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What we miss from ME1 :( *Now with a group of over 140 members!* *We have reached over 40 pages!* *Now with poll!*


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#551
wizardryforever

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Fixers0 wrote...

snide post snipped


Well you just kinda proved my point.  ME2 really wasn't so different now was it, if all you had to do was replace some pictures (and a few choice words) to say the same thing.  These things are not missing from the game, that was the point I was making, not that ME2 had these things while ME1 did not.  There is no reason to believe that anything that has been posted (aside from some outdated gameplay) is gone forever.  So moaning about missing these things in a dramatic fashion is premature.  My post was satire of all of the ridiculous things that people "miss," as though they're gone forever. :pinched:

#552
Ahglock

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wizardryforever wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

snide post snipped


Well you just kinda proved my point.  ME2 really wasn't so different now was it, if all you had to do was replace some pictures (and a few choice words) to say the same thing.  These things are not missing from the game, that was the point I was making, not that ME2 had these things while ME1 did not.  There is no reason to believe that anything that has been posted (aside from some outdated gameplay) is gone forever.  So moaning about missing these things in a dramatic fashion is premature.  My post was satire of all of the ridiculous things that people "miss," as though they're gone forever. :pinched:


The feeling of the setting changed a bit IMO. Despite the claims that ME2 would be a darker chapter, it was a much lighter and fluffier chapter.  It was unicorns and rainbows in comparison, the few "dark" parts were so cartoony evil they didn't come across as dark to me.  Well overlord was dark, I am not sure a single DLC is enough to change the feeling of the ME2 setting.  TIM as a compex antogonist and the rest kind of work, but he is more fith element Zorg antagonist vs blade runners Roy Batty antagonist.  Sure they are both complex, sure both setting looked awesome, but they had a disticntly different feel to them.  Some people miss the original feel.  

#553
wizardryforever

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Ahglock wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

snide post snipped


Well you just kinda proved my point.  ME2 really wasn't so different now was it, if all you had to do was replace some pictures (and a few choice words) to say the same thing.  These things are not missing from the game, that was the point I was making, not that ME2 had these things while ME1 did not.  There is no reason to believe that anything that has been posted (aside from some outdated gameplay) is gone forever.  So moaning about missing these things in a dramatic fashion is premature.  My post was satire of all of the ridiculous things that people "miss," as though they're gone forever. :pinched:


The feeling of the setting changed a bit IMO. Despite the claims that ME2 would be a darker chapter, it was a much lighter and fluffier chapter.  It was unicorns and rainbows in comparison, the few "dark" parts were so cartoony evil they didn't come across as dark to me.  Well overlord was dark, I am not sure a single DLC is enough to change the feeling of the ME2 setting.  TIM as a compex antogonist and the rest kind of work, but he is more fith element Zorg antagonist vs blade runners Roy Batty antagonist.  Sure they are both complex, sure both setting looked awesome, but they had a disticntly different feel to them.  Some people miss the original feel.  

Well I could argue this point until I fell asleep from exhaustion, but I won't.  Suffice to say that I disagree, but I realize my opinion is no more valid than yours is.  Regardless, there's no way of knowing if these things are truly gone until ME3 is complete.  Missing them is premature if they are, and unwarranted if they aren't, that's all I'm saying.

#554
Ahglock

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wizardryforever wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

snide post snipped


Well you just kinda proved my point.  ME2 really wasn't so different now was it, if all you had to do was replace some pictures (and a few choice words) to say the same thing.  These things are not missing from the game, that was the point I was making, not that ME2 had these things while ME1 did not.  There is no reason to believe that anything that has been posted (aside from some outdated gameplay) is gone forever.  So moaning about missing these things in a dramatic fashion is premature.  My post was satire of all of the ridiculous things that people "miss," as though they're gone forever. :pinched:


The feeling of the setting changed a bit IMO. Despite the claims that ME2 would be a darker chapter, it was a much lighter and fluffier chapter.  It was unicorns and rainbows in comparison, the few "dark" parts were so cartoony evil they didn't come across as dark to me.  Well overlord was dark, I am not sure a single DLC is enough to change the feeling of the ME2 setting.  TIM as a compex antogonist and the rest kind of work, but he is more fith element Zorg antagonist vs blade runners Roy Batty antagonist.  Sure they are both complex, sure both setting looked awesome, but they had a disticntly different feel to them.  Some people miss the original feel.  

