81 réponses à ce sujet

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The Angry One wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Plus that is probably what the Grey Wardens are doing now. They see the Architect and his people as allies so they'd help make sure another Mother situation doesn't happena gain. As for self-replication the Architect is pretty good at magic he could probably come up with some kind of potion or ritual that allows brood mothers to give birth to female darkspawn as well as males

This is assuming male Darkspawn are in fact *male*, or are fertile. Neither is likely given that there is no need for them to be.
It's also hypocritical to tolerate the existence of brood mothers or ghouls no matter if Darkspawn are sentient - they are innocent beings twisted into a state of perpetual madness and suffering.

The 'male' Darkspawn don't have to be fertile for them to become self-sustaining. Like I said if the Architect can make some kind of potion or something so that Broodmothers can have 'female' Darkspawn that will mature and become Broodmothers than you don't need the males to be fertile. Its like an ant colony, the ants can't reproduce but they don't need the queen does all of that. The same can be true of the Darkspawn if he can make them produce viable future Broodmothers than no one else has to suffer.

[bleetman]

"Smellin' a lot of "if" comin' off this plan"

Modifié par bleetman, 27 mars 2011 - 11:48 .

[Augustei]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Stroud acted correctly in the Qunari invasion. The Wardens are not at war with the Qunari, they're at war with the Darkspawn.

Let's say just for giggles that a Blight starts near the Free Marches some time in the future and  the Wardens need the support of Kirkwall.
The leaders of Kirkwall, remembering the historical event where in their hour of need the Wardens did nothing and left them to the mercies of the Arishok if not for the Champion, tell the Wardens to bugger off.

Yeah. Oops.

Anyhoo, Stroud was busy hunting Morrigan and the Warden, there wasn't any time to help against the Qunari.

Now way! is that what they were doing? That'd be awesome if they were.. but looking in the deep roads? They're doin' it wrong!!

[ISpeakTheTruth]

bleetman wrote...

"Smellin' a lot of "if" comin' off this plan"

There was alot of 'if' being thrown around when the decision to spare the Architect happened, now we have evidence that he's kept his word, and now they are allied with the Wardens. So far everything is going even better than I would have thought possible.

[LobselVith8]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

And the sad part is that he probably would boss the Hero of Ferelden around.

The Commander of the Grey in Ferelden? He can try, but I don't think he has the clout to order the Warden-Commander around.

bleetman wrote...

I wouldn't oversell it. They're still darkspawn, they're presumably still incapable of self-replicating, and if the Mother and her various Firsts are anything to go on, 'waking' the darkspawn poses considerable risks.

I imagine the dwarves would like their empire back, too.

The fact that Witherend launched a sneak attack against Vigil's Keep and the Architect's experiments kept failing miserably (from the Archdemon to the Mother) made me consider that awakening all the darkspawn probably isn't a good idea, especially when it's said they violate women and eat people.

I understand why people would gamble on the chance that he could end the Blight, but it seemed to open up the good possibility of a never-ending war with intelligent darkspawn who don't suffer from the lack of intellect the "groups of mindless darkspawn" do.

[Vicious]

lol, like it or not, the Wardens are supposed to be neutral in all things. The second they start messing in politics, they start making enemies BEYOND the Darkspawn. When there isn't a Blight, people quickly forget the Wardens.

If the Wardens make too many enemies, they get wiped out. Nobody cares about the big picture unless there's a blight sitting on their lap. Wardens have to watch and guard for that big picture.

Like it or not, it's in the lore.

[Augustei]

Wait.. Didn't the Grey Wardens help in one of the exalted marches against the Qunari? I seem to recall hearing it from somewhere.

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 28 mars 2011 - 07:49 .

[TobiTobsen]

Stroud is orlesian. The Thedas equivalent of France. Why exactly is anybody confused that he only ****es around and runs away when the **** starts hitting the fan?
*takes cover*

[True Zarken]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Stroud is orlesian. The Thedas equivalent of France. Why exactly is anybody confused that he only ****es around and runs away when the **** starts hitting the fan?
*takes cover*

You've hit the nail my friend When the **** gets real he buggers off. Why else did he have so many wardens with him in the deep roads?

[Annie_Dear]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

And the sad part is that he probably would boss the Hero of Ferelden around.

My Warden(s) wouldn't allow that. Stroud would regret it

[ISpeakTheTruth]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The fact that Witherend launched a sneak attack against Vigil's Keep and the Architect's experiments kept failing miserably (from the Archdemon to the Mother) made me consider that awakening all the darkspawn probably isn't a good idea, especially when it's said they violate women and eat people.

I understand why people would gamble on the chance that he could end the Blight, but it seemed to open up the good possibility of a never-ending war with intelligent darkspawn who don't suffer from the lack of intellect the "groups of mindless darkspawn" do.

Witherend didn't launch a sneak attack on Vigil's Keep he was sent to as for aid in the fight against the Mother. Naturally becuase he was a Darkspawn people thought he and his group were hostile so they attacked him, he then defended himself.

