226 réponses à ce sujet

[Lithuasil]

TheBlackBaron wrote...
"Rightful heir to Teyrnir of Highever dies in mysterious circumstances, inheritance passes to sister who's married to puppet of Loghain" sounds rather suspicious, fwiw. 

How does "scout doesn't return from dangerous mission in darkspawn infested lands, daughter confesses her fathers betrayal and bonds to orlais, get's cleared of charges and marries heir of house Howe" sound?

[just.a.dude]

Randy1083 wrote...

Hawke wasn't a catalyst for anything. The Deep Roads expedition still would have happened without Hawke. The qunari still would have attacked Kirkwall. Meredith still would have gotten a piece of the idol and gone wacko. Vengeance still would have blown up the Chantry. And, most importantly, Varric still would have been awesome.

Actually the exact opposite is true.

The Deep Roads would have failed. The artifact never recovered. What would have become of the Mage - Templar conflict is uncertain. Most likely it would never have taken place, since Hawke would not have been there to step in and resolve the Qunari conflict. Kirkwall under Qunari rule would have been the most likely scenario after act 2. Maybe Vengence would have blown up the chantry, but the Qunari would have dealt with him at that point. While Hawke is not the catalyst for any of these events, he is the one who resolves them and sets the stage.for Act 3. The Templar - Mage conflict is, in fact, the only event he does not resolve. He simply picks a side.

In essence, Hawke was just the dude / dudette who, when things went to hell in a hand-basket, stepped in and took care of it.

Oh, and one more thing: Varric was not only awesome. but a Paragon of manliness!

Modifié par just.a.dude, 28 mars 2011 - 12:00 .

[barenas]

SLPr0 wrote...

Hawke's purpose was to stand astride the flashpoint of the war that is going to split Thedas into gloriously gory bits.

Morrigan warns us, in Witch Hunt...that change is coming, Flemeth again warns us in DA2, almost in exactly the same words.

The events of DA2 are more or less an unalterable series of events, as the premise of the story is already being retold to the Chantry by Varric the events have already happened as soon as you create a game. This is unlike DA:O in of which you had an origin point and an eventual end point...going from A to B in a long series of events.

The DA2 story goes from B to A instead, which is a nice variant. The events of the 12 or so years between the fall of Ostagar and the events in the end game of DA2 are already set in stone, and in as much, the purpose of Hawke is to guide how that story is told.

There are multiple ways this game can go on. Notice I say "go on" not "end". The game can only end ONE way...there is going to be a war, there is nothing Hawke can do to stop it. But I believe the purpose of Hawke's actions in DA2 are simply to set the stage for who Hawke is in DA3, nothing more, nothing less.

Hawke's purpose therefore is to define Hawke for the rest of your DA story, for as long as they choose to retain the Hawke character which I feel they probably will retain Hawke for the next release at least.

So unlike your Grey Warden, who was mostly around to touch off conversation events and to stab a dragon in the head to be the hero, your Hawke and your actions as Hawke in the story of Kirkwall simply set the stage for who you will be in DA3.

Its actually, when you think about it, a quite ingenious way to set up a primary voiced lead character that YOU can relate to, after all, you pretty much will have created him, and guided his choices in the person he becomes in the deepening story.

Think of Hawke and DA2, as a 55 hour "Origin", and then you know what the purpose of Hawke is. Hawke's purpose is to let you decide who Hawke is from DA2 on.

I think this is probably a level of detail that most have missed out on. Just like in Mass Effect how your actions there affected the Shepard you were in ME2, your actions in DA2 will affect the Hawke you are in DA3 and beyond.

Though I could be completely off, I think this would be a level of complexity I would expect from BioWare, and its a level of complexity I think many fans, due to its unfamiliar nature, aren't getting.

I think this sums it up perfectly. It seems BioWare went with a gamble on telling the story this way and a lot of people aren't getting it or not liking it I suppose.

[TheBlackBaron]

Lithuasil wrote...
That's true for city elf/dwarf commoner.
Surana/Amell is a whole different matter all together. When you go tell Irving about Jowans plan (which I did) Gregoir doesn't actually press charges - it's just that even selecting "But this is my home, I don't want to leave", Irving goes all "It's a great chance (to get horribly killed) my child, I'll pretend I didn't hear you".

Greagoir is going ape**** over how Jowan gets away and is apparantly willing to send you to Aeonar even if you were under Irving's orders, and he ultimately has final authority on punishing mages. 

