20 réponses à ce sujet

[Tomomi]

Hello sweeties 

Anyway, I just have a quick question on how exactly do these 2 abilities work. The description is not exactly that helpful so I can only guess. Unfortunately, unlike other spells/abilities, these 2 abilities are not very clear due to their nature.

* Armistice: The rogue distracts all enemies surrounding a single party member, drawing them away from that ally and redirecting them toward whichever ally each considers the second-greatest threat on the battlefield. 
Does it work like a Mindblast? If rogue casts on a mage, the mobs will drop aggro and run away from the mage to the next highest threat target?


* Goad: The rogue incites all enemies in an area into attacking a chosen ally instead of their current targets.

This one is even more ambiguous. The rogue incites all enemies in ... an area, which area?  The area around the rogue, or the area in the circle?  First scenario, if rogue needs to save mage, rogue runs next to the mage and uses Goad targeting the tank?  Or second scenario, tank charges in a group of mobs, and rogue would use Goad on tank to help tank gather all mobs on tank?

Sorry in advance if this sounds like a noob question. Btw, I play on PC so I assume console bug does not affect me in regard to these 2 abilities. Which is all people talk about when I google for answers: how Bioware should fix them so PS3 and XBOX360 players can use them.  But there is almost nothing out there really explaining the usage.  Dragon Age Wiki shows the exact description only.  And my testing yields very weird results, may even convince me they don't even work on PC.

[AKOdin]

I use both on PC as backups when my tank's taunt is on cooldown.

Each has an area of effect you can see, like the flask abilities. Armistice in practice makes the units within the area of effect immediately go after someone else. Goad only affects enemies in the area of affect circle.

Works pretty well for me on PC. All this was done on hard for clarity.

Edit: Never used mindblast, so I can't offer any comparisons.

Modifié par AKOdin, 27 mars 2011 - 08:39 .

[Gnoster]

They definately can be tough to figure out. I learned about them by trying out different tactic setups.

Armistice gives a 100% threat reduction to the person you cast it on, and it does that for all enemies within it's reach (10m). These enemies will go for the second highest which may or may not be your tank. Mind Blast will lower threat, but not drop it completely, instead it confuses enemies to sometimes find another target.
Considering the enemies go for the second highest target means you should only it on one of the most important companions in the party (e.g. what if you remove threat from your rogue, so they go for your healer instead). I use it on my main healer, with the following tactic setup:
Anders: Being attacked by a melee attack -> Armistice

Goad is better because it lets you redirect to a specific target a.k.a. your tank. You can cast it on the rogue himself or any given party member. It wont help you stick enemies on the tank longer. Wait to use it until it's necessary.
Personally I have my rogues setup to use Goad on all party members except my tank, so they redirect the threat to Aveline under given circumstances. This is my tactics for that setup:
Merril: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack -> Use current condition for next tactic
Aveline: Any -> Goad
You just switch out Merril's name for any other companion you need secured, and if your player character is the tank, then switch out Aveline for Hawke. The tactic means that if any companion is attacked the rogue will try and redirect that enemy to the tank.

[Tomomi]

Thanks for the fast response.

I play on Nightmare mode, even with "Pause" it is such an adrenaline rush, with very little room for mistakes: Mobs hit very hard, and if that something abilities don't get someone out of the stun/knock lock, they would die very soon.

I guess with 2 people confirming this, I would be more confident at working these 2 abilities out. Thanks so much guys.

@AKOdin: Mindblast is just a spell that upon cast, it pushes enemy within a radius around the caster out and drop aggro of the caster, in basic. So it is safe to say Armistice is like a Mindblast that casts on other companions without the fancy push back, just drop aggro.

