148 réponses à ce sujet

[Roxlimn]

Besetment:

Actually, AreleX's videos also show that NPC Mages on Tactics are NOT good at applying chain lightning. In most of his vids, Merrill kills one, maybe two targets with Stagger because he's applying it with Cleave or Sunder (those seem to last shorter). The one time Merrill ganks a whole bunch of guys, he's amazed at the effect.

This is how most of my encounters as Mage Hawke go. Not some, not 50/50. Most. As long as the enemies are humanoid and my Pull can pull them, they're all going to get Staggered in short order and they're all going to die.

Even where enemies are not humanoid, using Aveline and Fenris together requires controlling them both, since they'll otherwise kill each other (stupid Fighter AI!). When I'm playing Mage Hawke, I make it a practice to remove Chain Lightning from Tactics because Hawke otherwise has a bad habit of using it to kill one dude when he could've killed three or four if he just waited a second longer.

I don't auto Fist of the Maker for the same reason - I want to finish painting the Staggers before the exploit goes off.

Zan Mura:

And opinion. And the fact that to a lot of us, friendly fire is essential for a good game feel. Which brings us back to the design, considering casual doesn't allow for friendly fire. Anyway Roxlimn's logic fails because even if you didn't care about FF or the general difficulty, toning down to casual will not fix the relative difference in power. Sure, your mage might finally be a decent nuker, but on the other hand, that 2h becomes a frigging God capable of soloing anything in mere instants. So the end result is the same: the mage will feel gimped compared to the others.

Nonsense. The game is single player, not competitive. If your 2H Warrior feels too strong on the setting, you change it to compensate. The mage is more than a "decent nuker" on Casual. With a Staff of Parthalan, you could solo the game on Casual with an Elemental Mage with no problems whatsoever.

I can get behind adding Friendly Fire on lower difficulty settings, but that only makes Mages weaker, not stronger.

Saying this one last time: Mages are not weak or useless in DA2, they are very important. But their role TYPE is not like what many of us would want. Their role is *inconsistent* with the lore, with the enemy mages, with DAO. That some of us want to change that, is not a question of skill. I've passed the game on normal and twice on nightmare with a mage, mage and rogue, respectively, and two nightmare mid-games that are still unfinished, with a warrior and another mage. So if you want to stroke your proverbial epeen, please continue doing so. If you wish to actually discuss the issue here, then understand that it's simply a matter of opinion that a lot of us share, that the player-controlled mages do not possess the personal power we feel they should. Not a matter of skill.

If all mages in Thedas were as weak in personal power as the player's mages in DA2. Then there would be no Circle, or Templars keeping these "powerful beings" in check, because 2h warriors and rogues would easily dominate most of them.

Also nonsense. It makes no sense to apply difficulty settings to the LORE! We don't specifically know what lore says, but it's definitely not Nightmare! It's probably Normal, where Mages have all the direct nuking power you could possibly want.

These settings are GAME settings, not LORE settings. On Casual, Mage Hawke will destroy anything and everything. Is that canon? Probably not.

Finally, Hawke herself is a special case. She destroys everything and everyone regardless of what class she is, so we can't make generalizations about relationships of other peeps in Thedas based on how powerful Hawke's class incarnations are. No NPC Rogue or 2H Warrior will stand up to Hawke regardless of what she is.

What you want is for Mages to feel more powerful. The solution is simple: turn down the difficulty setting. This is not an epeen statement. It's a logical one. Change the settings to get the result you want. You'd do that with your video resolution, so I don't see why you can't do that with the difficulty. You don't like your experience with Mage Hawke on Nightmare. Why are you playing on that setting, then? For bragging rights? I don't care. Nobody does.

Making the Mage much more powerful only marginalizes those of us who like it this way. I like it that my Mage needs Fighters to man the frontline combat on Nightmare - it's consistent with fantasy tropes. I like it that Fighters need Mage support on Nightmare - that's also consistent with fantasy. If you want your Hawk to be more powerful, play on Casual. Everybody happy, right?