Well I could argue this point until I fell asleep from exhaustion, but I won't.  Suffice to say that I disagree, but I realize my opinion is no more valid than yours is.  Regardless, there's no way of knowing if these things are truly gone until ME3 is complete.  Missing them is premature if they are, and unwarranted if they aren't, that's all I'm saying.


Well the point is they missed them in the past tense in ME2.  They did feel the difference.  They would like them to return to ME3.  I am a bit up in the air about it.  While I felt they were different in style by a quite a bit, I like both styles.  If they shifted back to the ME1 style in setting feel, I might miss the things in ME2 that I liked.  Like I prefer the big hollywood explosions to the more realsitic looking ones.  

#555
Ghost Warrior

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Ahglock wrote...

Some people miss the original feel.  

Yes,and I am one of them. ME2 is an awesome game,but something is missing,although I don't know what it is.

#556
lolwut666

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The only thing darker the first game had were the visuals.

#557
CroGamer002

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Ghost Warrior wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Some people miss the original feel.  

Yes,and I am one of them. ME2 is an awesome game,but something is missing,although I don't know what it is.


I know what is missing.









Actually I don't. Never mind.

#558
Fixers0

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Mesina2 wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Some people miss the original feel.  

Yes,and I am one of them. ME2 is an awesome game,but something is missing,although I don't know what it is.


I know what is missing.









Actually I don't. Never mind.


I know it!!!, i know it!!!.

The feel of Immersion, the sense of a new living universe and a vast Galaxy that lies open to be explored. 

#559
SNascimento

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The feel of Immersion, the sense of a new living universe and a vast Galaxy that lies open to be explored.
.
This feel is in ME2.

#560
Ahglock

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I really hate the term immersion now, it has just become a crap buzzword. When looking at the optics of ME1 and ME2 we should take a holistic approach when determining seamless immersion benefits of the two without requiring an infrastructure that would be boiling the ocean.

#561
Fixers0

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wizardryforever wrote...

Well you just kinda proved my point.  ME2 really wasn't so different now was it, if all you had to do was replace some pictures (and a few choice words) to say the same thing.  These things are not missing from the game, that was the point I was making, not that ME2 had these things while ME1 did not.  There is no reason to believe that anything that has been posted (aside from some outdated gameplay) is gone forever.  So moaning about missing these things in a dramatic fashion is premature.  My post was satire of all of the ridiculous things that people "miss," as though they're gone forever. :pinched:


No, not really, you have make good points, but my point is, that for all of those points Mass effect 1 holds superior elements over Mass Effect 2,

Now to make it clear, i don 't want to start a debate over these points, i will just give you my point of view on them.

The Characters.

When a story has characters in it, they should be recognized by two things, who they are and what they do in the story, now the characters in Mass Effect 1 had more of latter then the former, while Mass Effect 2 was the other way around.

One of the problems  is that in Mass effect 1 the Characters expressed their personality  throughout the main story, with almost every dialoguem, while in Mass Effect 2 it only happens sporadically , this could caused by the high amount of Characters in comparison the Mass effect 1.
The Real problem is that in Mass Effect 1 the Characters weren't the main focus of the story, so they didn't really need large background stories, but in Mass Effect 2 the Characters a clearly the most important of the story, but yet the Characters don't appear in the plot until the very end of the game and even then some of them are interchangeable with other characters.

The Antagonist.

This is a difficult one, i do agree that TIM is actual Antagonist, as both Harbinger and the Collector general are almost invisable in the story, the there is, is that Narative never gives proper exposition on this, almost nowhere was there any development or depth added to his characters, at the end of the game, my conclusion about him is that he is a giant jerk who is sitting on a chair, and that smokes alot.

