103 réponses à ce sujet

[chiliztri]

I think we should start handing out DA:O Flowers and Puppies Edition.



Some just can't seem to contend with the realistic and mature predicaments dealt with in DA:O.

[Naltair]

chiliztri wrote...

I think we should start handing out DA:O Flowers and Puppies Edition.

Some just can't seem to contend with the realistic and mature predicaments dealt with in DA:O.

I see nothing wrong with being saddened with the ending especially if it surprises you with terrible dark twists.  I think some of the notion that people feel forced is a little presumptious, you make plenty of choices that either put yourself there or don't.

The path to hell or even sadness is often paved with good intentions.  I am glad Bioware maintained that level of integrity with the story.

[chiliztri]

Naltair wrote...


I see nothing wrong with being saddened with the ending especially if it surprises you with terrible dark twists.  I think some of the notion that people feel forced is a little presumptious, you make plenty of choices that either put yourself there or don't.

The path to hell or even sadness is often paved with good intentions.  I am glad Bioware maintained that level of integrity with the story.

There is a difference between being saddened and claiming that the writers wrote that bit of plot twist with the intention of pissing off female players, just because they weren't handed a "happily ever after no one suffers!" ending.

Modifié par chiliztri, 18 novembre 2009 - 03:00 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Walina wrote...

You can't ask a soldier returning from Irak : if you wanna live you've to cheat on your wife!

You can, if there is an Archdemon knocking down his front door...

[Naltair]

Oh I was agreeing with you, I find the complaints somewhat shaky at best.



But I do read them.

[Naltair]

Irak is a wonderful place.

[ReubenLiew]

Yes I don't understand this either.



He actually had a LOT of chances to discuss this with us, specifically when he was resting up in Arl Eamon's estate before the Landsmeet, but I guess it is justifiable that he really didn't know you didn't know, I mean he did mention during the landsmeet that there are... compelling reasons you want more Grey Wardens, and he most likely wants Loghain to sacrifice himself too after all the nonsense he put you through, but alas, hindsight is always 20/20.



Although I can understand why Alistair leaves, considering this is the man that killed the only person in the world he considered as close to family as he could, including people he genuinely felt as friends in the Grey Wardens, but damn I wanted a choice to keep both.



Thank god for autosaves.

[Naltair]

I think Riordan just didn't know that the two last Wardens were clueless about that tidbit. If you talk to Alistair he even tells you that the Grey Wardens don't talk much about these aspects of their lives even with each other so why would he suddenly bring it up until he did when it seemed like victory was in reach.

[EmperorSahlertz]

And we didn't know, that Riordan didn't know, that we didn't know, that he knew! A ha! The plot thickens.

[chiliztri]

Naltair wrote...

Oh I was agreeing with you, I find the complaints somewhat shaky at best.

But I do read them.

I noticed.

I was just trying to further my point that there is a threshold between "sadness" and raging on an internet forum with baseless conjecture.

[Mary Kirby]

chiliztri wrote...


There is a difference between being saddened and claiming that the writers wrote that bit of plot twist with the intention of pissing off female players, just because they weren't handed a "happily ever after no one suffers!" ending.

It's cool.  We feed exclusively on the sweet, sweet tears of anguished players.  It's how we stay trim.  Happiness is fattening.

[kaispan]

raging on the internet with only baseless conjecture?? WHERE







I feel like Morrigan would say something about playing a "Mature" rated game alas does not make one so.

[The Angry One]

It's fortunate I feed on sarcasm then, it's high vitamin content keeps me sustained!

[Pyro_Monkey]

RunCDFirst wrote...
He mentions that the sacrifice is kept a secret for a reason and doesn't seem like he'd want to tell the entire Ferelden court about it.

that's what i don't get, that it's kept secret for a reason, what reason?  I suppose it might make new recruits a bit nervous knowing that they might have to sacrifice themselves to kill the archdemon, but the fact that the older grey wardens usually do it, plus the fact that you death would make you the greatest hero ever known, would certainly offset that.  indeed, the whole conflict in this game (apart from the blight), was that people (Loghain) felt that they didn't need grey wardens to end the blight.  had he known the truth, he would never have tried to kill off all the greay wardens.

[Naltair]

Organizations like their secrets and that particular one is a good one to keep.

[Reiella]

Pyro_Monkey wrote...

RunCDFirst wrote...
He mentions that the sacrifice is kept a secret for a reason and doesn't seem like he'd want to tell the entire Ferelden court about it.

that's what i don't get, that it's kept secret for a reason, what reason?  I suppose it might make new recruits a bit nervous knowing that they might have to sacrifice themselves to kill the archdemon, but the fact that the older grey wardens usually do it, plus the fact that you death would make you the greatest hero ever known, would certainly offset that.  indeed, the whole conflict in this game (apart from the blight), was that people (Loghain) felt that they didn't need grey wardens to end the blight.  had he known the truth, he would never have tried to kill off all the greay wardens.

Because bad stuff will happen if they secret gets out.  I don't much like that plot point myself, but it does establish the wardens as a clandestine organization.  Unforunately, I dread to think what ends the Wardens would let themselves be blackmailed to keep that secret.

[AtreiyaN7]

LOL - I love Mary's response. Ahem, seriously though, I was fine with the whole sacrifice thing after my initial, shock and brief period of heartbreak. I came around and found it quite poignant when Alastair saves you if you go down the whole force Alistair to be king route  (I mean, he DOES admit he still loves you and that he was an idiot in the end *sniffle*).