Or do you mind for some reason if you're playing on Casual? Make you insecure about your gaming cred?

Modifié par Roxlimn, 28 mars 2011 - 02:13 .

[Roxlimn]

knownastherat wrote...

Falco and Peppy

So .. everyone is fine with CCCs, as mechanics? Say in every Bioware game from now on if one will want to press a button for something awesome to happen, to quote the maker, one will need someone else, be it AI, to press a button prior to it? Because I am not really sure I do like it all that much.

You don't need to use CCCs on Normal.  A Mage Hawke with Gravitic Ring and a full Elemental tree will obliterate nearly every encounter on Normal by himself.  CCCs are advanced techniques meant to be enjoyed by players who want a more involved experience.  For those of you who want to press "I win" buttons, there's Normal and Casual.

[rumination888]

knownastherat wrote...

Falco and Peppy

So .. everyone is fine with CCCs, as mechanics? Say in every Bioware game from now on if one will want to press a button for something awesome to happen, to quote the maker, one will need someone else, be it AI, to press a button prior to it? Because I am not really sure I do like it all that much.

All those warrior vids you see require someone else(the AI) to press a button prior to the warrior killing stuff.
I don't see the problem.
...or do you actually think those warrior vids are capable of doing what they do while solo?

[knownastherat]

I guess I am failing to demonstrate, what I see as, a shift in game mechanics, when one class needs other classes to perform at the top of it's potential.

Yes, I do know that on lower difficulties I could slack, and yes I do know this goes for all classes. Anyway, forget I said anything and carry on.

edit: and yes I do understnad it does not bother those who know nothing else. If DA2 was new to me, I would not know anything else, I could not be bothered simply because I had nothing to compare it with. I even understand it does not bother some of  those who know something else, who are not new to RPGs. So tell me something I do not know ..

Modifié par knownastherat, 28 mars 2011 - 02:35 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

knownastherat wrote...

I guess I am failing to demonstrate, what I see as, a shift in game mechanics, when one class needs other classes to perform at the top of it's potential.

Yes, I do know that on lower difficulties I could slack, and yes I do know this goes for all classes. Anyway, forget I said anything and carry on.

edit: and yes I do understnad it does not bother those who know nothing else. If DA2 was new to me, I would not know anything else, I could not be bothered simply because I had nothing to compare it with. I even understand it does not bother some of  those who know something else, who are not new to RPGs. So tell me something I do not know ..

No, he knows what you are saying. His solution is always "turn down the difficulty setting" and mages will work as advertised. He said the same thing about adpets in ME2. He is acts like he is an apologist for any criticism of a Bioware game.

Anyways, lots of folks who love to play mages don't like the way mages play in DA2 so you are not alone by any means. Whether or not Bioware will do a balance patch remains to be seen. They are surely seeing the numerous posts complaining about the way mages have been implemented but that was the case with adepts in ME 2 also. Just keep on expressing your viewpoints and don't let fanbois intimidate you.

[knownastherat]

It is not, primarily, what I would call criticisms. So Bioware has decided to abandon spell combos from Origins for Cross class Combos in DA2. Fine, nothing wrong with fiddling with stuff. I was not using spell combos, except perhaps Glyphs, much in Origins anyway as they felt overpowered, hmm not fitting my play style.

I was curious how others feel about this "CCC philosophy". If it is a non-issue for most, it is fine with me. Maybe Adpets in ME3 will not perform Warp explosions on their own but will need Engineer for it, what do I know.

I am not saying CCCs are necessarily and always bad, just not sure if to balance game-play around it is ideal. Was looking for input, food for a thought, not for an argument.

