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[Evil Johnny 666]

shep82 wrote...
This is starting to turn into an I hate ME 2 thread. I couldn't disagree more.

Euh, it's a ''what we miss from ME1'' thread, it ought to be about what ME2 did wrong that ME1 didn't at some degree. And not everyone praise ME2 here in case you didn't know.
 

9.Not IMO. (about cliché characters)

Come on now. Bioware even reuse their own characters throughout their games of different series. Thane may not be particularly cliché, but all the others are without a doubt, it's not a question of opinion. Cliché characters are cliché characters, end of the line. How many times have we seen the soldier who switches sides, the perfect femme fatale, the mad scientist, the violent chick who grew without parents, the war machine beast-type alien (Grunt, this one is a very tired and old one) and such? Sure a bit were added to them, but the basic of their characters are clearly clichés. Even in ME1, but they were better clichés imo. Like Garrus, the guy who's tired of all the red tape. Or in ME2 when he turned into a vigilante and try to hunt down the one who sold his team out. If you think ME characters are not cliché, you haven't read many books or watched many movies.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

6. In a lot of sci-fi games and movies I'm always bugged by the fact the weapons technology never seems to have moved forward. Take halo for an example. The assault rifle is like an airsoft gun. So in ME2 why are the guns so weak. It doesn't make the game harder. Historically, weapons technology is always ahead of armor. Why does that seem to be false in science fiction? And making the gun a laser doesn't constitute an improvement if it doesn't improve anything.

If you want to one-shot enemies with a few bullets of the Avenger, then the enemy should do the same to you. That's just bad gameplay that takes out the gaming part of the shooting. There needs to be some buffer on both sides so that tactics come into play, and shields, barriers, and armor are those buffers.

I wouldn't like ME to turn into a tactical shooter, but I strongly disagree about these types of shooter thanking the gaming part out of the shooting. I have no idea how such games are less games than say, CoD or Gears of War. Plus, the original Ghost Recon ought to be one of my favourite shooters of all time even if you could die from one shot depending of where you receive the bullet. It makes for much more tactical and satisfying gameplay imo. There's a better sense of accomplishment too, and the enemies actually feel dangerous, as the sound of bullets zipping close to you. Although I agree that a simulator wouldn't be the best of things.

I liked that in ME1. But at the same time, imagine riding the Mako and collecting minerals all over again in ME2. It wouldn't be anything new.

You don't need to collect minerals. They could change the gameplay a bit and improve things, but they didn't even try in ME2.

I do remember KOTOR and ME is basically the same. You have nice, neutral, and mean replies just like ME2, except you can read the actual dialogue before choosing to 'say' it. Just like KOTOR, characters react differently to your replies. Being nice to Jack and she'll make fun of you. Condemning Mordin about his work on the Genophage in his 2nd conversation makes him snark back at you. The idea that you're forced to be one-sided is exaggerated IMO, I've always gone back and forth on NG+ games and I never had any problems with the big choices. The worst thing that can happen is that you don't get laid and it adds difficulty to your team's survival, which is what should happen.

There were more than 3 options, they often reflected most of the options you could think of. Unlike the ME games, I never came across an occasion in kotor where I was like ''why the hell can't I say this, while I can say this or that''. The prime example is after meeting the Illusive Man for the first time. You can either tell Jacob you trust him but not his employer (and you don't even know the last bit before actually pushing a), you're not sure, or you don't trust him. Where is the ''I trust you and your employer bit?'' or ''I like your employer but you're a ******'' or something? And that's only one example. Depending of the situation, you could do two totally different ''evil'' things because of the several conversation options. Sometimes it was more evil to not kill someone instantly. The game had much more satisfying lines for you to say.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 16 mai 2011 - 03:21 .

[CajNatalie]

I don't get what that Tony guy is saying about how the guns in ME2 are apparently 'so weak'.

Everyone, including Shepard, gets shredded. With exception to Tela Vasir, who's the only character wearing real armor (though that battle makes no sense to me if she's lost all that blood, but I go with it)...

I'm on Insanity right now and enemy longevity is about as low as it was in Casual mode in ME1.

Anyway, what's the point in armor if you can get one-shotted anyway? The point of armor was that it actually does (well, with the screw-up in ME1, I mean past tense 'did') something.

I actually would prefer to see Shepard's armor do more than be a worthless shield battery.
I like longevity in both Shepard and enemies to make firefights more intense while allowing you to take risks - and the enemies can take risks, too.
Altogether this made a much more unique fighting experience than in a standard shooter where enemies just die the moment they come in to view.

Also, enemy longevity increases the potency of biotics. One of the common issues people have with ME2 is how useless biotics have become... sure they were overpowered in ME1 so a nerfing was in order... but they overdid the nerfing.
There's no point in using a biotic to control an enemy if you can just as easily pop a bullet in them... well considering casting time is a split second longer than shooting time it's actually easier.

