64 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

Handily.

Dragon Age II's cast may be one of , if not the most complex and three dimensional in the history of Bioware. Another huge advanatge is everyone but Fenris will factor into the main plot in some way. They feel like most Chris Avellone characters.

DAO's cast, however, were mostly two dimension clones of other Bioware characters. only Wynne and Shale I could not find a Bioware character similiar to. DAO's cast, except for Morrigan and Allister, are almost completely divorced from the story, and more divorced from th eplot than almost any other recent Bioware game. Leliana is easily the most complex companion in DAO, its too bad she reminds me too much of Dawn Star.
 
DAII's characters run on their complexity and show wide ranges of emotions...you just can't pigeon hole AII's characters into strict steroetypes such as comic character, token evil teammate, or goody goody twos shoes character. Every character could have their funny moments and their tragic moments, They seem more human than DAO's cast. DAO's characters mostly show one personality and one or two emotions...as they are driven on strict personalities more.

Both casts are deep in backstory, however, DAII's character backstories factor into the plot far more than DAO;s do, especially Isabela. Instead of being glorified codex entries that you talk to during camp, they reveal their pasts in the context of the story. For example, Aveline talks about her father only after Leandra dies, to help console Hawke. Gifts can flesh out characters like Sebastian. You also get to experience your companions stories much more than in DAO with three missions each. In DAO, all they have is one short quest, its more telling than showing.

In DAO, you can only harden Allister and Leliana (and soften Morrigan). In DAII, you can harden everybody. The friendship/rivalry system is far better than DAO's approval/disapproval system. Characters develop differently as rivals than they do as friends. Merrill especially.

DAO is the way NOT to handle characters...they were so one/two dimensional and so divorced from the plot, I actually forgot that Sten was even in the party. Thats not good. And you can have characters tell their past all they want, if it doesn't relate to the story, its just window dressing.

[Ixalmaris]

DA2 characters and depth?
ROFL

You have emo human, comic relieve elf, smartass dwarf, by-the-book human, hot chick human, etc.
That is not depth. The only one which is a bit unconventional is Anders. but even he is rather boring and cliche. When you can simply tack on "being gay" onto a character and his personality doesn't change at all the character does not have depth.

Tied into the backstory? The only ones who are are Anders and Isabella (and only because they had no clue how to integrate the main story into Act2 and just made a sidequest "main"). And the rival system was stolen from Alpha Protocol (which did it better).

[GodWood]

Bethany.

[Master Shiori]

I feel they're some of the best companions Bioware created up to date. Not only were most of them relevant to the main plot in one way or another, but the brilliant banter and relationship building between companions really shines through.

[txgoldrush]

Ixalmaris wrote...

DA2 characters and depth?
ROFL

You have emo human, comic relieve elf, smartass dwarf, by-the-book human, hot chick human, etc.
That is not depth. The only one which is a bit unconventional is Anders. but even he is rather boring and cliche. When you can simply tack on "being gay" onto a character and his personality doesn't change at all the character does not have depth.

Tied into the backstory? The only ones who are are Anders and Isabella (and only because they had no clue how to integrate the main story into Act2 and just made a sidequest "main"). And the rival system was stolen from Alpha Protocol (which did it better).

where is the emo human, or the comic relief elf? Nope not really any.

I guess you didn't play the game I guess.

[Ixalmaris]

txgoldrush wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

DA2 characters and depth?
ROFL

You have emo human, comic relieve elf, smartass dwarf, by-the-book human, hot chick human, etc.
That is not depth. The only one which is a bit unconventional is Anders. but even he is rather boring and cliche. When you can simply tack on "being gay" onto a character and his personality doesn't change at all the character does not have depth.

Tied into the backstory? The only ones who are are Anders and Isabella (and only because they had no clue how to integrate the main story into Act2 and just made a sidequest "main"). And the rival system was stolen from Alpha Protocol (which did it better).

where is the emo human, or the comic relief elf? Nope not really any.

I guess you didn't play the game I guess.

Fenris and Merill?
Fenris only whines how hard he had it in live (Carver too, but at least you get rid of him early) and Merill might have a tragic companion quest, but otherwise her only trademarks are naivety and funny dialogues -> comic relive character.
I guess you are a ignorant fanboy.

Modifié par Ixalmaris, 27 mars 2011 - 09:38 .

[txgoldrush]

Ixalmaris wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

DA2 characters and depth?
ROFL

You have emo human, comic relieve elf, smartass dwarf, by-the-book human, hot chick human, etc.
That is not depth. The only one which is a bit unconventional is Anders. but even he is rather boring and cliche. When you can simply tack on "being gay" onto a character and his personality doesn't change at all the character does not have depth.

Tied into the backstory? The only ones who are are Anders and Isabella (and only because they had no clue how to integrate the main story into Act2 and just made a sidequest "main"). And the rival system was stolen from Alpha Protocol (which did it better).

where is the emo human, or the comic relief elf? Nope not really any.

I guess you didn't play the game I guess.

Fenris and Merill?
I guess you are a ignorant fanboy.

Fenris is an elf....