It's a bit flimsy, sure, but not immersion-breakingly so. 

On the other hand, aside from Dailish (who is sick) and maybe dwarf commoner, all Origins have (depending on how much you messed up) opportunity to find a place to live, or fix the mess they left (running to the dales, running to the nearest circle, running to Loghain, running to harrowmont). None of these are nice fates, but they're better then signing your own death sentence.

You don't know about the suppossed death sentence (I personally have a hard time calling a thirty year-plus timer a "death sentence", but I digress) until you're already far, far too deep in to back out. 

Running to the find the Dalish isn't really an option and is certainly no better than the one you're presented with at the time of arriving at Ostagar. Circle Mages running back isn't doing anything more than sticking them back in the frying pan. There's no way in hell a DN can go to Harrowmont - you were convicted and exiled, remember? There's no way a tradition-bound dwarf like Harrowmont is going to help you at that point in time prior to the King's death. And running to Loghain I've already covered. 

[TJPags]

just.a.dude wrote...

Randy1083 wrote...

Hawke wasn't a catalyst for anything. The Deep Roads expedition still would have happened without Hawke. The qunari still would have attacked Kirkwall. Meredith still would have gotten a piece of the idol and gone wacko. Vengeance still would have blown up the Chantry. And, most importantly, Varric still would have been awesome.

Actually the exact opposite is true.

The Deep Roads would have failed. The artifact never recovered. What would have become of the Mage - Templar conflict is uncertain. Most likely it would never have taken place, since Hawke would not have been there to step in and resolve the Qunari conflict. Kirkwall under Qunari rule would have been the most likely scenario after act 2. Maybe Vengence would have blown up the chantry, but the Qunari would have dealt with him at that point. While Hawke is not the catalyst for any of these events, he is the one who resolves them and sets the stage.for Act 3. The Templar - Mage conflict is, in fact, the only event he does not resolve. He simply picks a side.

In essence, Hawke was just the dude / dudette who, when things went to hell in a hand-basket, stepped in and took care of it.

Oh, and one more thing: Varric was not only awesome. but a Paragon of manliness!

Hmm, doubt it.

Hawke was an investor.  So, if no Hawke, then they get someone else.  If the new person isn't a fighter, hire some who are.  Problem solved.

Anders had the map.  Varric knows about Anders.  No need for Hawke there, either.  So, we've got artifact.

Qunari attack - okay, fine.  Templars fight them off, or they and the City Guard locate Isabela, give her to the Arishok, they leave.  That's solved, no need for Hawke.

Anders blows up Chantry whether Hawke helps him or not.  So, again not needed. 

Hawke didn't win any fights in that final conflict, just eventually ran out of people to kill, Meredith and Orsino both being dead.  Even if nobody else can kill either or both, fight still starts, someone wins, someone loses, mages all over the world rebel.

Game works just fine without Hawke, IMO.

[TheBlackBaron]

Lithuasil wrote...
How does "scout doesn't return from dangerous mission in darkspawn infested lands, daughter confesses her fathers betrayal and bonds to orlais, get's cleared of charges and marries heir of house Howe" sound?

Only works if he actually does die in the Wilds. Once Ferghus gets back to civilization it's going to be pretty hard to cover that up, at least amongst the nobility. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 28 mars 2011 - 12:11 .

[MKDAWUSS]

just.a.dude wrote...

Randy1083 wrote...

Hawke wasn't a catalyst for anything. The Deep Roads expedition still would have happened without Hawke. The qunari still would have attacked Kirkwall. Meredith still would have gotten a piece of the idol and gone wacko. Vengeance still would have blown up the Chantry. And, most importantly, Varric still would have been awesome.

Actually the exact opposite is true.

The Deep Roads would have failed. The artifact never recovered. What would have become of the Mage - Templar conflict is uncertain. Most likely it would never have taken place, since Hawke would not have been there to step in and resolve the Qunari conflict. Kirkwall under Qunari rule would have been the most likely scenario after act 2. Maybe Vengence would have blown up the chantry, but the Qunari would have dealt with him at that point. While Hawke is not the catalyst for any of these events, he is the one who resolves them and sets the stage.for Act 3. The Templar - Mage conflict is, in fact, the only event he does not resolve. He simply picks a side.

In essence, Hawke was just the dude / dudette who, when things went to hell in a hand-basket, stepped in and took care of it.

Oh, and one more thing: Varric was not only awesome. but a Paragon of manliness!

