Why would the old gods call darkspawn to them to be corrupted and changed?
Supposedly they talked to the mages who turned into darkspawn. Rumors they taught them magic or blood magic and convinced them to go into the gold city. Maybe "It's a trap!"
Maybe a different take. The Dragons/Archdemons teach humans the power to be a mage and/or blood magic. They teach and/or tell them to reach the gold city knowing that entering would taint the mages. Or maybe it just awakens their old, maybe defeated power. Once the corruption takes place they call them to come and free them. Maybe their taint is what frees them.
Or are the sleeping old gods accidently calling the darkspawn in their sleep?
Possible Archdemons created Darkspawn instead of other way around?
Débuté par
Verasas
, mars 26 2011 11:20
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#2
Posté 26 mars 2011 - 11:56
Dark-sider77
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Well i wouldnt know for sure, but having the darkspawn taint allows Grey wardens to hear the call of the Old Gods eventually, even though the sleeping old gods are untainted. This is also how the Darkspawn find the Old Gods, but untainted people can't hear the call. It seems that the Old Gods are connected to the taint in some special way even before they are turned into Archdemons.
#3
Posté 26 mars 2011 - 11:59
HTTP 404
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I think old tevinter mages were trying to create an army that obeys them...thus they created darkspawn that turned on them. Just a thought. probably not right
#4
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 01:30
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HTTP 404 wrote...
I think old tevinter mages were trying to create an army that obeys them...thus they created darkspawn that turned on them. Just a thought. probably not right
I don't think so because there is obvious connection between the mages-old gods-darkspawn. The main connection is that the old gods talked to both the mages and then call the darkspawn(tainted mages) after them.
There is the possiblity that they entered the gold city through the Eluvian since it does spread the blight. Mages fool around activate something the dragons ask and they unleash the taint and scurry and breed to find or free the archdemons.
#5
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 05:43
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Verasas wrote...
HTTP 404 wrote...
I think old tevinter mages were trying to create an army that obeys them...thus they created darkspawn that turned on them. Just a thought. probably not right
I don't think so because there is obvious connection between the mages-old gods-darkspawn. The main connection is that the old gods talked to both the mages and then call the darkspawn(tainted mages) after them.
There is the possiblity that they entered the gold city through the Eluvian since it does spread the blight. Mages fool around activate something the dragons ask and they unleash the taint and scurry and breed to find or free the archdemons.
but there has to be a connection with the Old tevinter mages and the old gods and the darkspawn.
#6
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 05:45
Pileyourbodies
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No there doesn't. Just because in game lore says there is doesn't make it true. We have several conflicting stories about andraste, not all can be true.
#7
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 06:04
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Pileyourbodies wrote...
No there doesn't. Just because in game lore says there is doesn't make it true. We have several conflicting stories about andraste, not all can be true.
yah, there may not be any old gods, that could be just a myth. The Truth is Out There
#8
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 06:18
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In truth, we know practically nothing about the Darkspawn, the Old Gods or the Black City.
We know that the Darkspawn were first encountered in the Deep Roads where they appeared out of nowhere. According to the Architect they are drawn to dragon-like creatures who supposedly sing to them. The Darkspawn then supposedly corrupts these beings with their taint and are subsequently lead by them. Everything else is hearsay.
We don't know anything about the Black City, except that it's the focal point of the Fade, whatever that is.
We know that the Darkspawn were first encountered in the Deep Roads where they appeared out of nowhere. According to the Architect they are drawn to dragon-like creatures who supposedly sing to them. The Darkspawn then supposedly corrupts these beings with their taint and are subsequently lead by them. Everything else is hearsay.
We don't know anything about the Black City, except that it's the focal point of the Fade, whatever that is.
#9
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 06:26
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Well... here comes my 2 cents...
Looking at the darkspawn in general, they have the like beehive mind, so that means to me that they were ultimately created to be pawns for some purpose that requires large numbers. Now I remember something about the Lore saying that the old gods were locked underground (might have been the dalish Dread Wolf... don't really remember...) As we all know, anger and vengeance can easily corrupt you. Now you have an old god that's pretty furious and wants revenge, so it has to create an Army that can eventually free it from the underground prison... Tadaaa Darkspawn...