Goad is better because it lets you redirect to a specific target a.k.a. your tank. You can cast it on the rogue himself or any given party member. It wont help you stick enemies on the tank longer. Wait to use it until it's necessary.
Personally I have my rogues setup to use Goad on all party members except my tank, so they redirect the threat to Aveline under given circumstances. This is my tactics for that setup:
Merril: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack -> Use current condition for next tactic
Aveline: Any -> Goad
You just switch out Merril's name for any other companion you need secured, and if your player character is the tank, then switch out Aveline for Hawke. The tactic means that if any companion is attacked the rogue will try and redirect that enemy to the tank.

This is different from what Akodin said.  You said you would use Goad on all your party members? Or you mean to use the tactic setting on any member?  So if Merrill under attack by melee, use Goad on Aveline?  Does this also mean Aveline would have to run closer to Merrill before Goad goes off?  It does say the size is only 6m.

So again, my assumption is: Goad can be casted on a person (tank) that entice all mobs within Goad's circle to attack that person?

Modifié par Tomomi, 27 mars 2011 - 09:11 .

[SuicidalBaby]

On consoles thats how it works, we have no targeting thing. I use that same tactic and it only affects enemies with in the circle around the tank. but, its consistant threat management for that 6m. So if you have the tank on a tactic like

Enemy: attacking ally > attack

the tank will always be near enemies attacking allies, and goad will do its thing.

I should mention that the improved cooldown on armistice is so worth it and basicly trumps goad in the end simply by way of 0 threat on anyone but the tank. 

goad your dog, goad your blood slave, confuse is another one I just love, esspecially with more than 1 elite rogue around.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 27 mars 2011 - 12:52 .

[Jubez187]

I asked this same question a few days ago because of the way the targetting for these 2 abilities work it get's a little awkward. Good information in here though, thanks everyone

[GodBID]

This is how my varric is setup when i play as he is possibly the most overpowered character in this game in terms of aggro management and pure dmg when its needed.

5. Anders: Any - Back-to-Back
6. Anders: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
7. Hawke: Any - Goad
8. Merrill: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
9. Hawke: Any - Goad
10. Sebastian: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
11. Hawke: Any - Goad
12. Self: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
13. Hawke: Any - Goad
14. Anders: Being attacked by a melee attack - Armistice

If any of the paramaters are meet, mr varric will use goad on me and draw any aggro towards me, as i play a 2H vanguard setup i don't run any form of taunt ability im pure dmg back to back, i have yet to have any of my team mates actually die as long as i micro manage their movements correctly.

[Tomomi]

Thank you everyone.

GodBID, it makes a lot of sense now. I guess I have to upgrade Goad to get that 10m range for highest effectiveness. Curious, why do you set "Any" for Back-to-Back?

Do you think NPC "resist" aggro? They are known to resist all kind of spells and abilities which reducing their effectiveness. This is why I had to move from Sabotage to Soundrel, hoping to get a more reliable method of crowd control.

[Jubez187]

GodBID wrote...

This is how my varric is setup when i play as he is possibly the most overpowered character in this game in terms of aggro management and pure dmg when its needed.

5. Anders: Any - Back-to-Back
6. Anders: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
7. Hawke: Any - Goad
8. Merrill: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
9. Hawke: Any - Goad
10. Sebastian: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
11. Hawke: Any - Goad
12. Self: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
13. Hawke: Any - Goad
14. Anders: Being attacked by a melee attack - Armistice

If any of the paramaters are meet, mr varric will use goad on me and draw any aggro towards me, as i play a 2H vanguard setup i don't run any form of taunt ability im pure dmg back to back, i have yet to have any of my team mates actually die as long as i micro manage their movements correctly.

When you pick "use current condition for next tactic" does that tie the two tactics together?  Because wouldn't it just go down the list and still spam Goad on top of Hawke?

[AKOdin]

SuicidialBaby wrote...
goad your dog, goad your blood slave, confuse is another one I just love, esspecially with more than 1 elite rogue around.

Bah! I can't goad the dog on PC. it won't let me target the dog. Is there a way to accomplish it on PC? I didn't play around with it much, just figured it was a hard limitation and moved on.

