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[Dessicator2]

Does threat work properly in the game?

I was playing a melee Rogue and had Aveline, Varric and Merril. I was at Sundermount during the quest where two Revenants spawn half way up. I was going to have Aveline tank one and use CC and DPS to handle the other. So I tell Aveline to attack one and focus my party on the other. So there are no heals or AoEs going around to generate threat on Aveline's target. But then for no apparent reason, it runs away from Aveline and goes after... one of my ranged, I can't remember which now.

Lots of situations like this occur, where random mobs who aren't being attacked switch targets from my tank to one of my ranged. Also it seems that abilities like Taunt and Goad don't work most of the time.

And another thing... when I initially aggro a room, if nobody attacks any of the enemies, shouldn't they by default go for the tank, since according to the loading screens heavy armor generates threat?

Is there some kind of secret mystery threat being generated that I don't know about?

[RaenImrahl]

There's a lengthy discussion on this in the registered game owner's general forum... you might find that of interest.

[Tomomi]

RaenImrahl wrote...

There's a lengthy discussion on this in the registered game owner's general forum... you might find that of interest.

It would be nice if you can post a link.

Meanwhile, I really do not trust the threat thing.  I started playing Hard, now I play Nightmare. I have tried with both Aveline and myself (2h warrior) as tank.  2h warrior tank seems to have little issue of threat because things die a lot faster. But as we know of DA2, things always pop out mid battle in all direction, so my tank would have to run and grab them.  My 2h warrior would hit each of them twice, and move on to next. This would have been easier since she hits hard.

But I believe the OP's question is regarding Aveline's conventional tanking. That is where the problem begins. Before my warrior I started with mage and played it as if it was DA:O. But Hard/Nightmare mode in DA2 is not that simple, I don't need to elaborate much in this regard but mainly it is about the knock/stun lock against anyone without very high strength (not warrior), short CC time with long cooldowns, among other things. Which means it is imperative that Aveline must hold threat very well and or it can be fatal. When dealing with multiple advanced mobs (golems, shades, revenant, rage demon, etc...) Aveline has a hard job to do. Not only she has to hold them, but she also has to grab them off others when they popped out all over the room. Read this: there are instances Aveline chased a rage demon all over the room, Shield Bash, Taunt, Bravery on, and the Rage demon would not let go of its target. It's a scary/silly sight. 

I still have concern of this issue but currently I am playing as 2h warrior so it is Easy mode Nightmare (where the hardest part is to avoid friendly fire from the warrior herself). If your char is not a warrior, Fenris can replace you, although he is not as strong because of the lack of armor comparing to Hawke (Fenris' armor is so weak comparing to what my Hawke has right now). But anyway, this is off topic.

Modifié par Tomomi, 27 mars 2011 - 08:00 .

[Dessicator2]

http://social.biowar...5/index/6758343

Too many people in there talking about things like you can't hold aggro because NPCs think like humans and go after mages/healers.... even though this is a game and they're AI and programmed to respond to threat controls, and my whole point is that those don't seem to be working in a lot of cases.

I'd rather just alert the developers that there are bugs in the threat mechanics and stay away from those weirdos.

[Tomomi]

Dessicator2 wrote...

http://social.biowar...5/index/6758343

Too many people in there talking about things like you can't hold aggro because NPCs think like humans and go after mages/healers.... even though this is a game and they're AI and programmed to respond to threat controls, and my whole point is that those don't seem to be working in a lot of cases.

I'd rather just alert the developers that there are bugs in the threat mechanics and stay away from those weirdos.

I doubt we will experience human like AI in such a game. Not saying Bioware is not capable of doing so, but rather it is really not feasible to spend the extra time and man power to research a super intelligent AI system completely with learn-and-adapt abilities and whatnot.  I am not too happy with the current threat system as I said earlier about how funny Aveline using all abilities could not get the golem's attention. First, threat calculation is always a myth to us players. It is not easy for us to tell apart whether this is "working as intended" or a glitch.

The game is still new.  Give it time and someone will narrow down some solid formula.  And I am going to read through this 3 page long of the link you sent.

Edit: To make things more realistic (instead of having us players take advantage of completely dumb AI), Bioware may have drop aggro functions. It is quite common in other games like WoW.  In WoW, at certain boss fight, the raid leaders will tell you "when he does this, everyone stop fighting to let the tank grab aggro again".  Sure those crazy WoW players have it down to a science.  It is not a surprise if Bioware implements this.  "Maybe a random aggro drop from a mob will make things more interesting", and less repetitive like "run in, grab all mobs, AE them down, move on to next fight."

So far though, I have yet to see mobs going after someone totally not on the aggro list (didn't do anything the whole fight).  So I can also guess how Bioware implements preference in aggro.  Like Shale in DA:O absolutely hates birds with a passion.  Such idea would entertain Bioware's designers as each mob has its own quirk.  Templars love to go after mages (having higher threat multiplier against mages) or golems hate magic, or mages hate rogues, or melee hates healers.  It somewhat explains why I have a harder time keeping Anders alive, while Merrill survives most battles without attracting too much attention. Sure she has higher HP being blood mage and a Stoneskin, but Nightmare mobs would have no problem reducing her to pulps if I am not careful.  Yet I find Anders always in trouble far more often than Merrill even Merrill casts way more damaging spells.  Maybe to certain mobs, casting 1 Heal spell accumulates 2x to 3x more threat than casting 3 Lightning combined.

Once again, just a speculation.

Modifié par Tomomi, 27 mars 2011 - 10:32 .