Just because they are Gods doesn't mean that they don't have overpowering emotions. However, I do not understand the deeper meaning of the Blight itself... What if they win? what then? It's like the old gods didn't quite think it through... or maybe I don't get it. Anyways, when it comes to the black city, I think that's a myth. nobody's ever been there. Yeah the Chantry says so, but they might have just invented that part to keep the mages in check. What if magic is actually this "essence of an old god" that everybody keeps talking about...
Also according to the game the only thing that blood magic and deals with demons promotes is desire. You don't need to be a darkspawn to be corrupted, just look at Tevinter.
But that might be a little off topic... Is there any lore on how a mage actually turned into a darkspawn? I mean physically?
Looking at the darkspawn in general, they have the like beehive mind, so that means to me that they were ultimately created to be pawns for some purpose that requires large numbers. Now I remember something about the Lore saying that the old gods were locked underground (might have been the dalish Dread Wolf... don't really remember...) As we all know, anger and vengeance can easily corrupt you. Now you have an old god that's pretty furious and wants revenge, so it has to create an Army that can eventually free it from the underground prison... Tadaaa Darkspawn...
Just because they are Gods doesn't mean that they don't have overpowering emotions. However, I do not understand the deeper meaning of the Blight itself... What if they win? what then? It's like the old gods didn't quite think it through... or maybe I don't get it. Anyways, when it comes to the black city, I think that's a myth. nobody's ever been there. Yeah the Chantry says so, but they might have just invented that part to keep the mages in check. What if magic is actually this "essence of an old god" that everybody keeps talking about...
Also according to the game the only thing that blood magic and deals with demons promotes is desire. You don't need to be a darkspawn to be corrupted, just look at Tevinter.
But that might be a little off topic... Is there any lore on how a mage actually turned into a darkspawn? I mean physically?
#10
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 06:34
Demx
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HTTP 404 wrote...
Pileyourbodies wrote...
No there doesn't. Just because in game lore says there is doesn't make it true. We have several conflicting stories about andraste, not all can be true.
yah, there may not be any old gods, that could be just a myth. The Truth is Out There
I like to pretend the old gods are the Creators that the Maker has imprisoned. After being enslaved for so long the elves could no longer hear the cries of their creators, and the Creators began to beckon for someone else to free them. The original mages that were cast down from the Black City. I know it's full of inconsistencies, but I like the idea nevertheless.
#11
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 06:49
Eva1346
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Siradix wrote...
HTTP 404 wrote...
Pileyourbodies wrote...
No there doesn't. Just because in game lore says there is doesn't make it true. We have several conflicting stories about andraste, not all can be true.
yah, there may not be any old gods, that could be just a myth. The Truth is Out There
I like to pretend the old gods are the Creators that the Maker has imprisoned. After being enslaved for so long the elves could no longer hear the cries of their creators, and the Creators began to beckon for someone else to free them. The original mages that were cast down from the Black City. I know it's full of inconsistencies, but I like the idea nevertheless.
I like that theory.
#12
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 06:58
Emperor Iaius I
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Unless things have changed, the theory is untrue. A long time ago, Mr. Gaider said that the Old Gods were not the same as the elven gods, and that they were alien entities, neither creators nor created.
Also, doesn't Awakenings contradict this theory? Urthemiel didn't become corrupted until the Architect messed up. The Old Gods cannot have created the darkspawn.
Indeed, it's the Maker who created them, in his jealousy for the Old Gods and the love that humanity had for them. he turned the magisters into these wretched things because they wouldn't worship him, and turned them lose on their masters forever perverting those beautiful ancient dragons into monsters that would be slain by their own followers.
It is a tragedy beyond measure. Now there are only two left, excluding the potential god baby.
Also, doesn't Awakenings contradict this theory? Urthemiel didn't become corrupted until the Architect messed up. The Old Gods cannot have created the darkspawn.