Well, DSC more or less proves that the Warden wasn't necessary either - Alistair more or less fills his role. Just have him making the final blow against the AD and bam - DAO sans Warden.

Take the Hawkes away from DA2.

Flemeth bails out Aveline (Wesley still dies) and has her take the amulet to Sundermount. She performs a few favors to get into Kirkwall, and is eventually picked up into the City Guard. During her spare time, she's able to make the trip and Merrill performs the ritual.

Varric meets Anders, who has maps to the Deep Roads that he and his brother need. The two of them join the expedition, rescue Sandal, and advance to the idol. Bartrand takes it and leaves Anders and Varric off to die. The two eventually make their way back out with some nice treasure to boot.

When the Qunari tensions come to a boil, the invasion ends up being repelled by Knight-Commander Meredith, who becomes a local hero amongst the locals. This allows her to make a power grab which results in increased mage oppression. They start to resist, and things come to a head once Anders blows up the Chantry. The Templars proceed to wipe out the mages. Meredith, under the influence of the lyrium sword, attacks the Templars once all the mages are dead. The Templars collectively are able to defeat Meredith.

DA2 without Hawke.

[Lithuasil]

TJPags wrote...
snip

You realize that what you're saying is pretty much
"Alistair gathers Allies, defeats Loghain, slays archdemon, nope no need for the warden"?

@TheBlackBaron

Zhevran found the Warden in the wilderness, he'll find Fergus (and provided I'd confess my fathers involvement in some orlesian conspiracy, outlawing fergus, even without my consent, would be pretty easy). Also - as slim as all those opportunities are (I never doubted the origins leave you in a pretty bad position) - has anyone ever heard about the wardens doing anything but fighting darkspawn? (aside from the whole betrayal thing) Because even if you make it for thirty years - it's still thirty years you spent as a soldier, fighting darkspawn. And I'd much rather sit in a circle, or be someones political hostage, then spending the rest of my life fighting darkspawn.

[The Angry One]

Lithuasil wrote...

That's true for city elf/dwarf commoner.
Surana/Amell is a whole different matter all together. When you go tell Irving about Jowans plan (which I did) Gregoir doesn't actually press charges - it's just that even selecting "But this is my home, I don't want to leave", Irving goes all "It's a great chance (to get horribly killed) my child, I'll pretend I didn't hear you".

Mind you it is evident that Irving was trying to get you into the Wardens all along and he would've pushed you into it no matter what Jowan did.

[TJPags]

Lithuasil wrote...

TJPags wrote...
snip

You realize that what you're saying is pretty much
"Alistair gathers Allies, defeats Loghain, slays archdemon, nope no need for the warden"?

Well, people don't seem to like it when I argue that Hawke being around wasn't important to the outcome of the game, so sure, I'll try it without Hawke.

And DSC kind of shows that Alistair could have done it, no?

[TheBlackBaron]

Lithuasil wrote...

Zhevran found the Warden in the wilderness, he'll find Fergus (and provided I'd confess my fathers involvement in some orlesian conspiracy, outlawing fergus, even without my consent, would be pretty easy).

Not in the Korcari Wilds, he won't.

As for Ferghus' involvement in an Orlesian conspiracy, with Loghain it'd probably work to just tell him that and he'd buy it, but I imagine that everybody else will be wanting some actual evidence of such; considering this is a quest for legitimacy and you've already hurt that a bit by allowing a puppet to dispense immediate "justice" on the other Couslands that's rather important. 

Also - as slim as all those opportunities are (I never doubted the origins leave you in a pretty bad position) - has anyone ever heard about the wardens doing anything but fighting darkspawn? (aside from the whole betrayal thing) Because even if you make it for thirty years - it's still thirty years you spent as a soldier, fighting darkspawn. And I'd much rather sit in a circle, or be someones political hostage, then spending the rest of my life fighting darkspawn.

What choice do you have, really? Might as well join the Wardens and work with the others to not get killed instead of chasing your alternatives, which are a) horrific prison time nao (Amell/Surana), probable execution (Tabris, Aeducan, Brosca, Cousland), or c) death (Mahariel). 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 28 mars 2011 - 12:31 .

[Lithuasil]

TheBlackBaron wrote...




