148 réponses à ce sujet

[knownastherat]

It almost deserves an essay called: Bioware evolution, essay I will not write.

What I would like is to voice my opinion that in single player game players should be as free as possible to do whatever they want. CCC, Cross class Combos, are wonderful mechanics for MMO where cooperation is essential to what I call the "social factor" which is essential to MMO. In single player such mechanics unnecessarily complicate matters.

If one wants to solo mage or if one wants to run all warrior party for example, why not? Why to force players to team synergies of certain kind?

I believe there are answers to such questions, probably best known to marketing department. I do like DA2, I do like playing mage, and I do think that geniuses work for Bioware, but there is no question in my mind that there is much less "freedom" in DA2 than there was in previous Bioware games, Baldur's Gate series and Origins in particular.

Modifié par knownastherat, 27 mars 2011 - 01:54 .

[Talladarr]

As much as I hate to say it, the eeasiest way to do massive damage as a mage is to use Fenris alot. Get him the right skills and set up his tactics right,he'll Stagger at least one enemy EVERY 1-2 seconds, usually I get 2-3 staggers in 1-2 seconds, and I take advantage as much I can. Wit hthese combos, plus other skills that the MAge can do like Brittle allow the Warriors and Rogues to do extra damage. You just gotta work in tangent wiht the new system.
Also, you have to learn to take advantage of the few beneficial glitches. For warriors, there are a number of sustained abilities that are NOT supposed ot be able to work at the same time(Such as Control and Might) that if you cast them close enough together(Casting the second while the first is still blinking) BOTH will be active at the same time.
The Rogues have the same glitch wiht the ENTIRE Specialist tree, allowing Speed, Precision, and Power to all be active at the SAME TIME. However, having all three DOES drain your stamina(takes up 55%) allowing for very few abilities to be used unless you have the Follow Through passive ability form the Scoundrel tree, and the skill in the Assassin tree(I cant see what it's called right now, I'm looking at these on Isabella) that pulls 5% stamina from each kill. If you do not have bth of these I wouldn't suggest using all three sustains i nthe Specialist Tree at the same time in concurrence with any other sustained abilities. However, havingt all three active at once makes normal attacks beastly, being extremely fast and having high critical chance.

There are other sustained combination that aren't supposed ot work together,. but if casted in quick enough succession they will. As far as I know Mages don't have any sustained combinations like this.

[Roxlimn]

knownastherat:

You can solo the game, as a Mage, and you'll destroy anything and everything in seconds. This setting is called "Casual." It's the topmost option in the difficulty settings. You can play the game like that. No one is preventing you, and no one will judge you.

[Talladarr]

Roxlimn wrote...

knownastherat:

You can solo the game, as a Mage, and you'll destroy anything and everything in seconds. This setting is called "Casual." It's the topmost option in the difficulty settings. You can play the game like that. No one is preventing you, and no one will judge you.

I always play normal really. I just like having fun and getting achievements, not "being the best because I can solo on nightmare"

[Roxlimn]

Talladar:

I actually used Staggeriffic Fenris + Aveline. They were producing so many Staggers together that two Chain Lightnings (one on Merrill, one on Hawke) and a fully upgraded Fist of the Maker weren't exploiting every one. The general damage output is outstanding.

It's just too bad that Brittle and Disorient can't be used with such impunity.

I liked playing Normal for a while.  Then it got boring because I was obliterating everything.  No exaggeration, not kidding, not bragging.

Once I got Gravitic Ring and combo'd it with Tempest and Firestorm, it was like having Storm of the Century all over again.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 27 mars 2011 - 02:06 .

[Talladarr]

Yeah, I understand that,but I can't do without a rogue for traps and chests, and I'm used to playing with 2 mages >.<
[[EDIT]]
What happened since DA:O to make raising the dead Blood Magic? That used ot be a Spirit spell coming after Virulent Waking Bomb

Modifié par Talladarr, 27 mars 2011 - 02:08 .

[Roxlimn]

Talladar:

The party build with a Rogue is only slightly different. You don't have as many Staggers to exploit, but that's okay because a third of your Stagger exploits are gone anyway. Varric allows you to snipe away faraway targets with Winter's Blast + Shattering Arrow or Archer's Lance. Either option will also exploit your Cone of Cold.

The other half of Varric's power is his autoattack damage with Bianca's Song active, so might want to pick up the easy Elemental Weapon for the autoattack damage boost.

[Talladarr]

I'm using Isabella this time around, she's quite handy, plus should my mage fall, I'm good with DW rogues, and I builder her the way I'd build my own rogue, minus the specialazations of course

[Nukenin]

Heh. Magicians.

Man up and play Casual!

[knownastherat]

@Talladarr: Point taken, however, and despite my wording "to solo on NM" is not the sole point.

If a game is balanced around for example:

A does X damage
B does Y damage
C does Z damage

then it is essentially a different game (mechanics) from being balanced around:

A + B does X damage
B + C does Y damage
A + C does Z damage

[Talladarr]

I suppose that is a good point.
On a side note, I just tested it-- Battle Synergy and Bravery(two skills that arn't supposed ot work together) CANNOT be cast and sustained at the same time(they cont blink when first cast) If you're going for more Staggers, go with Bravery, if you just want the warrior to pull more aggro, use BAttle Synergy (Tested on Carver)

Modifié par Talladarr, 27 mars 2011 - 03:02 .

[Gloxgasm]

Spirit: 8
Primal: 8
Force: 2
Fill in the rest with what you want.
Hit mobs with the element they are weak against.

[Malevolence65]

Yeah, mages do seem kinda weak, even on hard difficulty. The only class that they really do more damage than is a sword and shield warrior, even if you take into account AoE spells.