Indeed, it's the Maker who created them, in his jealousy for the Old Gods and the love that humanity had for them. he turned the magisters into these wretched things because they wouldn't worship him, and turned them lose on their masters forever perverting those beautiful ancient dragons into monsters that would be slain by their own followers.
It is a tragedy beyond measure. Now there are only two left, excluding the potential god baby.
#13
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 07:02
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Emperor Iaius I wrote...
Unless things have changed, the theory is untrue. A long time ago, Mr. Gaider said that the Old Gods were not the same as the elven gods, and that they were alien entities, neither creators nor created.
Also, doesn't Awakenings contradict this theory? Urthemiel didn't become corrupted until the Architect messed up. The Old Gods cannot have created the darkspawn.
Indeed, it's the Maker who created them, in his jealousy for the Old Gods and the love that humanity had for them. he turned the magisters into these wretched things because they wouldn't worship him, and turned them lose on their masters forever perverting those beautiful ancient dragons into monsters that would be slain by their own followers.
It is a tragedy beyond measure. Now there are only two left, excluding the potential god baby.
What part of pretend and full of inconsistencies did you not get?
#14
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 07:06
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Ah, sorry. The first paragraph was addressed to your theory, to be informative, while the rest of the post is addressed to the OP's theory. I should have been clearer, apologies.
#15
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 07:11
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according to the dalish, there were two factions of gods, the ones who created the world, and then evil gods. one god, known as the dread wolf or fen'harel or the trickster, played both sides. the dread wolf convinced each side that the other had forged an all-powerful weapon to defeat the other once and for all, but asked for time to work out a truce. in the end, he betrayed both sides and sealed all the gods away forever. it is theorized that this one singular remaining god is the one the chantry mistakenly refers to as the maker, though the chantry argues that only one god has ever existed.
the only known origin story of darkspawn is according to the chantry, which says the ancient tevinter mages opened a portal to the gold city. this offended the maker, and so he turned them all into darkspawn and sent them back into our world.
supposedly, the ancient tevinter imperium worshipped the old gods and could hear their calls which commanded them to fight against the god that the chantry knows as the maker, hence why they tried to enter the gold city.
darkspawn continue to hear this call, and, as the architect explains, they are trying to attain a perfection they can never have. they keep trying to free the old gods, but their taint spreads to the old god whenever they find one, corrupting it and, when slain by a grey warden, both souls try to inhabit the same space and both are annihilated.
my theory: if you take all the lore and throw it together, it's possible that the maker really is the dread wolf and, through corrupting the tevinter mages that broke into the gold city, is using them to corrupt and destroy the old gods he sealed away.
furthermore, this means that if the dark ritual is carried out, the fifth blight is not exactly over because the soul of the old god, while cleansed of the taint, is not destroyed. i've wondered if flemeth is the result of a dark ritual herself.
the main thing that doesn't fit is there are a total of 8 gods apart from the dread wolf according to the dalish, but according to the tevinters there were 7 old gods not including the chantry's maker. so there's one missing.
the only known origin story of darkspawn is according to the chantry, which says the ancient tevinter mages opened a portal to the gold city. this offended the maker, and so he turned them all into darkspawn and sent them back into our world.
supposedly, the ancient tevinter imperium worshipped the old gods and could hear their calls which commanded them to fight against the god that the chantry knows as the maker, hence why they tried to enter the gold city.
darkspawn continue to hear this call, and, as the architect explains, they are trying to attain a perfection they can never have. they keep trying to free the old gods, but their taint spreads to the old god whenever they find one, corrupting it and, when slain by a grey warden, both souls try to inhabit the same space and both are annihilated.
my theory: if you take all the lore and throw it together, it's possible that the maker really is the dread wolf and, through corrupting the tevinter mages that broke into the gold city, is using them to corrupt and destroy the old gods he sealed away.
furthermore, this means that if the dark ritual is carried out, the fifth blight is not exactly over because the soul of the old god, while cleansed of the taint, is not destroyed. i've wondered if flemeth is the result of a dark ritual herself.
the main thing that doesn't fit is there are a total of 8 gods apart from the dread wolf according to the dalish, but according to the tevinters there were 7 old gods not including the chantry's maker. so there's one missing.