Its been 3 years since awakening and the Darkspawn have a solid aliance with the Wardens. That alone should speak volumes about them as a specie that the noble Wardens would see them as beings worthy of fighting next to. As for the Archdemon and the Mother they were his first attempts of trying to awaken his people anyone who has taken any science class will tell you that the first time attempting anything drastic and new will probably fail the first few times out. But again look after the first failures clearly things have been going well ever since.

As for vilating women and eating them... those are call evil people. Every race has evil people who get jollies out of raping and killing people that doesn't mean that every race is evil by default now does it? So far there's been no sign that letting the Architect was the bad thing to do. In the Epilogue it says that the attacks on the Dwarves have all but stopped and now in DA2 they are working side by side with the Wardens... I'm not seeing this horrible downside that people seem to be looking for.

[Augustei]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The fact that Witherend launched a sneak attack against Vigil's Keep and the Architect's experiments kept failing miserably (from the Archdemon to the Mother) made me consider that awakening all the darkspawn probably isn't a good idea, especially when it's said they violate women and eat people.

I understand why people would gamble on the chance that he could end the Blight, but it seemed to open up the good possibility of a never-ending war with intelligent darkspawn who don't suffer from the lack of intellect the "groups of mindless darkspawn" do.

Witherend didn't launch a sneak attack on Vigil's Keep he was sent to as for aid in the fight against the Mother. Naturally becuase he was a Darkspawn people thought he and his group were hostile so they attacked him, he then defended himself.

Its been 3 years since awakening and the Darkspawn have a solid aliance with the Wardens. That alone should speak volumes about them as a specie that the noble Wardens would see them as beings worthy of fighting next to. As for the Archdemon and the Mother they were his first attempts of trying to awaken his people anyone who has taken any science class will tell you that the first time attempting anything drastic and new will probably fail the first few times out. But again look after the first failures clearly things have been going well ever since.

As for vilating women and eating them... those are call evil people. Every race has evil people who get jollies out of raping and killing people that doesn't mean that every race is evil by default now does it? So far there's been no sign that letting the Architect was the bad thing to do. In the Epilogue it says that the attacks on the Dwarves have all but stopped and now in DA2 they are working side by side with the Wardens... I'm not seeing this horrible downside that people seem to be looking for.

Violating women and force feeding them darkspawn isn't just evil, its reproduction.. Thats how they reproduce.. They wont stop reproducing. If they become sentient then they are less likely to accept their race dying out so why would they stop reproducing?

Hoping they will come up with another means of reproduction is a massive gamble.. Not worth the risk and very unlikely within the next few generations if at all

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 28 mars 2011 - 01:30 .

[Parrk]

Want to sell: Prestine Orlesian Warden's Greatsword (only dropped once).

[ISpeakTheTruth]

XxDeonxX wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The fact that Witherend launched a sneak attack against Vigil's Keep and the Architect's experiments kept failing miserably (from the Archdemon to the Mother) made me consider that awakening all the darkspawn probably isn't a good idea, especially when it's said they violate women and eat people.

I understand why people would gamble on the chance that he could end the Blight, but it seemed to open up the good possibility of a never-ending war with intelligent darkspawn who don't suffer from the lack of intellect the "groups of mindless darkspawn" do.

Witherend didn't launch a sneak attack on Vigil's Keep he was sent to as for aid in the fight against the Mother. Naturally becuase he was a Darkspawn people thought he and his group were hostile so they attacked him, he then defended himself.

Its been 3 years since awakening and the Darkspawn have a solid aliance with the Wardens. That alone should speak volumes about them as a specie that the noble Wardens would see them as beings worthy of fighting next to. As for the Archdemon and the Mother they were his first attempts of trying to awaken his people anyone who has taken any science class will tell you that the first time attempting anything drastic and new will probably fail the first few times out. But again look after the first failures clearly things have been going well ever since.

As for vilating women and eating them... those are call evil people. Every race has evil people who get jollies out of raping and killing people that doesn't mean that every race is evil by default now does it? So far there's been no sign that letting the Architect was the bad thing to do. In the Epilogue it says that the attacks on the Dwarves have all but stopped and now in DA2 they are working side by side with the Wardens... I'm not seeing this horrible downside that people seem to be looking for.

Violating women and force feeding them darkspawn isn't just evil, its reproduction.. Thats how they reproduce.. They wont stop reproducing. If they become sentient then they are less likely to accept their race dying out so why would they stop reproducing?

Hoping they will come up with another means of reproduction is a massive gamble.. Not worth the risk and very unlikely within the next few generations if at all

This game takes place in a world where magic can do almost anything I'm sure if the Architect could come up with a potion that gives Darkspawn a mind of their own than he can make a potion so Broodmothers can give birth to other Broodmothers without the need of force feeding other races women.

Once again you seem to be looking over the fact that the Wardens are willing to work with them! The Wardens adre the one group of people who would agree with you on the subject yet they don't. Doesn't that tell you something? For all we know the sane Darkspawn are already reproducing on their own and that's why the Wardens feel comfortable working with them is because they don't need outside help anymore.