Really that's TIM for me.

The Darker tone.

The tone has always been a major problem for me, there are some attempts to make it dark but most of the come off as cheap and too cliched to be really impact that athmosphere of the game, they make it  look like dark, they make it  sound dark but it doesn't feel dark or  very inspirening.

another point that i disliked with the tone is the lack of a serious setting there are no real cosequentions or deep meaning to events, rather then a serious journey throughout the Galaxy, we get a teenage scouting adventure.

Cutscenes

Not much to say here on both games the animaters did a great job on the Cutscene,  yet the Mass Effect 1 cutscene's felt like a real contiunation of the gameplay, were as the Mass effect 2 cutscenes felt as a means to seperate story from gameplay and that are created just to progress the story.

Enemies.

Again not very much, still i do think that in terms of orginalty or actual ai, the enemies are much more restricted, almost all enemies are mercs and almost enemies have the same fighting style, in Mass effect 1 the AI was a lot more 'free' in their combat strategy.

Skill trees

At first i really liked the shorter skills trees and bigger impact of each point in gameplay, but i later started thinking that we lost and whole culture of investing in the skills that you wan't to use.

The Endgame

Sorry, but the Endgame sequence isn't halve as interesting or epic then the one of Mass Effect 1, the primary reasoning behind this is because the scene is too quarantied and because the plot did not develop to that point which is because the lacked any depth.

The Suicide mission can be epic, but only at that moment when you play it for the first or second time, its actually a walk in the park with gameplay values determing what's going happen next in the story, and when you finished it absolutly had no impact on the rest of the universe, it would be better if the game had finished at the of the SM and would contiue when Arrival or Lair of the Shadow broker were installed.

DLC

For both games the DLC's are nice expanison, so nothing to tell here.

Vehicle

Both vehicles had there up's and downs, so again not much to tell here

 

Modifié par Fixers0, 16 avril 2011 - 08:32 .


#562
Fixers0

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SNascimento wrote...

The feel of Immersion, the sense of a new living universe and a vast Galaxy that lies open to be explored.
.
This feel is in ME2.


Are you sure, because for me it felt like a computer generated cheap holy-wood action style crap aimed at mainstream gamers.

#563
SNascimento

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Fixers0 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

The feel of Immersion, the sense of a new living universe and a vast Galaxy that lies open to be explored.
.
This feel is in ME2.


Are you sure, because for me it felt like a computer generated cheap holy-wood action style crap aimed at mainstream gamers.


.
Your loss. 

#564
wolfennights

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What is this? Nostalgia over a six year old game?

#565
Fixers0

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SNascimento wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

The feel of Immersion, the sense of a new living universe and a vast Galaxy that lies open to be explored.
.
This feel is in ME2.


Are you sure, because for me it felt like a computer generated cheap holy-wood action style crap aimed at mainstream gamers.


.
Your loss. 


Because of What?

Mass Effect 2 i a very great game , it's very enjoyable and the overall presentaion of the game very well done.

But the magic and vastness that Made the Orginal game unique is gone, this foremost reasoning is, that game was mainstreamed to appeal to larger amount of gamers and that  because of that numerous  Retcons throughout the Expostion in the plot damage the overal athmosphere an believablity of what's going on.

#566
wizardryforever

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wolfennights wrote...

What is this? Nostalgia over a six year old game?


Pretty much.  Most of this "missing" of stuff is still there in ME2, and what isn't there could very well be in ME3, so the whole point of this thread seems to be reminiscing about the good old days when things were cool and deep, not like today's shallow materialistic world run by hollywood and big business.

Was that sarcasm?  Oh yes, I think it was.

#567
Harmless Crunch

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Wow I didn't expect my thread to turn into a disscusion on the defintion of nostalgia over night......
Any way you all bring up intresting points.
But wizadryforever if you feel that this thread shouldn't be about what we miss from ME1 what would you recomend as a new name for this thread?

