226 réponses à ce sujet

[Lithuasil]

The Angry One wrote...
I doubt Duncan would come all the way there just for a friendly sparrer
Castle Cousland had no shortage of soldiers and knights to beat on after all.

My point isn't she's no capable fencer - I'll assume in all arrogance, with what training I have, I could sparr with a medieval soldier and come out on top. But if I had just witnessed my family getting butchered, drawn real blood for the first time of my life, and even killed people, I'd still desperately want a big bed to hide in, hoping to wake up.

(Presumably, after a year of constant horrors and bloodshed, hiding in the bed is exactly what Xana Cousland has been doing since she became queen of Ferelden )

[PantheraOnca]

Lithuasil wrote...



She doesn't need to (and I never stated she does) - what she knows is there's going to be some creepy secrety joining thing,

what if she finds the secrecy intriguing and exciting?

and what she knows is Gray wardens fight darkspawn. Now I'm speaking as a roleplayer here - if I was a sixteen or seventeen year old noble girl, who happened to enjoy sportive swordplay in the past, and just escaped from a battle where everyone she knew and liked got horribly horribly murdered - there's a couple of things I'd do as such a person.
Crying myself into sleep for a few weeks in one. Most likely never touching a blade again is another. Joining a militant order, and fight foes much more terrifying and much more gruesome then any human, beings I only know from legends mind you, is *not* very high on that list.

if she were angry rather than scared, these things could allow her to develop the skills/connections necessary to exact venegance.

[Deztyn]

Your big issue with Origins is that you couldn't roleplay your human noble as a scared little girl who wanted to hide under her bed crying?

I think you need to find another genre to play games in!

Modifié par Deztyn, 28 mars 2011 - 02:16 .

[Lithuasil]

PantheraOnca wrote...
if she were angry rather than scared, these things could allow her to develop the skills/connections necessary to exact venegance.

Any person in her situation, not scared completely ****less, would be completely insane, on a "Meredith after soul edge" level. And even then, while that's what the game tries to shove down my throat - wrong. Becoming a gray warden means, at least to everyone who isn't stalked by flying cameras, to abandon all ambition to ever recover any of my heritage, or exact any kind of revenge.

[TheBlackBaron]

Lithuasil wrote...

Any person in her situation, not scared completely ****less, would be completely insane, on a "Meredith after soul edge" level. And even then, while that's what the game tries to shove down my throat - wrong. Becoming a gray warden means, at least to everyone who isn't stalked by flying cameras, to abandon all ambition to ever recover any of my heritage, or exact any kind of revenge.

Why, exactly? Hell, one of the reasons Mama Cousland tells you to go with Duncan, survive, and join the Grey Wardens is so you can go take revenge on Howe and get back the Teyrnir. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 28 mars 2011 - 02:21 .

[Lithuasil]

Deztyn wrote...

Your big issue with Origins is that you couldn't roleplay your human noble as a scared little girl who wanted to hide under her bed crying?

I think you need to find another genre to play games in!

No, I pretty much did that regardless. (and the game had worse issues). My problem is, unlike say, hawke, the warden sits through an entire year of constant horror beyond the comprehension of the most cold blooded of killers, without so much as *ever* showing signs of stress or cracking under pressure. And there's nothing human or relateable to that. Sure, I can still roleplay a human, but I do it the same way I roleplay when playing pokemon. In my head. 

[Lithuasil]

TheBlackBaron wrote...
Why, exactly? Hell, one of the reasons Mama Cousland tells you to go with Duncan, survive, and join the Grey Wardens is so you can go take revenge on Howe and get back the Teyrnir. 

This might be me being misinformed, but I always thought that unless you're followed by cameras, gray warden is a career choice for life, not something you do as long as it's convenient, to then go back to your old life.
If that impression isn't backed up by lore, I stand corrected.

[The Angry One]

Lithuasil wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...
Why, exactly? Hell, one of the reasons Mama Cousland tells you to go with Duncan, survive, and join the Grey Wardens is so you can go take revenge on Howe and get back the Teyrnir. 

This might be me being misinformed, but I always thought that unless you're followed by cameras, gray warden is a career choice for life, not something you do as long as it's convenient, to then go back to your old life.
If that impression isn't backed up by lore, I stand corrected.

King Alistair and Queen Cousland say hi.
Alright not their old life, but there's clearly space to not always have to be doing righteous Grey Wardening.

Modifié par The Angry One, 28 mars 2011 - 02:24 .

[Lithuasil]

The Angry One wrote...
King Alistair and Queen Cousland say hi.
Alright not their old life, but there's clearly space to not always have to be doing righteous Grey Wardening.

As I said - as long as you're not stalked by invisible camera men. And the events that led there, aren't exactly something you'd call likely, or that happens on a regular basis, are they?

[PantheraOnca]

The Angry One wrote...



King Alistair and Queen Cousland say hi.
Alright not their old life, but there's clearly space to not always have to be doing righteous Grey Wardening.