[Gloxgasm]

Malevolence65 wrote...

Yeah, mages do seem kinda weak, even on hard difficulty. The only class that they really do more damage than is a sword and shield warrior, even if you take into account AoE spells.

You are building both a mage and a SnS warrior incorrectly =/

[Malevolence65]

Gloxgasm wrote...

Malevolence65 wrote...

Yeah, mages do seem kinda weak, even on hard difficulty. The only class that they really do more damage than is a sword and shield warrior, even if you take into account AoE spells.

You are building both a mage and a SnS warrior incorrectly =/

I don't think that I am. I breeze through the game on hard, I must be doing something right.

[Gloxgasm]

SnS warriors do a lot of damage, as do mages.

[Malevolence65]

Gloxgasm wrote...

SnS warriors do a lot of damage, as do mages.

Sword and shield warriors don't do a lot of damage. I keep my constitution and strength equal and don't put points in anything else and my warrior's dps is always the lowest of my entire party.

[Gloxgasm]

If you say so...

[Roxlimn]

Malevolence65 wrote...

Gloxgasm wrote...

SnS warriors do a lot of damage, as do mages.

Sword and shield warriors don't do a lot of damage. I keep my constitution and strength equal and don't put points in anything else and my warrior's dps is always the lowest of my entire party.

Use a better sword.

[Bratinov]

Get Unshakable ASAP, otherwise a single ant can stun-lock and juggle you until dead...
Fireball is a joke, cone of cold is less usefull, tempest is bugged, I think...
Pure blood mages are forever ruined since they cant use most robes.
The most ridiculous thing is common street thugs have full elemental resistance against certain attacks, yeah a filthy hobo cant be hurt by fire WTF, not to mention most high level staffs are fire based ughh.
To add insult to injury enemy mages can destroy the entire party with a singe sneeze!!

Modifié par Bratinov, 27 mars 2011 - 05:07 .

[Zhijn]

You could head to nexus and see if u can find a mod that boost mages.

Im using this for my blood mage (removes willpower on all mage gear):
http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=2413

Makes for a hole new expirence as a blood mage. =P

[Bratinov]

That would be cheating

[Zan Mura]

cloudblade70 wrote...

"So maybe I am just terrible and need to learn to play."

This.

Yes, that helps. If you claim the expertise to be able to say with any credibility that he needs to learn to play, then you would also know that he has a point. Since you don't, I can only assume that you also need to learn to play.


Well, not quite. Mages can be specced in a multitude of useful ways, but as is the OP's beef, they are NOT primary nukers the same way they are in most other games. DA2 is controversial in that where according to lore, mages are incredibly powerful... in the actual gameplay the artificial scaling and balance makes sure that while enemy mages are indeed every bit as fatal as they're given credit for, your mages will never be.

You will be mostly a utility character. A damned useful one, but still just a utility. Basically, your primary job is to debuff enemies, buff and heal friends, and set up and abuse cross class combos (CCC's, for short). With a few exceptions. Following is a very simplified short list of examples that will buff your mage damage, depending on what you want. Naturally there's more but this should give you the general idea.

• Cone of Cold or Winter's Grasp are decent damage AND great CCC spells, setting the enemy up for BRITTLE, for your warriors and rogues to use for extreme damage.
• One of the most basic things is putting the 3 points to Primal so you get upgraded Chain Lightning. It works great with tanks and 2h's with their STAGGER inducing attacks.
• One of the best ways to experience extreme personal nuking power, as you could as a mage in DA or BG etc, is to go Force Mage: Using Gravitic Ring, Pull of the Abyss, and then following that with AoE's like Fire Storm, Tempest perhaps Walking Bomb etc, you can create a zone of pure death where enemies cannot more and cannot retaliate. All solo with no help from others.

[Zan Mura]

Bratinov wrote...

That would be cheating

Actually, mods aren't cheating. Granted, you can't really claim you beat the vanilla game when you had it modded, but the very definition and purpose of mods is to improve and expand upon the original game. ALL games that have modding communities, benefit greatly from them precisely because oversights, flaws, inconsistencies etc tend to get fixed.

[Metalheadisme]

There are interesting takes on the issue here. My opinion is that the fun of builds in the game is choices.

A warrior can choose an AOE staggering/brittle-capitalizing machine 2H or a battlefield controlling, damage soaking SnS. There are smatterings of other abilities to include which bridge the gap between the two. Either way, a warrior has the hp and armor to be survivable with whatever the chosen build may be.

A rogue can go bow for great dps and AoE or daggers for even better single target dps. Throw in some great mechanics like stealth and some mildly effective CC and you can have some interesting builds. They are also useful for traps and chests. Their hp and armor isn't a warrior's, but that's the price of flexibility and they have abilities to clear threat.

Mages are supposed to be the most flexible class to build, but they pay for it with their sheer squishiness. You can be a damager, debuffer, buffer, controller, healer, or some combination of them. I think the main issue is with the "damager" choice because of its reliance on CCC, high cooldowns, and the ramping up of resists.

Personally, I dont think a super buffing of mages is really necessary, but I think a few items would help:

1) The fire line of spells needs some help. Fireball needs more damage. Perhaps adding a fire burn DoT or adding more damage via Disorient CCC would help, bringing me to #2
2) Rogues need to more reliably be able to apply Disorient.
3) Overall, perhaps bring up the base damage of many spells, but bring down the bonus from CCC.
4) Make our magic stat really count on Nightmare for penetrating resists. If I only get my willpower to 32, ignore con, and just pump magic, I should be able to penetrate a lot more enemies with my spells.