[MAUK]

So far i have respecd my mage like 9 times and i am on my second playthrough...first time around was with a 2h war. But my mage build is getting to be a bit of a hastle for me. Entropy was a good build to get rid of mobs quickly but all that i was doing was debuffing. Sure you get the extra crit increase on mobs but i dont want to spend my time playing just debuffing everyone!!! I want to ****en nuke em all!!! i also tried spirit...which wasnt to bad except for the lack of attack spells!!! So i went Spirit/Force mage. K i dont know what the hell they were thinking with Force Mage but that spec blows hard! most of the time it doesnt even look like the force spells do anything beside knock em back or stun. I think i am gonna just go with Spirit/Elemental though...the mana regen u get in spirit is awesome and walking bomb is just fun to see proc. If you want to heal i have been healing and dpsing by just putting 2 points in Creation. All i need is the one heal spell (upgraded)and i dps the rest of the way. Seems to work out just fine for me. I have already killed the first dragon with the Spirit/Force Mage build with just the one heal spell and it works out rather well. Also i noticed later on in the game there alot of mobs planting debuffs on your party and cleanse magic removes (spell)debuffs and heals (target)party members. Try it out some1 and see what ya think. Thank yo goodnight!

[nicodeemus327]

knownastherat wrote...

It is not, primarily, what I would call criticisms. So Bioware has decided to abandon spell combos from Origins for Cross class Combos in DA2. Fine, nothing wrong with fiddling with stuff. I was not using spell combos, except perhaps Glyphs, much in Origins anyway as they felt overpowered, hmm not fitting my play style.

I was curious how others feel about this "CCC philosophy". If it is a non-issue for most, it is fine with me. Maybe Adpets in ME3 will not perform Warp explosions on their own but will need Engineer for it, what do I know.

I am not saying CCCs are necessarily and always bad, just not sure if to balance game-play around it is ideal. Was looking for input, food for a thought, not for an argument.

I love the CCC mechanics. It adds an extra layer of depth to the combat. It requires planning and teamwork. My only complaint is the disorent affect. It seems more difficult to setup than stagger or brittle.

[Jman5]

knownastherat wrote...

It is not, primarily, what I would call criticisms. So Bioware has decided to abandon spell combos from Origins for Cross class Combos in DA2. Fine, nothing wrong with fiddling with stuff. I was not using spell combos, except perhaps Glyphs, much in Origins anyway as they felt overpowered, hmm not fitting my play style.

I was curious how others feel about this "CCC philosophy". If it is a non-issue for most, it is fine with me. Maybe Adpets in ME3 will not perform Warp explosions on their own but will need Engineer for it, what do I know.

I am not saying CCCs are necessarily and always bad, just not sure if to balance game-play around it is ideal. Was looking for input, food for a thought, not for an argument.

Personally I find them a fun way to set up massive 1-shot hits. Not required, but fun and strong.

Honestly, from what I've seen, most of the people complaining about mage DPS have set their mage up in a way that either focuses on healing or crowd control. This is fine, but it's like skipping scythe and Mighty Blow for a 2hander and then complaining about warrior dps.

Rogue: Really good single target Nuker
Warrior: Really good at tanking and engaging a small number of clumped units.
Mage: Really good at Crowd Control and taking on large numbers of spread out units.

Different classes are Different and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Gloxgasm]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

knownastherat wrote...

It is not, primarily, what I would call criticisms. So Bioware has decided to abandon spell combos from Origins for Cross class Combos in DA2. Fine, nothing wrong with fiddling with stuff. I was not using spell combos, except perhaps Glyphs, much in Origins anyway as they felt overpowered, hmm not fitting my play style.

I was curious how others feel about this "CCC philosophy". If it is a non-issue for most, it is fine with me. Maybe Adpets in ME3 will not perform Warp explosions on their own but will need Engineer for it, what do I know.

I am not saying CCCs are necessarily and always bad, just not sure if to balance game-play around it is ideal. Was looking for input, food for a thought, not for an argument.

I love the CCC mechanics. It adds an extra layer of depth to the combat. It requires planning and teamwork. My only complaint is the disorent affect. It seems more difficult to setup than stagger or brittle.

Completely agree on all counts.

[nicodeemus327]

Jman5 wrote...
Different classes are Different and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Yeah, I like is that way too. I feel mages are great when it comes to CCC. They are the easiest class when it comes to creating and exploiting combos.