#16
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 07:15
Emperor Iaius I
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As I just said, the elven gods and the Old Gods are not the same. It's an attractive theory (one I had liked before) but as far as we know right now, untrue.
Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 27 mars 2011 - 07:15 .
#17
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 07:26
Eva1346
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i love lamp x3 wrote...
according to the dalish, there were two factions of gods, the ones who created the world, and then evil gods. one god, known as the dread wolf or fen'harel or the trickster, played both sides. the dread wolf convinced each side that the other had forged an all-powerful weapon to defeat the other once and for all, but asked for time to work out a truce. in the end, he betrayed both sides and sealed all the gods away forever. it is theorized that this one singular remaining god is the one the chantry mistakenly refers to as the maker, though the chantry argues that only one god has ever existed.
the only known origin story of darkspawn is according to the chantry, which says the ancient tevinter mages opened a portal to the gold city. this offended the maker, and so he turned them all into darkspawn and sent them back into our world.
supposedly, the ancient tevinter imperium worshipped the old gods and could hear their calls which commanded them to fight against the god that the chantry knows as the maker, hence why they tried to enter the gold city.
darkspawn continue to hear this call, and, as the architect explains, they are trying to attain a perfection they can never have. they keep trying to free the old gods, but their taint spreads to the old god whenever they find one, corrupting it and, when slain by a grey warden, both souls try to inhabit the same space and both are annihilated.
my theory: if you take all the lore and throw it together, it's possible that the maker really is the dread wolf and, through corrupting the tevinter mages that broke into the gold city, is using them to corrupt and destroy the old gods he sealed away.
furthermore, this means that if the dark ritual is carried out, the fifth blight is not exactly over because the soul of the old god, while cleansed of the taint, is not destroyed. i've wondered if flemeth is the result of a dark ritual herself.
the main thing that doesn't fit is there are a total of 8 gods apart from the dread wolf according to the dalish, but according to the tevinters there were 7 old gods not including the chantry's maker. so there's one missing.
Yeah I also thought that the dread wolf might be the maker, which would also explain why the Dalish were hunted down when they lived in the dales (Sarel speaks of a "great crusade")
Especially because the ancient elves had eluvians all along...
Interesting theory about flemeth too... How else would she have known of such a ritual... or she might have done it before... In DA2 when she saves Hawke and you tell her that you want to turn into a dragon, she says something like: "maybe I am a dragon."
#18
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 07:36
i love lamp x3
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Emperor Iaius I wrote...
As I just said, the elven gods and the Old Gods are not the same. It's an attractive theory (one I had liked before) but as far as we know right now, untrue.
yeah i saw that you or whoever said david gaider said they were different. but if that's the case then dalish mythology is completely untrue. we know for sure the old gods were real. so it's either that the dalish are full of it, even though their mirrors are very firmly tied in with the ancient tevinter emperium, or there were nearly 20 gods. i guess it's nearly impossible to pick apart now considering da:a and da2 didn't answer any questions, just raised more. well except for "how is flemeth alive after i killed her??" though apart from some elven ritual we don't have any details. also the fact that the elven ritual is what brings flemeth back makes me reluctant in believing they are totally wrong about everything
Modifié par i love lamp x3, 27 mars 2011 - 07:40 .
#19
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 08:00
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I. I have no problem with the elves being full of it.
II. Why would the existence of the Old Gods mean the non-existence of the Elvhen Pantheon? Just because the stories seem similar doesn't mean they were both about the same thing. "Neither creators nor created" would seem to imply that there WERE Creators. Of course, I learned the Gaider quote second hand so it's possible that those weren't his exact words, so I don't want to put words into his mouth--but I can only draw conclusions from what I know.