ANot in the Korcari Wilds, he wonAs for Ferghus' involvement in an Orlesian conspiracy, with Loghain it'd probably work to just tell him that and he'd buy it, but I imagine that everybody else will be wanting some actual evidence of such; considering this is a quest for legitimacy and you've already hurt that a bit by allowing a puppet to dispense immediate "justice" on the other Couslands that's rather important. 

Aside from Loghain, nobody needs to buy into it. Any person questioning the death of these people, after it's done and the arrangements are made will see a villain in Loghain, and me as the poor victim, that was forced to marry the son of the guy who murdered her family. All the while, I sit back in highever, with my own status largely untouched, alive, and any possible resistance likely out to *support* me. Mission accomplished, wouldn't you say? 

TheBlackBaron wrote...
What choice do you have, really? Might as well join the Wardens and work with the others to not get killed instead of chasing your alternatives, which are a) horrific prison time nao (Amell/Surana), probable execution (Tabris, Aeducan, Brosca, Cousland), or c) death (Mahariel). 

The prison time isn't certain, and a *likely* execution is better then *certain* death by darkspawn, with possibly a few years of suck beforehand. Just saying. Depending on Origin, even more so *after* ostagar, when everyone is anti-gray wardens, still following the agenda and trying to rally ferelden as opposed to legging it, whether to the orlesian wardens or elsewhere, is pretty stupid by my book

[just.a.dude]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

just.a.dude wrote...

The Deep Roads would have failed. The artifact never recovered. What would have become of the Mage - Templar conflict is uncertain. Most likely it would never have taken place, since Hawke would not have been there to step in and resolve the Qunari conflict. Kirkwall under Qunari rule would have been the most likely scenario after act 2. Maybe Vengence would have blown up the chantry, but the Qunari would have dealt with him at that point. While Hawke is not the catalyst for any of these events, he is the one who resolves them and sets the stage.for Act 3. The Templar - Mage conflict is, in fact, the only event he does not resolve. He simply picks a side.

In essence, Hawke was just the dude / dudette who, when things went to hell in a hand-basket, stepped in and took care of it.

Oh, and one more thing: Varric was not only awesome. but a Paragon of manliness!

Well, DSC more or less proves that the Warden wasn't necessary either - Alistair more or less fills his role. Just have him making the final blow against the AD and bam - DAO sans Warden.

Take the Hawkes away from DA2.

Flemeth bails out Aveline (Wesley still dies) and has her take the amulet to Sundermount. She performs a few favors to get into Kirkwall, and is eventually picked up into the City Guard. During her spare time, she's able to make the trip and Merrill performs the ritual.

Varric meets Anders, who has maps to the Deep Roads that he and his brother need. The two of them join the expedition, rescue Sandal, and advance to the idol. Bartrand takes it and leaves Anders and Varric off to die. The two eventually make their way back out with some nice treasure to boot.

When the Qunari tensions come to a boil, the invasion ends up being repelled by Knight-Commander Meredith, who becomes a local hero amongst the locals. This allows her to make a power grab which results in increased mage oppression. They start to resist, and things come to a head once Anders blows up the Chantry. The Templars proceed to wipe out the mages. Meredith, under the influence of the lyrium sword, attacks the Templars once all the mages are dead. The Templars collectively are able to defeat Meredith.

DA2 without Hawke.

The Darkspawn Cronicles DLC ends with the Archdeamon victorious if the Warden dies during the joining.

If the Warden is vital to the outcome of that story, I would say it is safe to argue that Hawke is vital to the outcome of this story. The Hero is important, because it is the hero who does the things others can not.

[TheBlackBaron]

Lithuasil wrote...

Aside from Loghain, nobody needs to buy into it. Any person questioning the death of these people, after it's done and the arrangements are made will see a villain in Loghain, and me as the poor victim, that was forced to marry the son of the guy who murdered her family. All the while, I sit back in highever, with my own status largely untouched, alive, and any possible resistance likely out to *support* me. Mission accomplished, wouldn't you say? 

Yeah...this might be me metagaming a bit, but that's gonna look a mite suspicious as well. 

Not to mention, of course, I have very strong doubts about it ever reaching  this point in the first place. 

The prison time isn't certain, and a *likely* execution is better then *certain* death by darkspawn, with possibly a few years of suck beforehand. Just saying. Depending on Origin, even more so *after* ostagar, when everyone is anti-gray wardens, still following the agenda and trying to rally ferelden as opposed to legging it, whether to the orlesian wardens or elsewhere, is pretty stupid by my book

*Certain* death by Darkspawn? Don't know about you but my Wardens managed to avoid that dying thing pretty well. Might as well be a free soldier instead of a dead prisoner.