[Roxlimn]

knownastherat wrote...

It is not, primarily, what I would call criticisms. So Bioware has decided to abandon spell combos from Origins for Cross class Combos in DA2. Fine, nothing wrong with fiddling with stuff. I was not using spell combos, except perhaps Glyphs, much in Origins anyway as they felt overpowered, hmm not fitting my play style.

I was curious how others feel about this "CCC philosophy". If it is a non-issue for most, it is fine with me. Maybe Adpets in ME3 will not perform Warp explosions on their own but will need Engineer for it, what do I know.

I am not saying CCCs are necessarily and always bad, just not sure if to balance game-play around it is ideal. Was looking for input, food for a thought, not for an argument.

I'm not especially fond of it, but it's better than Spell Combos, definitely.  For one thing, it isn't restricted to spells, so you're not shooting yourself in the foot by choosing any class other than Mage.  For another, it's also not hideously overpowered.  Storm of the Century allows Mages in DA:O to solo nearly every encounter in the finale by themselves.  class Combos are a step in the right direction.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 28 mars 2011 - 04:13 .

[nicodeemus327]

Roxlimn wrote...

knownastherat wrote...

It is not, primarily, what I would call criticisms. So Bioware has decided to abandon spell combos from Origins for Cross class Combos in DA2. Fine, nothing wrong with fiddling with stuff. I was not using spell combos, except perhaps Glyphs, much in Origins anyway as they felt overpowered, hmm not fitting my play style.

I was curious how others feel about this "CCC philosophy". If it is a non-issue for most, it is fine with me. Maybe Adpets in ME3 will not perform Warp explosions on their own but will need Engineer for it, what do I know.

I am not saying CCCs are necessarily and always bad, just not sure if to balance game-play around it is ideal. Was looking for input, food for a thought, not for an argument.

I'm not especially fond of it, but it's better than Spell Combos, definitely.  For one thing, it isn't restricted to spells, so you're shooting yourself in to foot by choosing any class other than Mage.  For another, it's also not hideously overpowered.  Storm of the Century allows Mages in DA:O to solo nearly every encounter in the finale by themselves.  class Combos are a step in the right direction.

I'm fond of CCCs but I agree with everything else you said. They need some tweaking but are certainly an improvement over previous gameplay.

[knownastherat]

Do we, or rather don't you, feel that it is actually "diversity" what "suffers"? Diversity of approaches, playing styles.

Sure, Stagger + Chain Lightning = Win, but doing this ad nauseam gets boring to me no matter how cool it looks or how powerful it is. If an encounter is balanced for CCCs (damage) there is not much options, but to use it or do it the hard way. There are no alternatives how to reach the same goal, with comparable effort ~ time and energy, by different means.

Chess for example has great depth and it does not use any CCCs. No, I am not arguing some "truth", just expressing my opinion and trying to see other points of view, so do not attack me

[Besetment]

Roxlimn wrote...

Besetment:

Actually, AreleX's videos also show that NPC Mages on Tactics are NOT good at applying chain lightning. In most of his vids, Merrill kills one, maybe two targets with Stagger because he's applying it with Cleave or Sunder (those seem to last shorter). The one time Merrill ganks a whole bunch of guys, he's amazed at the effect.

I'm gonna try and make a video when I get home but I've been FRAPsing for the past few days unsuccessfully. It does not like DA2 one bit, since it keeps pausing for seconds at a time and becomes unresponsive and I don't get it (I've done plenty of ME2 videos without hitch).

Anyway, the way I use Fenris is to activate Cleave, Target Nearest, Scythe to the first target, HIT, Bolster then click next nearest target, HIT, Bolster, next nearest target, HIT, Bolster etc.

If you have to run into position, spam Bolster whilst doing it as you will get all your stamina back really fast, if Second Wind is on cooldown.

If you get a good cluster, use Whirlwind. Save Mighty Blow until Cleave expires unless a great opportunity demands that you use it early. The aim is to spread stagger and stun around continuously until you see chain lightning detonate. If you do it like this, you can kill almost everything with just 2 mages using chain lightning and crushing prison set on tactics. Everything else you can muddle together in tactics to make it quicker and easier.