#568
jethead

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wizardryforever - if you think some thread is pointless don't post in it.
things changed from me1 to me2. the feel of the universe and the storytelling especially. this thread is to recall those things we liked in me1, that were gone in me2, and that we would like to see again in me3. if you cannot think of anything you miss from me1 - just carry on.
but don't tell people that since you don't miss anything from me1, there's nothing to miss.
it's as silly as going to some "companion fanbase" thread to diss that companion. makes you look like an ass. especially if you go for "Was that sarcasm? Oh yes, I think it was." kind of tone.

#569
Harmless Crunch

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wolfennights wrote...

What is this? Nostalgia over a six year old game?


So how long does it have to be to warrant nostalgia?
Imo 6 years is more than enough.
If I have fond memories of my holiday to London 6 months ago and I often think about then does that not count as nostalgai?

#570
wizardryforever

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Harmless Crunch wrote...

Wow I didn't expect my thread to turn into a disscusion on the defintion of nostalgia over night......
Any way you all bring up intresting points.
But wizadryforever if you feel that this thread shouldn't be about what we miss from ME1 what would you recomend as a new name for this thread?


How about something like: "Things from ME1 that we would like to see in ME3"?  That would sum up nicely what you're trying to do.

As for the other guy who thinks I'm dissing ME1.  I'm not.  My own opinion about the way the Mass Effect universe is changing is not what I came to share.  I wanted to illustrate how this thread started out okay, but has quickly become rather ridiculous, as some of the people seem to think that a certain game had only good things, and that the other game had only bad things.  Missing things that are not gone (yet, if ever), seems to rather derail what this thread is supposed to be about, from the OP's own admission.

I tend to get heated when discussing people who have sequelitis and don't realize it.  And trust me, I'm nothing compared to most people who get heated on the subject.  Take that how you will.

#571
wizardryforever

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Harmless Crunch wrote...

wolfennights wrote...

What is this? Nostalgia over a six year old game?


So how long does it have to be to warrant nostalgia?
Imo 6 years is more than enough.
If I have fond memories of my holiday to London 6 months ago and I often think about then does that not count as nostalgai?

I don't think length of time matters.  Nostalgia is characterized by looking back in the past and only seeing the good parts, while glazing over the bad.  I actually tried to create a thread on the subject a while back, when it got derailed (in only a few pages) then went on for 30 something pages before being locked.  Apparently people hate admitting to nostalgia on this forum.  If you care to find that thread, do a search on "Rose colored glasses."

#572
Polliot

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Fixers0 wrote...

Cutscenes

Not much to say here on both games the animaters did a great job on the Cutscene,  yet the Mass Effect 1 cutscene's felt like a real contiunation of the gameplay, were as the Mass effect 2 cutscenes felt as a means to seperate story from gameplay and that are created just to progress the story.

Very much this.In ME2,there are so many cutscenes that either don't make sense or simply feel forced.Few examples:

- in Arrival,right after you discover that Kenson is indoctrinated,she makes run for it and Shepard shoots a couple of rounds,but misses each and he is supposed to be a super-soldier. And in one of the following cutscenes,Shep talks to Kenson and she walks away but doesn't start shooting,or even pull a gun for that matter

- Samara's recruitment and loyalty missions.She uses powers that she does not posses during gameplay.

- Jack has the same problem as Samara.When you first see her,she destroys two heavy mech using her biotics,and she does it fast and easy while during gameplay she can't even handle one heavy mech,not even remotely.

- during LotSB,after Shep and that asari Spectre fall,the Spectre starts running and your teammates just watch.They don't chase her,they don't shoot at her,they just watch.

There are many many many others,but I just don't feel like writing them.In ME1,I can't remember anything like that ever happened.Not once

#573
Fhaileas

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wizardryforever wrote...

Harmless Crunch wrote...

wolfennights wrote...

What is this? Nostalgia over a six year old game?


So how long does it have to be to warrant nostalgia?
Imo 6 years is more than enough.
If I have fond memories of my holiday to London 6 months ago and I often think about then does that not count as nostalgai?