They're "followed by cameras" aka special cases, aka player characters (alistair get special treatment because he's in the pc's party).

While you might not be able to take back your land, you could at least kill howe as a grey warden. it would not be a grey warden sanctioned act, but it would certainly be within your capabilities.

[The Angry One]

Lithuasil wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
King Alistair and Queen Cousland say hi.
Alright not their old life, but there's clearly space to not always have to be doing righteous Grey Wardening.

As I said - as long as you're not stalked by invisible camera men. And the events that led there, aren't exactly something you'd call likely, or that happens on a regular basis, are they?

No but like Anders said, you don't necesarilly have to wear the uniform or go to the parties, especially with no Blight.

[Lithuasil]

The Angry One wrote...

No but like Anders said, you don't necesarilly have to wear the uniform or go to the parties, especially with no Blight.

That would leave us with the previous problem though, that "well, if you survive the blight, you can desert afterwards" doesn't make the whole grey wardening business anymore appealing.

[Kaiser Shepard]

The First Warden can't exactly say they haven't already done what was required of them. Aside from that, the Order isn't known to shy away from having political influence wherever useful.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 28 mars 2011 - 02:36 .

[The Angry One]

Lithuasil wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

No but like Anders said, you don't necesarilly have to wear the uniform or go to the parties, especially with no Blight.

That would leave us with the previous problem though, that "well, if you survive the blight, you can desert afterwards" doesn't make the whole grey wardening business anymore appealing.

Well look at it this way, if you don't stop the Blight then basically you have to wait for foreign Wardens to get their crap together and by then Highever will be a scorch mark on the ground so the survival of your family legacy is contingent on you succeeding.

[Deztyn]

There's also Kristoff and another married warden in Awakening.

[Lithuasil]

The Angry One wrote...
Well look at it this way, if you don't stop the Blight then basically you have to wait for foreign Wardens to get their crap together and by then Highever will be a scorch mark on the ground so the survival of your family legacy is contingent on you succeeding.

Because from a strategic perspective, with dozens of senior wardens, and a whole army, the success against the blight requires another girl to stand somewhere in between, soil her undergarments and die under the first assault?

(Please remember - I'm well aware why all these options aren't in the game - I'm just saying that the whole railroading thing in origins *could* potentially have been handled more competently, and that I'd have liked to see a few cracks in my characters shell here and there)

[The Angry One]

Lithuasil wrote...

Because from a strategic perspective, with dozens of senior wardens, and a whole army, the success against the blight requires another girl to stand somewhere in between, soil her undergarments and die under the first assault?

(Please remember - I'm well aware why all these options aren't in the game - I'm just saying that the whole railroading thing in origins *could* potentially have been handled more competently, and that I'd have liked to see a few cracks in my characters shell here and there)

No, but having more capable fighters is better than less.
Assuming everything goes as planned, you don't even have to fight in the main battles, the senior wardens slay the Archdemon and a grateful Cailan marches straight to Highever and makes Howe swing from the highest pole in the land.

Of course at this point you don't know about the death sentence or chance of death upon the joining and once you do Duncan will stab you if you say no. Which, yes makes Duncan a ****** but there it is.

Modifié par The Angry One, 28 mars 2011 - 02:47 .

[Lithuasil]

The Angry One wrote...



No, but having more capable fighters is better than less.
Assuming everything goes as planned, you don't even have to fight in the main battles, the senior wardens slay the Archdemon and a grateful Cailan marches straight to Highever and makes Howe swing from the highest pole in the land.

Of course at this point you don't know about the death sentence or chance of death upon the joining and once you do Duncan will stab you if you say no. Which, yes makes Duncan a ****** but there it is.

Not more, then blackmailing me into joining, or telling me "oh btw, go fetch some ingrediences from the wilderness full of darkspawn for me, will you dear?" makes him a massive ******  (and that's pretty much the point where I'd realize this guy isn't quite as concerned with my safety as I am)

Modifié par Lithuasil, 28 mars 2011 - 02:56 .

[t0mm06]

AlexXIV wrote...

I think I agree with the people who said here that the point of the story was supposed to be to uncover that Hawke wasn't the cause of all this, at least not on purpose. The seekers seem to think that Hawke is the person behind all this, the mastermind. Which turns out, as you play the game, wasn't so. I guess the legend goes that Hawke came to Kirkwall with his friends to start a rebellion. That's what Cassandra at first thought too.

I can't say that this worked well. I mean most don't get it probably and even those who do, don't always think it was a good idea. I mean to play the role of a legendary hero who brought about the probably most drastic change in history, and find out that the legends are not even true. That it were mostly Meredith and Anders who caused all of this.

Isnt this true for most if not all legends though? that in reality the Heros arn't the people that caused or prevented what they were fighting for or agaist, just that thye become the leader or face of the side they are on, 

[Relshar]

Randy1083 wrote...