[nicodeemus327]

knownastherat wrote...

Do we, or rather don't you, feel that it is actually "diversity" what "suffers"? Diversity of approaches, playing styles.

Sure, Stagger + Chain Lightning = Win, but doing this ad nauseam gets boring to me no matter how cool it looks or how powerful it is. If an encounter is balanced for CCCs (damage) there is not much options, but to use it or do it the hard way. There are no alternatives how to reach the same goal, with comparable effort ~ time and energy, by different means.

Chess for example has great depth and it does not use any CCCs. No, I am not arguing some "truth", just expressing my opinion and trying to see other points of view, so do not attack me

There's more CCCs than just stagger + chain lightning. You can use fist of the maker (its really good with a 2h warrior), crushing prison with stagger. There's also stagger + explosive shot from melee rogues do an insane amounts of damage with a maxed out chain.  Brittle + archer's lance turns commanders into jokes. Disorient + scatter is just plain crazy for taking out a group of normal mobs (even if it takes more ability points than I'd like to get the disorient effect). Try them out. Different combos are better suited to certain group setups and combat situations. There’s a lot of diversity.

[Gloxgasm]

One of the CCC problems is the inability to effectively use disorient. Is pinning shot still bugged for it? The other 2 ways are in a tree no one goes into I believe.

[Roxlimn]

Besetment:

I can do that with just one mage. Scythe I use to combo with Cone of Cold as much as possible. When I'm primarily playing my Warrior Hawke, I set the Mages to Tactics. When I'm playing Mage Hawke, I want to command in the spells myself. It's just too bad that the Fighter AI is too stupid to do anything worthwhile without killing itself.

[Roxlimn]

knownastherat wrote...

Do we, or rather don't you, feel that it is actually "diversity" what "suffers"? Diversity of approaches, playing styles.

Sure, Stagger + Chain Lightning = Win, but doing this ad nauseam gets boring to me no matter how cool it looks or how powerful it is. If an encounter is balanced for CCCs (damage) there is not much options, but to use it or do it the hard way. There are no alternatives how to reach the same goal, with comparable effort ~ time and energy, by different means.

Chess for example has great depth and it does not use any CCCs. No, I am not arguing some "truth", just expressing my opinion and trying to see other points of view, so do not attack me

Aside from what was mentioned, using CCCs is only really required at Hard and Nightmare.  If you don't want to use them, you can play at Normal and use pretty much anything you want.  I don't get this prevailing attitude of only wanting to play at Nightmare, as if that's the only way anyone can have fun.  Is there something to playing at Nightmare that I'm not getting?

[nicodeemus327]

Gloxgasm wrote...

One of the CCC problems is the inability to effectively use disorient. Is pinning shot still bugged for it? The other 2 ways are in a tree no one goes into I believe.

Yeah, there's a problem with pinning shot. I think the pinning effect (and thus the disorient effect) is messed up. I think it has a 0.08% chance to apply instead of 0.8% chance. It’s hard to tell what the problem is but the pinning and disorient affect rarely gets applied even if you’re careful about not breaking the pinning effect.

I go into the sabotage tree for varric. I don’t bother with the threat abilities from the scoundrel tree. I just don’t need them. Fatiguing fog + scatter is pretty damn good. It’s up there with chain lightning.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 28 mars 2011 - 04:50 .

[Graunt]

Amioran wrote...
You will never see a video as that for a mage because damage of a mage is done in SPIKES and under certain variables that are not always the same in every situation. The auto-attacks of a mage are really low compared to other classes, the constant damage is lower.

So, to demonstrate the power of a mage you should look at videos that does spike damage to enemies in an area, but not always.  The same videos of the warrior shows (also if not specifically) the damage that can be done by a mage in spikes, and those videos are neither tailored to use all the damaging spells. You can create a video of a mage destroying a group of enemies in a second.