And hell, after Ostagar is when you've got the most cause to be toeing the line and following the agenda, since your options are now even moar limited. Especially when the most obvious one is "flee the country and let everybody you've ever known die, like a douche", which I suppose is technically an option but not one that's fit for a fantasy RPG, even one that BioWare, bless their hearts, tries to make a dark fantasy.  

[Deztyn]

I find it amusing that someone who thinks "Human Noble is a manipulative witch who marries the son of the man who killed her parents, destroys her home, usurps her family's hereditary title and helps to kill her own older brother and would happily leave the rest of the world to the blight" is the only good story option that could come out of that origin, and also defends DA2s 'choices' so ardently.

Modifié par Deztyn, 28 mars 2011 - 01:12 .

[Lithuasil]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Yeah...this might be me metagaming a bit, but that's gonna look a mite suspicious as well. 

Not to mention, of course, I have very strong doubts about it ever reaching  this point in the first place. 

Actually, for something I just made up as I went, that's a pretty good plan - I need to convince *only* Loghain, that I can be of value, and no matter what civil unrest happens next, I'm in the best position I can hope to reach - one where one side considers me valuable *alive*, and the other considers me an innocent hostage in need of saving. 

*Certain* death by Darkspawn? Don't know about you but my Wardens managed to avoid that dying thing pretty well. Might as well be a free soldier instead of a dead prisoner.

And hell, after Ostagar is when you've got the most cause to be toeing the line and following the agenda, since your options are now even moar limited. Especially when the most obvious one is "flee the country and let everybody you've ever known die, like a douche", which I suppose is technically an option but not one that's fit for a fantasy RPG, even one that BioWare, bless their hearts, tries to make a dark fantasy.  

And how likely is it for a person, that doesn't know she's clad into plotarmor thick enough it could've shielded the chantry from being nuked by anders, to anticipate the way the events would unfold, let alone survive them?

[Lithuasil]

Deztyn wrote...

I find it amusing that someone thinks "Human Noble is a manipulative witch who marries the son of the man who killed her parents, destroys her home, usurps her family's hereditary title and helps to kill her own older brother and would happily leave the rest of the world to the blight" is the only good story option that could come out of that origin, also defends DA2s 'choices' so ardently.

I find "HN doesn't know of the power of quicksave, nor does she know about being a human shaped plot device, and she likes living as a hostage better then dying as a soldier" pretty convincing, from a roleplaying perspective. 

There could have easily been other options, but origins failed to deliver them, given most of your origins get forgotten the very second you arrive at ostagar. Case and point - Fergus sitting the blight out in a shack.

[TheBlackBaron]

Lithuasil wrote...

Actually, for something I just made up as I went, that's a pretty good plan - I need to convince *only* Loghain, that I can be of value, and no matter what civil unrest happens next, I'm in the best position I can hope to reach - one where one side considers me valuable *alive*, and the other considers me an innocent hostage in need of saving.

Well, I've already expressed my strong doubts about being able to convince Loghain, so...reread the last two pages kk?

And how likely is it for a person, that doesn't know she's clad into plotarmor thick enough it could've shielded the chantry from being nuked by anders, to anticipate the way the events would unfold, let alone survive them?

Same way she apparantly knows tightly-kept secrets about Warden recruitment procedures and rituals, I guess. 

[Danjaru]

TJPags wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

TJPags wrote...
snip

You realize that what you're saying is pretty much
"Alistair gathers Allies, defeats Loghain, slays archdemon, nope no need for the warden"?

Well, people don't seem to like it when I argue that Hawke being around wasn't important to the outcome of the game, so sure, I'll try it without Hawke.

And DSC kind of shows that Alistair could have done it, no?

Well.. Up to the point of the final battle, then everyone dies without the Warden. Which is kinda weird, I would've thought Alistair was as competent as the Warden.

But the Warden at least had influence, he could impact the world alot depending on your choices. Hawke didn't have that luxury and no matter what he did, the only thing he could change are if a couple of people lived or died, and even some of them ended up backstabbing you (like Grace). But no real impact on the story at all except for being the muscle.

Modifié par Danjaru, 28 mars 2011 - 01:25 .

[Lithuasil]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Well, I've already expressed my strong doubts about being able to convince Loghain, so...reread the last two pages kk?

I'm merely following a line of thought for fun here . I don't mean to annoy or offend.