I don't think length of time matters.  Nostalgia is characterized by looking back in the past and only seeing the good parts, while glazing over the bad.  I actually tried to create a thread on the subject a while back, when it got derailed (in only a few pages) then went on for 30 something pages before being locked.  Apparently people hate admitting to nostalgia on this forum.  If you care to find that thread, do a search on "Rose colored glasses."


You are conflating nostalgia with the phrase "rose colored glasses"; they are "related" but not similar; trhe former having a positive connotation vis-a-vis the latter. The idea behind "rose colored glasses" is that your perception is being altered, and that you aren't seeing things as they truly are. If you're "looking back through rose colored glasses," it means that you're not seeing clearly, with the implication that time has tricked your memory, making the past seem better than it actually was. You only see the good stuff through the rose colored glasses. So this is a neat turn of phrase, a patronizingly flippant dismissal of any fond feelings for ME1, erroneously of course since it is still being actively played by individuals like me who hail it be superior to its successor in every possible way. Our basis for comparision therefore is not marred by selective memory.

Furthermore, nostalgia isn't the sort of "false consciousness" you described. It's the pleasure that comes from remembering; playing a game (in this case ME1) and deriving some of the pleasure from the play-experience evoking memories of previous times playing this game. Individuals like me who perfer ME1 to ME2 will obviously nostalgize over the greater pleasure we derived from our experience playing ME1 compared to its dull and uninspired sequel.

#574
wizardryforever

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Fhaileas wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Harmless Crunch wrote...

wolfennights wrote...

What is this? Nostalgia over a six year old game?


So how long does it have to be to warrant nostalgia?
Imo 6 years is more than enough.
If I have fond memories of my holiday to London 6 months ago and I often think about then does that not count as nostalgai?

I don't think length of time matters.  Nostalgia is characterized by looking back in the past and only seeing the good parts, while glazing over the bad.  I actually tried to create a thread on the subject a while back, when it got derailed (in only a few pages) then went on for 30 something pages before being locked.  Apparently people hate admitting to nostalgia on this forum.  If you care to find that thread, do a search on "Rose colored glasses."


You are conflating nostalgia with the phrase "rose colored glasses"; they are "related" but not similar; trhe former having a positive connotation vis-a-vis the latter. The idea behind "rose colored glasses" is that your perception is being altered, and that you aren't seeing things as they truly are. If you're "looking back through rose colored glasses," it means that you're not seeing clearly, with the implication that time has tricked your memory, making the past seem better than it actually was. You only see the good stuff through the rose colored glasses. So this is a neat turn of phrase, a patronizingly flippant dismissal of any fond feelings for ME1, erroneously of course since it is still being actively played by individuals like me who hail it be superior to its successor in every possible way. Our basis for comparision therefore is not marred by selective memory.

Furthermore, nostalgia isn't the sort of "false consciousness" you described. It's the pleasure that comes from remembering; playing a game (in this case ME1) and deriving some of the pleasure from the play-experience evoking memories of previous times playing this game. Individuals like me who perfer ME1 to ME2 will obviously nostalgize over the greater pleasure we derived from our experience playing ME1 compared to its dull and uninspired sequel.

Oh, and your whole post isn't patronizingly flippant?

And like I said, nostalgia is something that people treat as some horrible condition that they would never admit to being afflicted with.  Nostalgia is not bad.  I feel nostalgia every time I play ME1, and is the main reason I even play ME1 anymore.  There is no shame in feelings of nostalgia.  I just find it rather irritating when people claim that X game/movie/book in the past was so much better than what we have nowadays like it is an objective statement, then act offended at the implication that nostalgia was coloring their viewpoint.  That's all really, whether you agree with my opinion or not, nostalgia affects everyone to some degree, and is a major cause of sequelitis.

#575
theSteeeeels

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i played me1 for the first time 4 months ago and totally loved it so i bought me2 straight after, and it was ridiculously bad. so no nostalgia here. just a good game and a bad game

Modifié par theSteeeeels, 17 avril 2011 - 12:25 .