Spikes (and certainly nowhere near what's possible):



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Can a Warrior do similar when the stars align?  Yep, but are they guaranteed this kind of reaction off of a single death?  Nope.

Thats actually part of the problem. When it comes to CCC, the AI is very good at casting chain lightning, stone fist and fist of the maker on status effect. Applying the status effect is something you can do alot better than the AI can, so if you want to do high, reliable damage with a Mage, you will invariably be controlling Fenris/Aveline most of the time.

This sadly, is true -- although it wasn't that much different in Origins.  And what was even worse about Origins is that pretty much every fight was "put your group on hold so the Mages can blow up the room".  That's not really fun or engaging and it really does seem like some people just can't be satisfied until their Mage is soloing the entire game while the rest of the group stands by and watches.  As it is anyway, Aveline does that quite a bit due to Gravitic, and all she's able to do is max range instant attacks for a debuff, then she just stands there waiting for them to refresh.

How many people in this thread have honestly finished the Awiergan Scrolls on Nightmare?  Both Anders and Varric (as usual) died around halfway through that fight and it was just my Mage and Aveline left, with my Mage actually pinned down in a corner being rammed over and over by Hybris.  Due to my build I survived, and could snipe heal Aveline when she would run past just oor of the stasis effect and she could slowly finish off parts of the room until I could finally get out of the corner.  I also went into this fight with only 1 healing potion.  You would NOT be able to do this as a Warrior by themselves, and a Mage CAN.

Also, a bit off topic -- but I was using the Vague Blade with the Lyrium rune on this fight, and then switched my weapon when he was already down to 1/3 health back to the sword you get from the Arishok.  That does about 2-3x as much damage to him as the supposed "best sword in the game".

...or do you actually think those warrior vids are capable of doing what they do while solo?

That's the general consensus through the other thread and now this one. :innocent:

So i went Spirit/Force mage. K i dont know what the hell they were thinking with Force Mage but that spec blows hard!

:blink:

One of the CCC problems is the inability to effectively use disorient.
Is pinning shot still bugged for it? The other 2 ways are in a tree no one goes into I believe.

There's really not much anything more useful to get for Varric after you've filled out most of his Marksman tree and already have Goad than to finish out Fatiguing Fog and Confusion, even if you were not using them for the disorient anyway (thanks Rumination!).  Problem is, you really only have one spell, two tops that truly "needs" it.  For Aveline, it's nice on Assault, but I don't pickup the upgrade to Scatter for a loooong time, if ever.

Modifié par Graunt, 28 mars 2011 - 10:15 .

[tybert7]

Roxlimn wrote...

knownastherat wrote...

It is not, primarily, what I would call criticisms. So Bioware has decided to abandon spell combos from Origins for Cross class Combos in DA2. Fine, nothing wrong with fiddling with stuff. I was not using spell combos, except perhaps Glyphs, much in Origins anyway as they felt overpowered, hmm not fitting my play style.

I was curious how others feel about this "CCC philosophy". If it is a non-issue for most, it is fine with me. Maybe Adpets in ME3 will not perform Warp explosions on their own but will need Engineer for it, what do I know.

I am not saying CCCs are necessarily and always bad, just not sure if to balance game-play around it is ideal. Was looking for input, food for a thought, not for an argument.

I'm not especially fond of it, but it's better than Spell Combos, definitely.  For one thing, it isn't restricted to spells, so you're not shooting yourself in the foot by choosing any class other than Mage.  For another, it's also not hideously overpowered.  Storm of the Century allows Mages in DA:O to solo nearly every encounter in the finale by themselves.  class Combos are a step in the right direction.

I would have preferred they expanded on spell combos and just added the same mechanic to different classes.

If a warrior staggers someone, they should have an ability that takes advantage of that state and deals more damage, same with the rogue and mage.

All they needed to do was give combos to the classes, by themselves in self contained packages and nerf the op ones for the mages in origins.

Done.  