Same way she apparantly knows tightly-kept secrets about Warden recruitment procedures and rituals, I guess. 

She doesn't need to (and I never stated she does) - what she knows is there's going to be some creepy secrety joining thing, and what she knows is Gray wardens fight darkspawn. Now I'm speaking as a roleplayer here - if I was a sixteen or seventeen year old noble girl, who happened to enjoy sportive swordplay in the past, and just escaped from a battle where everyone she knew and liked got horribly horribly murdered - there's a couple of things I'd do as such a person.
Crying myself into sleep for a few weeks in one. Most likely never touching a blade again is another. Joining a militant order, and fight foes much more terrifying and much more gruesome then any human, beings I only know from legends mind you, is *not* very high on that list. And throwing myself at the mercy of someone who has at least more reason to grant it, then the darkspawn have, is perfectly acceptable in that situation (to me, anyway).

[Vicious]

I don't believe we will be playing Hawke in DA3.

I also believe the devs have said they think they can pull off a different hero in each DA game. Always starting with the phrase 'while we know people get attached to their characters..."

So If anything, the huge seeker symbol flashing on the screen before the ending seemed like a big hint.

Because otherwise it made no sense. rofl

[The Angry One]

Lithuasil wrote...

I find "HN doesn't know of the power of quicksave, nor does she know about being a human shaped plot device, and she likes living as a hostage better then dying as a soldier" pretty convincing, from a roleplaying perspective.

Well, whatever you say the HN starts out as a capable fighter who has bested all her opponents so far, caught the specific attention of Duncan and the only reason she isn't being sent to Ostagar is she's the youngest and Elenor doesn't want her entire family marching straight into the Blight.
So really I don't see the "living as a hostage" part coming up at all in that scenario as a desirable fate.

[Lithuasil]

The Angry One wrote...

Well, whatever you say the HN starts out as a capable fighter who has bested all her opponents so far, caught the specific attention of Duncan and the only reason she isn't being sent to Ostagar is she's the youngest and Elenor doesn't want her entire family marching straight into the Blight.
So really I don't see the "living as a hostage" part coming up at all in that scenario as a desirable fate.

I always assumed "bested all her opponents so far" referrs to friendly sparring in a courtyard. If there's some source stating the girl took part in two campaigns already, I'll immediatly overthink the vision I have of her 

[XiNAVRO]

To add something to this argument, one thing that I've noticed is quite a fair number of RPG players were stating that they are tired of playing the Hero who saves the world from all peril.

Sure most of the time you are an errand boy/girl who finds this family heirloom vase inside the dark gloomy dungeon of doom for this flower-vendor's plain looking wife, but basically you earn money to upgrade your gear and grind to gain more XP to become even more efficient in slaughtering all the dreadful mobs and some petty gangsters. And grab a merry brigade of all shapes and sizes to extinguish the big bad evil that is the Lord Nemesis, King of Doom, Archdemon, or a twisted clonespawn created from Chuck Norris and Steven Seagal.

For once, Hawke isn't saving the world - he/she is trying to save her own/Bethany's skin from the Templars and keep the family safe and wealthy. If Gamlen wasn't the irresponsible dork he was and had kept the estate intact, Hawke family would've walked in to that place and live happily ever after (until getting caught within the flames of warfare during the Qunari invasion and die a gruesome death).

The plot execution wasn't what I would've expected from the creators of Baldur's Gate and KOTOR, but I daresay as a character that I control I prefer Hawke over the Warden. Not sure how things would've turned out if they were in each other's shoes, but there goes my two cents.


EDIT: That being said, without a world to save it seems like there is a lack of... motivation for the players to justify all the actions their character goes through.

Modifié par XiNAVRO, 28 mars 2011 - 01:58 .

[The Angry One]

Lithuasil wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well, whatever you say the HN starts out as a capable fighter who has bested all her opponents so far, caught the specific attention of Duncan and the only reason she isn't being sent to Ostagar is she's the youngest and Elenor doesn't want her entire family marching straight into the Blight.
So really I don't see the "living as a hostage" part coming up at all in that scenario as a desirable fate.

I always assumed "bested all her opponents so far" referrs to friendly sparring in a courtyard. If there's some source stating the girl took part in two campaigns already, I'll immediatly overthink the vision I have of her 

I doubt Duncan would come all the way there just for a friendly sparrer
Castle Cousland had no shortage of soldiers and knights to beat on after all.