Dog would be awesome against rage demons and rogues...

[GodBID]

Tomomi wrote...

Thank you everyone.

GodBID, it makes a lot of sense now. I guess I have to upgrade Goad to get that 10m range for highest effectiveness. Curious, why do you set "Any" for Back-to-Back?

Do you think NPC "resist" aggro? They are known to resist all kind of spells and abilities which reducing their effectiveness. This is why I had to move from Sabotage to Soundrel, hoping to get a more reliable method of crowd control.

The "Any" Back-To-Back is simply to keep Varric ontop of your healer at all times, making it easier for varric to control the situation rather then have him fraking off god knows where around corners and what not.

[GodBID]

Jubez187 wrote...

GodBID wrote...

This is how my varric is setup when i play as he is possibly the most overpowered character in this game in terms of aggro management and pure dmg when its needed.

5. Anders: Any - Back-to-Back
6. Anders: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
7. Hawke: Any - Goad
8. Merrill: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
9. Hawke: Any - Goad
10. Sebastian: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
11. Hawke: Any - Goad
12. Self: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
13. Hawke: Any - Goad
14. Anders: Being attacked by a melee attack - Armistice

If any of the paramaters are meet, mr varric will use goad on me and draw any aggro towards me, as i play a 2H vanguard setup i don't run any form of taunt ability im pure dmg back to back, i have yet to have any of my team mates actually die as long as i micro manage their movements correctly.

When you pick "use current condition for next tactic" does that tie the two tactics together?  Because wouldn't it just go down the list and still spam Goad on top of Hawke?

I don't know the AI system that well, but yes that is essentially what is happening, the AI for varric will find those 2 tactics and link them if those paramters are meet, and i have not seen varric spam any goads on me if non of the other party members are under attack, so i would say it works as it should.

Only thing that is annoying is that the behaviour settings are a bit broken, all the behaviour settings are suppose to move your party members out of harmful AoE effects, it does not it's broken really sucks :/

Modifié par GodBID, 27 mars 2011 - 11:11 .

[RubiconI7]

GodBID wrote...

Jubez187 wrote...

GodBID wrote...

This is how my varric is setup when i play as he is possibly the most overpowered character in this game in terms of aggro management and pure dmg when its needed.

5. Anders: Any - Back-to-Back
6. Anders: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
7. Hawke: Any - Goad
8. Merrill: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
9. Hawke: Any - Goad
10. Sebastian: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
11. Hawke: Any - Goad
12. Self: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
13. Hawke: Any - Goad
14. Anders: Being attacked by a melee attack - Armistice

If any of the paramaters are meet, mr varric will use goad on me and draw any aggro towards me, as i play a 2H vanguard setup i don't run any form of taunt ability im pure dmg back to back, i have yet to have any of my team mates actually die as long as i micro manage their movements correctly.

When you pick "use current condition for next tactic" does that tie the two tactics together?  Because wouldn't it just go down the list and still spam Goad on top of Hawke?

I don't know the AI system that well, but yes that is essentially what is happening, the AI for varric will find those 2 tactics and link them if those paramters are meet, and i have not seen varric spam any goads on me if non of the other party members are under attack, so i would say it works as it should.

Only thing that is annoying is that the behaviour settings are a bit broken, all the behaviour settings are suppose to move your party members out of harmful AoE effects, it does not it's broken really sucks :/

Two questions GodBID

1. Is this tactic set on PC or the consoles? I did a couple of plays on consoles and Varric's Goad or Armistice does not seem to work which led me to believe that either one or both is bugged which in turn led me to not invest in the Scoundrel tree.

2. "Use current condition for next tactic" is it the same as "Skip to tactic #"?

Thanks in advance!

Modifié par RubiconI7, 27 mars 2011 - 11:40 .

[GodBID]

RubiconI7 wrote...

GodBID wrote...

Jubez187 wrote...