The game's supposed to be an RPG with guns. Not a shooter.

Last but not least, this is a 'what we miss from ME1 thread', not an 'everything we dislike about ME2' thread...

Modifié par CajNatalie, 16 mai 2011 - 10:04 .

[Ahglock]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

shep82 wrote...
This is starting to turn into an I hate ME 2 thread. I couldn't disagree more.

Euh, it's a ''what we miss from ME1'' thread, it ought to be about what ME2 did wrong that ME1 didn't at some degree. And not everyone praise ME2 here in case you didn't know.
 

9.Not IMO. (about cliché characters)

Come on now. Bioware even reuse their own characters throughout their games of different series. Thane may not be particularly cliché, but all the others are without a doubt, it's not a question of opinion. Cliché characters are cliché characters, end of the line. How many times have we seen the soldier who switches sides, the perfect femme fatale, the mad scientist, the violent chick who grew without parents, the war machine beast-type alien (Grunt, this one is a very tired and old one) and such? Sure a bit were added to them, but the basic of their characters are clearly clichés. Even in ME1, but they were better clichés imo. Like Garrus, the guy who's tired of all the red tape. Or in ME2 when he turned into a vigilante and try to hunt down the one who sold his team out. If you think ME characters are not cliché, you haven't read many books or watched many movies.

Thane is cliche as well.  The remorseful assassin is just as cliche as the klingons I mean krogans. And like all reformed assassins it comes down to 2 motives, love and or seeing your own mortality.  Thane does both.  

[Harmless Crunch]

Okay I'd just thought I'd say thanks to everyone for helping to reach 40 pages!

Anyway on the topic of cliche characters, does it truly matter? I mean there are tons of cliche characters in all of BioWare's games. But does that matter? Most of the characters BioWare have created have been brilliant imo, but are they cliche? Of course its just that as long as the charcters are good I dont have a problem with them being cliches.

Take Wrex for instance, a increadibly popular character who is as cliche as you can get. I mean we havent seen a badass merc for hire before right? And agian I dont have a problem with them being cliches.

Now I'd just like to say thanks for everyone defending this thread and explaining this is a "What we miss from ME1" thread not a "Problems with ME2 thread". Honestley I couldnt care if you hate ME1 or ME2 but please can we try to keep this on-topic and not have this thread locked. (I'm only asking those who have been leading this into a ME1 vs ME2 thread not those who have been defending this thread)

[Da Mecca]

Everything is cliche now.

It's all about execution.

This applies to everything.

[Harmless Crunch]

@Da Mecca
This! And besides Mass effect is built upon cliches that have been existing for hundreds of years. And in some ways I think thats what makes it so great....

[Nathan Redgrave]

Biotics in ME2, useless? I fire off biotics and tech powers all over the place, whatchootalkinboutwillis?!

I miss ME1's weapons mods. Or rather the idea of them. Really glad they're bringing that back.

Also miss the Charm and Intimidate skills actually being skills that you level up. The ME2 Paragon/Renegade system doesn't work quite as well.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Harmless Crunch wrote...

@Da Mecca
This! And besides Mass effect is built upon cliches that have been existing for hundreds of years. And in some ways I think thats what makes it so great....

Yes, and it could be argued that what I miss from ME1, is better cliché characters. I really, really didn't like Jack, Grunt and Samara for instance.

Ahglock wrote...

Thane is cliche as well.  The remorseful assassin is just as cliche as the klingons I mean krogans. And like all reformed assassins it comes down to 2 motives, love and or seeing your own mortality.  Thane does both.  

True, I kind of forgot about it and thought more of his race background...

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 17 mai 2011 - 12:53 .

[Harmless Crunch]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Biotics in ME2, useless? I fire off biotics and tech powers all over the place, whatchootalkinboutwillis?!

I miss ME1's weapons mods. Or rather the idea of them. Really glad they're bringing that back.

Also miss the Charm and Intimidate skills actually being skills that you level up. The ME2 Paragon/Renegade system doesn't work quite as well.

Yeah I wouldnt call Biotics useless in ME2 either, not as powerfull as in ME1 but stll really, really good!

[CajNatalie]

Sorry, I should have implied that I meant 'relatively useless'... not actually useless.

I'm still making use of Shockwave and Pull in my Insanity run with my Vanguard right now... in fact I'm using them more than I was in Hardcore. So I can't say they're 'useless' literally.

...just not as good as they should be... >_>

Major Example: Use Heavy Throw on a Varren in Insanity without shooting/burning it first
A varren
A freaking varren... it's just a dumb animal
Nothing really happens
*sadface* =(

Modifié par CajNatalie, 17 mai 2011 - 01:20 .