I also thought that it was very clever that "doing the right thing" (or what you THINK is the right thing) doesn't always result in happiness as someone else said up there. One example is choosing Harrowmont (nice guy) over Bhelen (evil guy); things don't exactly go well with Harrowmont leading (albeit Bhelen's rule isn't great either but offers freedom from the caste system for a time at least).

Back to the ending however: the fact is, that if you accept Morrigan's offer and make a few other different choices, the people complaining about the sad, heartbreaking ending can get a nice, happy ending (listen to what Alistair wants instead of forcing him into being king, for one thing  ).

It's always your choice, and if you want to take the road that leads to unhappy-ending-land, so hey, don't blast the writers. They did a good job to have made us feel so attached to the characters, AND they definitely gave us outs to get to a happy ending. As for me, I just merrily used my magical reload button to start over from the first important decision in the Landsmeet chain, and I got my happy ending. I don't even mind the Morrigan thing quite as much now that I'm used to the idea and after what I feel were enlightening conversations with her towards the end  (although I still cringe when I have to watch the Alistair and Morrigan together, blargh).

As for Riordan, how would he know you didn't know about the sacrifice? Pfft, he's been in a dungeon and then went off scouting for a while. I don't think he had time to chat your character up while trying to do important reconnaisance, sheesh.

[Eshaye]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I don't even mind the Morrigan thing quite as much now that I'm used to the idea and after what I feel were enlightening conversations with her towards the end  (although I still cringe when I have to watch the Alistair and Morrigan together, blargh).

LOL! Yeah my character was fine with letting her lover bed Morrigan to save both their lives, but as the scene started I was like: What they are going to have me watch??!! And did I see a slight grin on Alistair's face? Hmph!

ha ha  

[David Gaider]

Eshaye wrote...
LOL! Yeah my character was fine with letting her lover bed Morrigan to save both their lives, but as the scene started I was like: What they are going to have me watch??!! And did I see a slight grin on Alistair's face? Hmph!

ha ha  

Yeah, we thought about that. It just didn't seem to cut it to have a fade to black followed by Alistair/Loghain coming back and going "All done! Gee, that was awkward!" I must admit that the thought of our intensely -- like, really *really* intensely -- emotionally invested players treating the scene like it was Horror Incarnate, but there you go.

[IronVanguard]

Haasth wrote...

In Ferelden it indeed seems to be common to not inform your apprentices of vital information, and let them find out for themselves. Regardless of how many trouble you could have saved them in the process.

Of course. They're Ferelden.
They're this close to being barbarians, they smell like wet dog, and they let kids figure everything out themselves.

[CChocobo]

I have to add my 2 cents in here. Of course you're not going to know everything from the start. The PC is a new recruit after all, and Alistair isn't necessarily a "seasoned" Grey Warden. Not as long as Duncan. Considering the secrecy, of course there's things even the.. *gasp* two recruits don't know! So of course you find out later on, it's what adds a twist in the story, it makes you choose. And isn't that what this game is about? choice? I think it was brilliant what the writers did. It was a real twist and it came down to, who do i sacrifice? or "do i make a baby to save myself and my comrade" In my case it was easy, as i was already romancing morrigan and figured one last night together better than none! haha.

Also, yes the romances didn't end as a "happily ever after" but thats what makes it good. Sure it would have been great to have my PC go on to become the hero of Ferelden with Morrigan by his side. But she had her reasons for going, just like my PC had reasons to marry Anora. It's roleplaying, you shouldn't feel betrayed or crushed that it's not a fairytale. Put yourselves in their shoes, in this land, in this time. There's evil about, the land had ongoing threats, not just from the blight, but internally, amongst humans, elves, it is very much dark times. Don't expect your hero to settle down have kids marry Leliana or alistair and go on their merry way. Yes you enjoyed something with one of the companions, is it over? Probably not, remember this is only one part of a bigger story. But also keep in mind it is a dark story, this isn't The Sims, or a "hero saves the world. gets the girl" cliche type adventure. Yes it would have been nice to have a "happy" ending but the writers obviously made certain things happen for a reason, that there's more to this story, to there character's stories than we saw in Origins.
*end rant*

Just my 2 cents. Thankyou BioWare for making one of the greatest RPG games i have played. Takes me back to when i was a teen playing baldurs gate series on my old PC haha. Thanks guys, can't wait to see where you take the story in the next game!

Modifié par Zer0cool040, 18 novembre 2009 - 04:43 .

[Iseo Tiakan]

I think the point to take away from this thread is that Riordan is the worst Grey Warden ever.

[Taritu]

Funny, when i saw his dragon leap I actually thought about going to the forums and starting a "Riordan is a bad ass" thread. Sure, he didn't kill it, but what an amazing attempt.

[Niten Ryu]

Haasth wrote...

In Ferelden it indeed seems to be common to not inform your apprentices of vital information, and let them find out for themselves. Regardless of how many trouble you could have saved them in the process.

Well said

This situation created nice roleplaying options for me and in the end, it was more important to keep queen away from the throne then to keep my character alive. Queen's father dead, didn't want to Morrigan to give birth potentially terrible evil and bastard king must survive. So to keep manipulative **** away from the throne, my character needed to die. One of the best endings I've had in any game. Writing and plot lines might be shoddy but end result great.

[Iseo Tiakan]

Vaeliorin wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
I guess they really wanted to force the issue of someone giving that evil witch her demon baby.

That's what Dog (aka Rabbit) is for.  He's tainted, Morrigan turns into a dog when you tell her that you're not going to do the whole ritual thing...

Or am I the only one who thought that's what was going on there?

Of all the wild theories about this game that I've read since release, this is the most plausible. And it frightens me.

It's the perfect answer to "How do we make sure that, regardless of player choices, Morrigan is the proud mother of an Old God in the sequel?"