is the story and romances
OR you are in the camp like me where when putting vidoegames in genres, we focus more on gameplay since 99% of single player Videogames have "stories" in them too and are NOT RPGs just because there is a lot of yippity yap about some big bad.