[Polodox]

What I missed was the elevators instead of loading screens. (granted I would use the quick move after a while) it gave a great sense of depth to the environments, When you throw in the ability to explore different areas in addition inter-squad conversations and it felt like these places were real.

The other thing I missed was the ability to talk to seemingly random and worthless characters aka the Volus and Elcor diplomats. They expanded my knowledge of the Mass Effect Lore in ways the Codex could never achieve, like when the Volus despised humans for no apparent reason and the Elcor joining the conversation giving back a *chastising remark*. Its not about goal orientation but the *new word* explorentation that I had.

[Da Mecca]

Just finished my hardcore playthrough with my new Shep.

Damn good game, even after all this time.

Getting ready to playthrough ME2 with him.

I saved Kaidan, just because I thought he would make a better Spectre, and besides, Ash dying on Virmire restores her family name.

Win/win?

[Dawnhorn]

 I can't believe people miss the Mako.  That is the sole reason I am unable to play ME 1.  I loved every bit of that game EXCEPT the Mako.  It's tedious.

[Da Mecca]

Dawnhorn wrote...

 I can't believe people miss the Mako.  That is the sole reason I am unable to play ME 1.  I loved every bit of that game EXCEPT the Mako.  It's tedious.

Some people adapt, I adapted.

[CajNatalie]

You miss the Mako...
...when you realize that 50% (or more!) of your first ME2 playthrough was planetscanning (if you went for all survivors)
...when you realize that even the Hammerhead has to hide behind cover because it blows up in five bullets

Modifié par CajNatalie, 17 mai 2011 - 02:36 .

[Ahglock]

CajNatalie wrote...

You miss the Mako...
...when you realize that 50% (or more!) of your first ME2 playthrough was planetscanning (if you went for all survivors)
...when you realize that even the Hammerhead has to hide behind cover because it blows up in five bullets

While planet scanning took up way too much time from my first play through 50% is a bit more of an exageration than I care for.  Maybe a 10th of the game given that we didn't come with cool tricks on how to speed it up and we didn;t really know how much we would need.  

I miss the mako purely because I think exploration is one of the coolest features you can add to a game.  

[wizardryforever]

CajNatalie wrote...

You miss the Mako...
...when you realize that 50% (or more!) of your first ME2 playthrough was planetscanning (if you went for all survivors)
...when you realize that even the Hammerhead has to hide behind cover because it blows up in five bullets

Your exaggerations are exaggerating.  The Mako had its ups and downs, the physics engine saw to that, excessively so.

[wolfennights]

I miss being able to heal myself in ME1.

[wizardryforever]

wolfennights wrote...

I miss being able to heal myself in ME1.

No need to miss that.  It's in both games, it's just tied to the unity power in the second game.  Just use unity and it will apply medi-gel to everyone.

[Sevker]

I miss Noveria and the music there.

[Harmless Crunch]

CajNatalie wrote...

Sorry, I should have implied that I meant 'relatively useless'... not actually useless.

I'm still making use of Shockwave and Pull in my Insanity run with my Vanguard right now... in fact I'm using them more than I was in Hardcore. So I can't say they're 'useless' literally.

...just not as good as they should be... >_>

Major Example: Use Heavy Throw on a Varren in Insanity without shooting/burning it first
A varren
A freaking varren... it's just a dumb animal
Nothing really happens
*sadface* =(

Yeah that is just plain dumb =(

[Harmless Crunch]

Polodox wrote...
The other thing I missed was the ability to talk to seemingly random and worthless characters aka the Volus and Elcor diplomats. They expanded my knowledge of the Mass Effect Lore in ways the Codex could never achieve, like when the Volus despised humans for no apparent reason and the Elcor joining the conversation giving back a *chastising remark*. Its not about goal orientation but the *new word* explorentation that I had.

Oh yeah I remeber that or talking to Tali about the Geth uprising and Quarian culture....it was like I had really steped into a compleltley new world....

[Righteousham]

I freely admit to not having read the entirety of this thread, as such what I miss has probably been mentioned before so if I am beating a dead horse here I do apologize. Primary I found myself missing the sense of grandeur the ME1 universe provided. I remember people being quite vocal about the boring planet design as well as the Mako's unreliable controls, but I don't recall many people demanding those features be removed completely. In fact, I remember many threads detailing ways in which both of those aspects could be improved.

Secondly,  weapon mods and having an inventory. Both of these aspects of ME gave it more of an RPG feel and while both of these features of the game definitely needed refining, I don't recall many people asking for them to be cut out of the sequal. Just my two cents.


Edited for a tiny grammer mistake.

Modifié par Righteousham, 17 mai 2011 - 03:43 .