GodBID wrote...

This is how my varric is setup when i play as he is possibly the most overpowered character in this game in terms of aggro management and pure dmg when its needed.

5. Anders: Any - Back-to-Back
6. Anders: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
7. Hawke: Any - Goad
8. Merrill: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
9. Hawke: Any - Goad
10. Sebastian: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
11. Hawke: Any - Goad
12. Self: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
13. Hawke: Any - Goad
14. Anders: Being attacked by a melee attack - Armistice

If any of the paramaters are meet, mr varric will use goad on me and draw any aggro towards me, as i play a 2H vanguard setup i don't run any form of taunt ability im pure dmg back to back, i have yet to have any of my team mates actually die as long as i micro manage their movements correctly.

When you pick "use current condition for next tactic" does that tie the two tactics together?  Because wouldn't it just go down the list and still spam Goad on top of Hawke?

I don't know the AI system that well, but yes that is essentially what is happening, the AI for varric will find those 2 tactics and link them if those paramters are meet, and i have not seen varric spam any goads on me if non of the other party members are under attack, so i would say it works as it should.

Only thing that is annoying is that the behaviour settings are a bit broken, all the behaviour settings are suppose to move your party members out of harmful AoE effects, it does not it's broken really sucks :/

Two questions GodBID

1. Is this tactic set on PC or the consoles? I did a couple of plays on consoles and Varric's Goad or Armistice does not seem to work which led me to believe that either one or both is bugged which in turn led me to not invest in the Scoundrel tree.

2. "Use current condition for next tactic" is it the same as "Skip to tactic #"?

Thanks in advance!

1: These tactics are for PC, and they both seem to work the way they should, but i have heard that the console version might be broken (not 100% sure if its true or not, as i don't play console or follow console related bugs.)

2: I actually don't know this is something i have to test out, (someone probably already knows it and has been posted on the forum somwhere though).

[RubiconI7]

Thank you^^^^^^

I've know that Armistice does not let you choose a "chosen" target and have heard on multiple instances that it is indeed bugged. From experience I know Goad doesn't seem to be particularly effective, not sure if it is bugged though.

[Tomomi]

RubiconI7 wrote...

Thank you^^^^^^

I've know that Armistice does not let you choose a "chosen" target and have heard on multiple instances that it is indeed bugged. From experience I know Goad doesn't seem to be particularly effective, not sure if it is bugged though.

It is all over the internet that ppl complain these 2 abilities are not working in console games.  I am not sure if it is a glitch without giving you a target (which you can still use tactics for it), or it is totally not functional at all.  That you have to find out for yourself.

[Sentox6]

The purpose of "Use current condition for next tactic" is to combine multiple conditions for one action. Simple example:

Self: Mana/stamina level > 50% - Use current condition for next tactic
Ally: Health < 25% - Use ability: Heal

In this case, an Ally will be healed only when their health falls below 25% and the healer has at least half their mana available. A trivial example, but it illustrates the point.

Jump to tactic allows you get get a little trickier; i.e., skipping tactics when specific conditions are met.

[Tomomi]

I am not new to all these conditional statements. But there is a problem with communicating with DA2.

Example:
- Line #1: Merrill: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
- Line #2: Hawke: Any - Goad

It sounds good right? Line #1 condition is to check if Merrill being attacked by a melee or range attack, then go to Line #2 and do whatever it says, in this case, Hawke uses Goad with "Any" condition, which means no condition.

But both lines are on the same level of hierarchy. DA2 will check line #1, is Merrill under attack by a melee or range? No! DA2 moves on to Line #2, Hawke "Any" uses Goad. If DA2 functions correctly, Hawke will use Goad whenever Goad is ready, regardless of whether Merrill is under attack or not. This is very self defeating purpose when we consider the intention of both lines.  In reality, what if Merrill does need help, and chances are Hawke's Goad had been on cool down, then what is the point of this tactics?  Not to mention it takes Stamina to use this ability.