II. Why would the existence of the Old Gods mean the non-existence of the Elvhen Pantheon? Just because the stories seem similar doesn't mean they were both about the same thing. "Neither creators nor created" would seem to imply that there WERE Creators. Of course, I learned the Gaider quote second hand so it's possible that those weren't his exact words, so I don't want to put words into his mouth--but I can only draw conclusions from what I know.
Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 27 mars 2011 - 08:02 .
#20
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 08:33
i love lamp x3
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haha in a game world though, it seems unlikely they'd give us so much info about the elves if they didn't have some relevance apart from i guess the novelty involved with meeting a new culture
and the known existence of the old gods means that the elves are wrong and the chantry is wrong or that all three could have some truth. based on what we know from in-game dialogue and codex entries, combining them to a degree makes a certain amount of sense
"'Neither creators nor created' would seem to imply that there WERE Creators."
i don't understand this part
this is why i'm atheist in real life lol
and the known existence of the old gods means that the elves are wrong and the chantry is wrong or that all three could have some truth. based on what we know from in-game dialogue and codex entries, combining them to a degree makes a certain amount of sense
"'Neither creators nor created' would seem to imply that there WERE Creators."
i don't understand this part
this is why i'm atheist in real life lol
Modifié par i love lamp x3, 27 mars 2011 - 08:36 .
#21
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 08:40
Eva1346
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i love lamp x3 wrote...
haha in a game world though, it seems unlikely they'd give us so much info about the elves if they didn't have some relevance apart from i guess the novelty involved with meeting a new culture
and the known existence of the old gods means that the elves are wrong and the chantry is wrong or that all three could have some truth. based on what we know from in-game dialogue and codex entries, combining them to a degree makes a certain amount of sense
"'Neither creators nor created' would seem to imply that there WERE Creators."
i don't understand this part
this is why i'm atheist in real life lol
like Merrill and Sebastian discuss in the party banter:
- Sebastian: So what do you believe, Merrill?
- Merrill: Our gods abandoned us long ago. They haven't answered our prayers since the fall of Arlathan.
- Merrill: When we've proven that we're elves again, that we didn't lose everything, they'll come back to us.
- Sebastian: We say the same of the Maker.
- Sebastian: Perhaps they're only different names for the same divine force that created the world.
- Merrill: The Maker wants you to be elves?
Maybe the creators are The Protheans hahahahahahahaha!!!!!
Modifié par Eva1346, 27 mars 2011 - 08:44 .
#22
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 08:41
Verasas
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Emperor Iaius I wrote...
Unless things have changed, the theory is untrue. A long time ago, Mr. Gaider said that the Old Gods were not the same as the elven gods, and that they were alien entities, neither creators nor created.
Also, doesn't Awakenings contradict this theory? Urthemiel didn't become corrupted until the Architect messed up. The Old Gods cannot have created the darkspawn.
Indeed, it's the Maker who created them, in his jealousy for the Old Gods and the love that humanity had for them. he turned the magisters into these wretched things because they wouldn't worship him, and turned them lose on their masters forever perverting those beautiful ancient dragons into monsters that would be slain by their own followers.
It is a tragedy beyond measure. Now there are only two left, excluding the potential god baby.
How do we know that there isn't always a Achitect type that taints dragons? How do you know the taint isn't their true form and normal dragon is just their sleeping depowered state?
The Forgotten gods are not the elven gods., they battled the forgotten gods. Both sides were tricked and locked away by the dread wolf.
#23
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 02:28
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I think you can have the explanation at the begining of DA:O.
"The hubris of men" The tevinter mages found away into the golden city thus corrupting it with their greed, pride, rage etc. Thus, the first darkspawn where born... the arch demon are old gods , I guess they want to be in the seat of power again. We have to remember however, that the blight was not something that was Always there, it started how long ago? and every how many years it happends?
"The hubris of men" The tevinter mages found away into the golden city thus corrupting it with their greed, pride, rage etc. Thus, the first darkspawn where born... the arch demon are old gods , I guess they want to be in the seat of power again. We have to remember however, that the blight was not something that was Always there, it started how long ago? and every how many years it happends?
