156 réponses à ce sujet

[5Warlocks]

Constitution and Willpower are not as valuable as the damage-modifying statistics--even in the case of a tank, you are better off boosting Dexterity to increase both Defense and Attack rather than devoting points purely to achieving a higher HP pool, past about 20-25 Constitution depending on your difficulty of choice.



I'm not sure this is too much of a problem, though. "Not as good" certainly doesn't equal "garbage."



Personally, I would like to see Stamina based off of Constitution rather than Willpower and just allow it to be an almost purely Mage-oriented statistic like Magic is, but this comes down to aesthetic preference more than anything else.

[Kelston]

kormesios wrote...
I honestly don't understand why this is perceived as a problem by so many on the thread.

I accept the argument that mages need mostly two stats, and rogues and warriors need to be somewhat more well-rounded.  That's what I've observed while playing.

I just don't see why it's bad in the least.  The best possible fighter has different stat distribution than the best possible mage, OK, that describes the difference between the two.  Then people say it should be fixed, that's where I scratch my head.

Other than minor points about it making mages more boring to level up, I can't think of anything.  Is it a balance thing, in the sense of super high magic means you're more powerful than a warrior?  Then it's still not a "stats" problem, just class abilities.

The problem is simple.

Because the game is artificially capped at level 25 (though probably 22-23, realistically), you have a limited number of attribute points you could possibly spend.

As a result, no matter what, a class that only views 2 statistics as important will always be superior to a class that views 3 or 4 statistics as important because your choice is to divide your limited total attribute points by 2 or divide it by 4.

This doesn't even touch on class-specific abilities. Even if all the abilities could theoretically do the same damage or mitigation, a class that relies on 2 stats will be better off because they can pump their primary statistics much higher than the class that relies on more than 2 stats.

How could you possibly not see it as a problem? If you won the lottery, you have the option of being the sole winner or you could split the same pot with 3 other winners. With everything but the number of winners being equal, under what circumstance would you see yourself getting an equal amount of money in either scenario such that your choice doesn't matter? Because that's what you presented here and it makes absolutely no sense.

Maybe you should spend less time scratching your head and devoting that energy to actually think for a second. It's not that difficult a concept.

[kormesios]

Odd Hermit wrote...

Bluesmith wrote...

kormesios wrote...
Other than minor points about it making mages more boring to level up, I can't think of anything.  Is it a balance thing, in the sense of super high magic means you're more powerful than a warrior?  Then it's still not a "stats" problem, just class abilities.

This disparity results in 
a) itemization problems
artificially low stam for melee classes
among other things.

It also makes warriors/rogues less interesting, because on top of not having as many activated abilities as mages, they are only able to use them a few times before running out of stamina.

I don't know what "itemization problems" means.  Not being able to equip, maybe?

"Artificially low stamina" is begging the question.  If the typical warrior/rogue has 20 willpower providing stamina, then it's not artificially low stamina.  It is, by definition, typical stamina.

OK, the "warriors rogues are less fun because they run out of stamina" I understand and agree with (more or less.)  Especially shield types, who up to this point in my play activate defensive abilities then do nothing.

But none of this is because the 4 stats for rogues/warriors is worse than the two for mages.  You could keep the stat system exactly the same and simply reduce the stamina cost for their abilities.  (It'd be a little more complicated, since then they'd be more powerful  as well as more fun, which I don't think is warranted.)

[Cirellion_Malevar]

Kelston wrote...
Even if all the abilities could theoretically do the same damage or mitigation, a class that relies on 2 stats will be better off because they can pump their primary statistics much higher than the class that relies on more than 2 stats.

How could you possibly not see it as a problem? If you won the lottery, you have the option of being the sole winner or you could split the same pot with 3 other winners. With everything but the number of winners being equal, under what circumstance would you see yourself getting an equal amount of money in either scenario such that your choice doesn't matter? Because that's what you presented here and it makes absolutely no sense.

Maybe you should spend less time scratching your head and devoting that energy to actually think for a second. It's not that difficult a concept.

Kelston, your anology of the lottery is invalid. A lottery award shared by three winners would equate to an ability point award shared by 3 characters. Your anology draws a parellel between the recipient of the award on one side and amount of the award on the other side, instead of keeping recipients parallel and awards parallel.

I think what many folks aren't keeping in mind is that there is more to the game than just combat, and there is more to combat than just dps.

You have to ask yourself what point distribution is needed for any given character type to do its job well, whatever that job happens to be. The reality is that warriors and rogues do their jobs well in a traditional build by dividing their points among 3 or 4 abilities, because the game simply doesn't require them to have higher, more specialized totals for them to do so. 

Players who prefer to play mages could just as easily say that the stat distribution is "broken" because they should be able to spend less in magic and will power, still deliver great dps in combat, and have the option to spend some points elsewhere so that they can also excel at other things such as wearing armor or picking locks.

[asaiasai]

I think for a single player game "BALANCE" is not as critical as if the game was multiplayer, because mobs do not whine because a mage or warrior is OP, they just die like all good dark spawn should. I do agree that the game should have had some way to rearrainge your skill points if only one time, but it is not a game breaker at least for me. The skills do seem a bit linear, it is decided entirely upon the class you intend to play and the way you intend to play. I am now currently on my 4th play through and so far i really have no serious issues with the point system other than i can not reassign the points once placed forcing me to rereun the same class using a different spec. I do agree with the statement that the effectivness of pots (health and mana) should be dicated by the maker not the user, but it seems for me that this makes magic a viable stat for a tank as well. Using more pots to heal a tank means that as the player you have to decide what you points or cash. As i said earlier in this reply "BALANCE" for a single player experience is not necessary because as the only player in the game you can decide how you want to spec your character, and no one has any reason to complain and if you have found that "MAGIC" point ratio where you are unstoppable you can decide to either jack up the skill level or not make that build. The only person you compete with is yourself and you decide how much of a challange you desrie by the variables already present in the game.



Asai

[surrealitycheck]

Players who prefer to play mages could just as easily say that the
stat distribution is "broken" because they should be able to spend less
in magic and will power, still deliver great dps in combat, and have
the option to spend some points elsewhere so that they can also excel
at other things such as wearing armor or picking locks.

Except they can do that by putting points in Arcane Warrior. And hey presto, magic turns into strength!

[Kelston]

Cirellion_Malevar wrote...

Kelston, your anology of the lottery is invalid. A lottery award shared by three winners would equate to an ability point award shared by 3 characters. Your anology draws a parellel between the recipient of the award on one side and amount of the award on the other side, instead of keeping recipients parallel and awards parallel.

I think what many folks aren't keeping in mind is that there is more to the game than just combat, and there is more to combat than just dps.

You have to ask yourself what point distribution is needed for any given character type to do its job well, whatever that job happens to be. The reality is that warriors and rogues do their jobs well in a traditional build by dividing their points among 3 or 4 abilities, because the game simply doesn't require them to have higher, more specialized totals for them to do so. 

Players who prefer to play mages could just as easily say that the stat distribution is "broken" because they should be able to spend less in magic and will power, still deliver great dps in combat, and have the option to spend some points elsewhere so that they can also excel at other things such as wearing armor or picking locks.

There is nothing wrong with the lottery analogy probably because you are an idiot because you pointed to mage players that wanted to pick locks and being unable to as a problem while you view warriors that have to raise the magic stat as not a problem.

Let me simplify the lottery analogy for you:

WHAT IS BIGGER? ONE HALF OR ONE THIRD?

Is this where you point out that there is a flaw in that question too because the question mark is not question mark-like?