Merrill is far from a comic character....

[Xrissie]

Troll alert, troll alert.

(not directed at OP)

[Ixalmaris]

txgoldrush wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

DA2 characters and depth?
ROFL

You have emo human, comic relieve elf, smartass dwarf, by-the-book human, hot chick human, etc.
That is not depth. The only one which is a bit unconventional is Anders. but even he is rather boring and cliche. When you can simply tack on "being gay" onto a character and his personality doesn't change at all the character does not have depth.

Tied into the backstory? The only ones who are are Anders and Isabella (and only because they had no clue how to integrate the main story into Act2 and just made a sidequest "main"). And the rival system was stolen from Alpha Protocol (which did it better).

where is the emo human, or the comic relief elf? Nope not really any.

I guess you didn't play the game I guess.

Fenris and Merill?
I guess you are a ignorant fanboy.

Fenris is an elf....

Merrill is far from a comic character....

Emo elf than. doesn't change that his a bland and cliche character.
And I would like you to look at the "Best line in the game" thread and count how much of it comes from Merril.
2 tragic companion quests does not make a serious character compared to all of the dialogue she has.

[TheBlackBaron]

txgoldrush wrote...
 
DAII's characters run on their complexity and show wide ranges of emotions...you just can't pigeon hole AII's characters into strict steroetypes such as comic character, token evil teammate, or goody goody twos shoes character.

Anders: Knight Templar
Aveline: Team Mom
Bethany: I Just Want To Be Normal
Carver: Always Someone Better
Fenris: Troubled But Cute
Isabela: Really Gets Around
Merrill: Cloud Cuckoolander
Varric: Genre Savvy Unreliable Narrator

Done. 

EDIT: Evidently some people are missing the point of this, so I'll edit in this exchange from later in the thread. 

TheBlackBaron wrote...

PantheraOnca wrote...

Tropes are not bad.

Didn't mean to suggest they are. Was merely pointing out that if you really want to you can quite easily pidgeon hole the DA2 characters, as you could with the DA:O characters.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 27 mars 2011 - 07:45 .

[txgoldrush]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
 
DAII's characters run on their complexity and show wide ranges of emotions...you just can't pigeon hole AII's characters into strict steroetypes such as comic character, token evil teammate, or goody goody twos shoes character.

Anders: Knight Templar
Aveline: Team Mom
Bethany: I Just Want To Be Normal
Carver: Always Someone Better
Fenris: Troubled But Cute
Isabela: Really Gets Around
Merrill: Cloud Cuckoolander
Varric: Genre Savvy Unreliable Narrator

Done. 

which is far more complex stereotypes than the DAO characters, who are basically clones of past Bioware characters.

[Esbatty]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
 
DAII's characters run on their complexity and show wide ranges of emotions...you just can't pigeon hole AII's characters into strict steroetypes such as comic character, token evil teammate, or goody goody twos shoes character.

Anders: Knight Templar
Aveline: Team Mom
Bethany: I Just Want To Be Normal
Carver: Always Someone Better
Fenris: Troubled But Cute
Isabela: Really Gets Around
Merrill: Cloud Cuckoolander
Varric: Genre Savvy Unreliable Narrator

Done. 

Team MILF more like

[JediHealerCosmin]

They are all special and great in their own way. I prefer the DAO team personally but that's me =P 

Sten with his honor and love for cookies, Morrigan and her disapprovals, Leliana and her gentle nature, Alistair and his jokes... and don't let me get started on Shale and her bird thing =)

Modifié par JediHealerCosmin, 27 mars 2011 - 10:05 .

[GodWood]

Why must one hate on DA:O's character's to praise DA2's?
Both have there share of good and bad characters but overall Sten tops them all.

[txgoldrush]

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

They are all special and great in their own way. I prefer the DAO team personally but that's me =P 

and they were "clones" of past Biowarte characters

Zervan and HK47 are alot alike, its not even funny. Same with Oghren and the Black Whirlwind. Morrigan can be compared to Viconia. Leliana to Bastila and Dawn Star, Sten to Sagacious Zu, Allister to Carth and Kaiden.

Only Wynnne and Shale feel fresh.

In DAII, the only character thats truly similiar to Biowares past characters is Merrill for Tali and Liara.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 27 mars 2011 - 10:10 .

[Johnsen1972]

Master Shiori wrote...

I feel they're some of the best companions Bioware created up to date. Not only were most of them relevant to the main plot in one way or another, but the brilliant banter and relationship building between companions really shines through.

is that sarcastic?

[txgoldrush]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

I feel they're some of the best companions Bioware created up to date. Not only were most of them relevant to the main plot in one way or another, but the brilliant banter and relationship building between companions really shines through.

is that sarcastic?

Hell no

Your companions do grow with eachother...for example Isabela and Aveline do not get along in Act I but become more firendly in Act III. And they have far more complex personalities than past Bioware games.

[Kidd]

I love the DA2 cast too ^^ They're all darn good (thought Fenris was void of characterisation, but after talking to friends it seems he just glitched out and stopped talking to me), though none are better than Alistair and Morrigan to me. They're better than the rest of the group, though =)

EDIT: And I don't see the Alistair = Carth/Kaidan thing at all. x)

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 27 mars 2011 - 10:15 .