Modifié par Tomomi, 29 mars 2011 - 07:43 .

[Sinman420]

GodBID wrote...

RubiconI7 wrote...

GodBID wrote...

Jubez187 wrote...

GodBID wrote...

This is how my varric is setup when i play as he is possibly the most overpowered character in this game in terms of aggro management and pure dmg when its needed.

5. Anders: Any - Back-to-Back
6. Anders: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
7. Hawke: Any - Goad
8. Merrill: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
9. Hawke: Any - Goad
10. Sebastian: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
11. Hawke: Any - Goad
12. Self: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
13. Hawke: Any - Goad
14. Anders: Being attacked by a melee attack - Armistice

If any of the paramaters are meet, mr varric will use goad on me and draw any aggro towards me, as i play a 2H vanguard setup i don't run any form of taunt ability im pure dmg back to back, i have yet to have any of my team mates actually die as long as i micro manage their movements correctly.

When you pick "use current condition for next tactic" does that tie the two tactics together?  Because wouldn't it just go down the list and still spam Goad on top of Hawke?

I don't know the AI system that well, but yes that is essentially what is happening, the AI for varric will find those 2 tactics and link them if those paramters are meet, and i have not seen varric spam any goads on me if non of the other party members are under attack, so i would say it works as it should.

Only thing that is annoying is that the behaviour settings are a bit broken, all the behaviour settings are suppose to move your party members out of harmful AoE effects, it does not it's broken really sucks :/

Two questions GodBID

1. Is this tactic set on PC or the consoles? I did a couple of plays on consoles and Varric's Goad or Armistice does not seem to work which led me to believe that either one or both is bugged which in turn led me to not invest in the Scoundrel tree.

2. "Use current condition for next tactic" is it the same as "Skip to tactic #"?

Thanks in advance!

1: These tactics are for PC, and they both seem to work the way they should, but i have heard that the console version might be broken (not 100% sure if its true or not, as i don't play console or follow console related bugs.)

2: I actually don't know this is something i have to test out, (someone probably already knows it and has been posted on the forum somwhere though).

These two abilities have been patched according to the fixes in 1.01 for the console version. 

"PS3-SPECIFIC FUNCTIONALITY
- The options menu now includes auto-attack.
- Armor values now adjust correctly when changing shields.
- Choosing a target at close range is now easier.
- The rogue's Goad and Armistice talents now target party members directly.
- Hawke no longer gains excessive coin and experience from rapidly and
repeatedly completing a single side quest.
- Icons for the cross and circle buttons now display correctly on PS3 systems
in certain regions of Asia where those buttons are reversed.
- Various technical changes should improve performance and limit crashes."

Source: http://social.biowar...2/index/7132754

However, Goad doesn't seem to work like it does on the PC version.  If you're directly in control of the rogue casting Goad there is only the ability to select your party member since they have removed the circle AoE selection.  So on the console version it works more like taunt in that it's only an AoE around the party member you cast it on.  Therefore the above mentioned tactics will only work if your tank is constantly attacking the persion being attacked.

Tanks tactics:
Enemy: Attacking Anders --> Attack

Varrics tactics:
Enemy: Attacking Anders --> Use condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target of < Tank > --> Use condition for next tactic
< Tank > : Any --> Goad

Modifié par Sinman420, 21 avril 2011 - 02:55 .

[SuicidalBaby]

/facepalm

this serves no purpose whatsoever:
Enemy: Target of < Tank > --> Use condition for next tactic

[Sinman420]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

/facepalm

this serves no purpose whatsoever:
Enemy: Target of < Tank > --> Use condition for next tactic

You're correct. I was thinking if you have the rogue tactics set up for more than one party member it would be a double check to make sure but as long as you prioritize the party members the same for both the rogue and the tank there shouldn't be any issues.

Modifié par Sinman420, 21 avril 2011 - 03:04 .