Hawke wasn't a catalyst for anything. The Deep Roads expedition still would have happened without Hawke. The qunari still would have attacked Kirkwall. Meredith still would have gotten a piece of the idol and gone wacko. Vengeance still would have blown up the Chantry. And, most importantly, Varric still would have been awesome.

True on all accounts. Hawke was just a bystander with no single importance to the story. The events would of happened even if he was not present. It may of well been a book with a predictable start middle and end not an RPG where you decisions and actions mean nothing.

[Camenae]

I always thought it was BS that the Grey Wardens will never tell people, not even their pre-Joining recruits, exactly what is involved in becoming a Grey Warden. Instead it's a whole bunch of duress, coercion, fraud, and a bunch of other things that would make any contract void and smell shady as hell in the meantime. This is people's entire lives. I think they deserve to make an INFORMED decision.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Camenae wrote...

I always thought it was BS that the Grey Wardens will never tell people, not even their pre-Joining recruits, exactly what is involved in becoming a Grey Warden. Instead it's a whole bunch of duress, coercion, fraud, and a bunch of other things that would make any contract void and smell shady as hell in the meantime. This is people's entire lives. I think they deserve to make an INFORMED decision.

I like to think my Warden disappeared to perform a takeover (hostile) of the whole organization.

[fenixraven]

Lekwid wrote...

It's kind of like playing Half-Life: Opposing Force after playing Half-Life with Gordon Freeman.  You get the ending and you're like, did I really win the game?

ya know that probably is the best way to sum it up commander shepherd... sheperd?? (i forgot his rank, may as well be a commander) goes n does all that stuff the G-man didn't even expect him to survive and then your sat there on the plane alone with the captain breifcase himself and it just stops.

So to add my own, hawke is more of a bystander with the balls to fight and the skills to do it too

now i think the true question is this its pertanence should prove useful somehow but i cant say what either, varric whittles off the story at the end and finishes i assume with a few different endins "no one knows where hawke is now except..." now when i did this first (currently only) playthrough he said isabella, although issy left in mine when i decided to go help avaline never saw her again, so if nothing else at least isabella survived. now to the point why is it only 1 person? her sister bethany survived is it really going to be so difficult to find isabella? head for the loudest bar.
I assume the greater purpose of them searching is that hawke and the warden and presumably a chavelier knight whatever from orlaise in 3 team up but thats just a wild theory. My guess is the chantry watchers are after something bigger and they are the easiet way to do it. Oh and lel you just try being devious and i'll rip your shoes off through your throat

[shinyelf]

As far as i understand, its all chaos theory, hawke lets out a sigh on this side of thedas, and bam there is a tornado in tevinter.
I don't think well ever get a real answers as to what ´Hawke meant to the story, but the ripples of his actions can be traced through every part of DA:II, what ever he does, its bound to have some sort of influence, allthough you may not understand when you see it.
Some folks keep saying that Hawke is a cataclyst, i dont really think that theory is viable, just look at him, just arrived in Kirkwall, a templar city(they are practically in control), with an apostate in tow(or being one himself), so he need some sort of protection, his first year is safe, but after that hes on his own, so he tries to gather som cash, deep roads we go, and on the way, he makes ripples, for a lack of better word, and how far these ripples reach, we wont know.
Or, Varric is just sh**ting the seekers

[TheChris92]

shinyelf wrote...

As far as i understand, its all chaos theory, hawke lets out a sigh on this side of thedas, and bam there is a tornado in tevinter.
I don't think well ever get a real answers as to what ´Hawke meant to the story, but the ripples of his actions can be traced through every part of DA:II, what ever he does, its bound to have some sort of influence, allthough you may not understand when you see it.
Some folks keep saying that Hawke is a cataclyst, i dont really think that theory is viable, just look at him, just arrived in Kirkwall, a templar city(they are practically in control), with an apostate in tow(or being one himself), so he need some sort of protection, his first year is safe, but after that hes on his own, so he tries to gather som cash, deep roads we go, and on the way, he makes ripples, for a lack of better word, and how far these ripples reach, we wont know.
Or, Varric is just sh**ting the seekers

Indeed. Hawke gained power, and thus, the scales would always tip in the direction, dependent on how he/she would use that power. Hawke sparked a revolution, equivalent to that of the situation in the Middle East and thats about how far it goes. The story of how a single refugee gained this amount of power, will probably create a sort of scar in the heart of the people and inspire others, such as mages perhaps. This could show that Hawkes actions had a certain amount of importance to the overall story. He/she was partly the kickstarter for a major event. Dragon Age have always been about Thedas, and not a single character, so we probably won't be controlling Hawke again for future sequels. The same goes for the Warden, who set the stage for the world of Thedas, and established a new name for the Grey Wardens and their importance even when the Blight is not threatening the world. We are probably gonna see a lot more characters like him/her. 

Modifié par TheChris92, 28 mars 2011 - 04:31 .