[Corwyn]

txgoldrush wrote...

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

They are all special and great in their own way. I prefer the DAO team personally but that's me =P 

and they were "clones" of past Biowarte characters

Zervan and HK47 are alot alike, its not even funny. Same with Oghren and the Black Whirlwind. Morrigan can be compared to Viconia. Leliana to Bastila and Dawn Star, Sten to Sagacious Zu, Allister to Carth and Kaiden.

Only Wynnne and Shale feel fresh.

I don't disagree with you about liking the DA2 characters but I think this is a weak point in your arguement.  If you make it general enough you can compare almost any of the characters to other characters.  I personally don't think Zevran has much in common with HK47 besides the fact that both are killers and Allister to Carth or Kaiden isn't really close in my opnion either. 

My point is if you make it vague enough people can easily turn it back on you and start comparing DA2 characters like Merrill=Tali.

[Johnsen1972]

txgoldrush wrote...

Hell no

Your companions do grow with eachother...for example Isabela and Aveline do not get along in Act I but become more firendly in Act III. And they have far more complex personalities than past Bioware games.

how do you know? it sounds really sarcastic for me

[Ixalmaris]

Macgarnickle wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

They are all special and great in their own way. I prefer the DAO team personally but that's me =P 

and they were "clones" of past Biowarte characters

Zervan and HK47 are alot alike, its not even funny. Same with Oghren and the Black Whirlwind. Morrigan can be compared to Viconia. Leliana to Bastila and Dawn Star, Sten to Sagacious Zu, Allister to Carth and Kaiden.

Only Wynnne and Shale feel fresh.

My point is if you make it vague enough people can easily turn it back on you and start comparing DA2 characters like Merrill=Tali.

Varric = a less malicious HK47

[Whailor]

One's a fanboy and another isn't. Both wrong in general, but to yourself you sound right. Who cares. I don't have any list a la "Best chars in Bioware games" where I then rank them based by game. To me these are the chars in that game and that's it. Unless they somehow appear in another game then they mean nothing in other games or overall either. I like them as they are in DA2 (well, there's always room for some changes and improvements but that's another matter) and I like how DAO chars were in DAO. I like how Jade Empire chars were in Jade Empire. But outside of their respective games they matter nothing to me. They only belong in their games, they're good there but mean nothing else in larger scheme of things. Heck if I don't play any of those games for a year or so, I most likely forget most of them or what they were about.

So there's no point to get the boxers in a bunch. DA2 chars are done well for DA2 and they work well in DA2. They would not work well in DAO. And vice versa. And so with any other game. They only associate with those games and that's that. I may not agree with some choices made by Bioware, like Leliana becoming an agent of divine - in my DAO she left Chantry for good and never messed with them again. Anders did not become some paranoid maniac possessed by a crazed spirit. What can you do about it, nothing. But they fit with the game they're in, so be it. Doesn't make them better or worse then they were in another game.

[TheBlackBaron]

GodWood wrote...

Why must one hate on DA:O's character's to praise DA2's?
Both have there share of good and bad characters but overall Morrigan tops them all.

Fix't but otherwise, yes, this. 

txgoldrush wrote...

and they were "clones" of past Biowarte characters

Zervan and HK47 are alot alike, its not even funny. Same with Oghren and the Black Whirlwind. Morrigan can be compared to Viconia. Leliana to Bastila and Dawn Star, Sten to Sagacious Zu, Allister to Carth and Kaiden.

Only Wynnne and Shale feel fresh.

In DAII, the only character thats truly similiar to Biowares past characters is Merrill for Tali and Liara.

Anders: Saren
Aveline: Jaheira
Bethany/Carver: Imoen
Fenris: Carth (replace "whiny" with "broody")
Isabela: Zevran
Merrill: Tali
Sebastian: Nathaniel-Leliana composite
Varric: Joker

Once more with feeling...done. 

[ashwind]

Well... they are about the same but I too like DA2 characters better in general.

Aliester: Whiner
Morrigan: Selfish Witch
Leliana: Delusional Teenager
Wynne: Team Grandmother
Zevran: Comic relief (dirty version)
Sten: Comic relief (honorable version)
Oghren: Drunk dwarf that talks dirty

Loghain, Shale - they are pretty solid characters.

[JediHealerCosmin]

txgoldrush wrote...
and they were "clones" of past Biowarte characters

I've had a similar discussion with a few people. I wouldn't exactly call them 'clones' if in retrospect they have a few similar characteristics. Let's face it, in real life people aren't all that different sometimes

As far as the discussion went, the basic conclussion on which we all agreed on was "this is Dragon Age... why are we bringing Mass Effect/Kotor into this?"

My point is that if we really want to have an enjoyable experience, we have to break through certain barriers that tag these charaters for what they are. We need to enjoy them (all of them) for what the writters wanted them to be, not what they seem to be in comparison with their other works.

Modifié par JediHealerCosmin, 27 mars 2011 - 10:24 .