If they really wanted, they could have added a passive weakness by having other classes and still allowed some form of cross class synergy based on moves, but it should not be the core imo.  But again, I have no idea how many people agree with me.  I am sure there are alot of people out there who are just like - CCC increases party depth and that is a good thing !!!!!!  blah blah blah.

If that is most people, then I just have to suck it up and be miserable with the future direction.  The statements about turn the difficulty down to baby mode are not satisfying, it's the mechanics that bother me, not having the game be more difficult.

[Zan Mura]

Roxlimn wrote...

These settings are GAME settings, not LORE settings. On Casual, Mage Hawke will destroy anything and everything. Is that canon? Probably not.

...

Making the Mage much more powerful only marginalizes those of us who like it this way. I like it that my Mage needs Fighters to man the frontline combat on Nightmare - it's consistent with fantasy tropes. I like it that Fighters need Mage support on Nightmare - that's also consistent with fantasy. If you want your Hawk to be more powerful, play on Casual. Everybody happy, right?

Or do you mind for some reason if you're playing on Casual? Make you insecure about your gaming cred?

They aren't "game settings" as long as FF is tied to Nightmare. And anyway as I've been saying all over the place here, this problem isn't even tied to difficulty. The whole mechanics in the game are different from DAO's in that the players work under different rules from the enemy. Differen't HP's, different damage, different spells etc. It feels highly artificial and unrealistic with regards to how this world should work.

As for fighters needing mage support, and vice versa. Not quite true. Due to the potion mechanic of increasing drops when potions are below 4 (again, totally artificial), warriors can make do reasonably well without mage heals. More importantly, I KNOW how a 2h works in Nightmare. I've made my Fenris do it. Singlehandedly defeat many random mob encounters with nothing more than Cleave + 3 attack abilities. Ooh there's a nice little Chain Lightning CCC you can use from that STAGGER. But it's not even needed because those mobs will die to the next swing anyway. Even the BRITTLE mechanic is dubious since I rarely ever even need it aside from bosses. Warriors have very little need for a mage, the mage is a bonus. But mages on their own are damn near useless without support and someone to set up CCC's for them to use.

Regarding your argument about applying personal handicap to your warrior on casual to make the mage feel superior, I would actually agree normally. I love applying personal handicaps to craft the game to my liking. But BW itself already proved they do not agree, when they completely nerfed the mage from DAO. Most other people seem to agree as well. In DAO you could just as well have said "take the difficulty to casual, that way your warrior and rogue can be useful even without the use of mage". It's almost exactly the same situation... only in DA2 I do admit the mages are far closer to balanced than the warriors and rogues were in DAO (they were totally gimped by comparison there).

As for the insecurity on casual thing and gaming cred. If that was a serious suggestion, then no. I openly admit to cheating and exploiting where I feel like it to craft the gaming experience I like, granted in most games I never need to, but in DA2 I do that constantly. I don't care one whit if my "rep" or whatever drops in some random stranger's eyes I don't even care about. Seems more likely to me though that you're just projecting with that suggestion. Basically trying to say "I like Nightmare because I am skilled, better than you, and I deserve admiration. But you can't, so admit that you are inferior to me because I want gaming cred for myself." in a patronizing tone of voice. No?

[nicodeemus327]

tybert7 wrote...

I would have preferred they expanded on spell combos and just added the same mechanic to different classes.

If a warrior staggers someone, they should have an ability that takes advantage of that state and deals more damage, same with the rogue and  mage.

All they needed to do was give combos to the classes, by themselves in self contained packages and nerf the op ones for the mages in origins.

Disagree. Nightmare (and to a lesser extent hard) is designed so you have to play your entire party optimally. CCCs are part of that. If you could do CCCs with only one class it would be nearly impossible to achieve their goal. Its a good goal too. It allows for more diverse gameplay by focing you to consider the abilites of your entire party.

If you don't like CCC than don't play nightmare.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 28 mars 2011 - 10:37 .

[Fa1nT]

CCC forces you to have a party that exploits them. What if you want a party of 3 mages and a rogue? Extremely viable in origins, not so much in DA2