Again before bringing up anything else remember that the Wardens trust them, the Wardens are fighting side by side with them do you think all the Wardens are as overly optomistic as me?

[Arppis]

The Angry One wrote...


A small group? They don't lift a finger to help a large city during a foreign invasion that's breaking the accords.
Why were they there in the first place? Obviously they wanted something in Kirkwall even if just supplies.
Maybe afterwards all merchants in Kirkwall should refuse to sell to Grey Wardens on the basis that they must remain neutral and not favour GWs over Darkspawn.

It's a small city. Sorry. But it's not about darkspawn, so they shouldn't get involved. Neutrality is about that. Grey Wardens don't take sides because they want that people will actualy work for them when the time comes. If they would start favouring sides, they would start losing allies.

And if the merchants feel that way, that is their business.

The Angry One wrote...


Let's say just for giggles that
a Blight starts near the Free Marches some time in the future and  the
Wardens need the support of Kirkwall.
The leaders of Kirkwall,
remembering the historical event where in their hour of need the Wardens
did nothing and left them to the mercies of the Arishok if not for the
Champion, tell the Wardens to bugger off.

Yeah. Oops.

Then they have fun times getting swallowed by Blight.

But the wardens would just find a diplomatic way to get things right. No biggie. After all, new blight would happen in 1000 years, that little thing has been forgotten by then.

Modifié par Arppis, 28 mars 2011 - 02:23 .

[Spartansfan8888]

Stroud is the reincarnation of Riordan! (they have the same voice)

[Danjaru]

The Angry One wrote...

If "proper" Grey Warden policy is to never help even with an illegal foreign invasion (not an internal political matter) then I have to wonder how they ever got those treaties of cooperation in Ferelden.

I mean, what.. do all those treaties say "the dwarves, elves, mages and Ferelden humans are hereby obligated to aid the Grey Wardens in their hour of need. The Grey Wardens are not obligated to lift a finger to help the aformentioned parties even if their civilians are being killed by Qunari."

Sounds fair.

You forget that Grey Wardens aren't supposed to be a political faction and cannot involve themselves in political matters. They have to stay neutral so their only enemy are the Darkspawn. And the treaty isn't to save the Wardens, it's to save the people from the Darkspawn, so it's not really a favor to the Wardens but a way to keep the land safe.

And to answer the OP, I like Stroud, the Stoic knight has always been a favorite archetype for me. And I'd like to see what the urgent business they were on was.

Modifié par Danjaru, 28 mars 2011 - 02:35 .

[Parrk]

Danjaru wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

If "proper" Grey Warden policy is to never help even with an illegal foreign invasion (not an internal political matter) then I have to wonder how they ever got those treaties of cooperation in Ferelden.

I mean, what.. do all those treaties say "the dwarves, elves, mages and Ferelden humans are hereby obligated to aid the Grey Wardens in their hour of need. The Grey Wardens are not obligated to lift a finger to help the aformentioned parties even if their civilians are being killed by Qunari."

Sounds fair.

You forget that Grey Wardens aren't supposed to be a political faction and cannot involve themselves in political matters. They have to stay neutral so their only enemy are the Darkspawn. And the treaty isn't to save the Wardens, it's to save the people from the Darkspawn, so it's not really a favor to the Wardens but a way to keep the land safe.

Also, the wardens who did the things mentioned above, were new, alone, and faced with defeating a blight.  They would not have known about the particulars of warden policies, much less had the time required to have followed them,

Every few hundred years when the blight comes, grey wardens do grey warden stuff.  The rest of that statutory and rulemaking crap falls by the wayside.

Those who have a responsibility to defend civilians are the governments of those states.  The wardens are not generally allowed to help because they are normally unwelcome and seen as a nuissance....until they're needed.

What if there were a nato conference in Los Angelas when riots broke out.  Would you fault them for not jumping into the fray? 

[Whailor]

I mean, what.. do all those treaties say "the dwarves, elves, mages and Ferelden humans are hereby obligated to aid the Grey Wardens in their hour of need. The Grey Wardens are not obligated to lift a finger to help the aformentioned parties even if their civilians are being killed by Qunari."

Sounds fair.

Well, Blight is hardly a "Warden's hour of need", it's the need of the nation or the whole world. Wardens are simply the only organization specifically created to deal with this threat. And they need those treaties as a backup in case some try to ignore the "duty", so to say - Blight affects every nation, and every race. But it is in no way a "Wardens hour of need".

[LobselVith8]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The fact that Witherend launched a sneak attack against Vigil's Keep and the Architect's experiments kept failing miserably (from the Archdemon to the Mother) made me consider that awakening all the darkspawn probably isn't a good idea, especially when it's said they violate women and eat people.

I understand why people would gamble on the chance that he could end the Blight, but it seemed to open up the good possibility of a never-ending war with intelligent darkspawn who don't suffer from the lack of intellect the "groups of mindless darkspawn" do.

Witherend didn't launch a sneak attack on Vigil's Keep he was sent to as for aid in the fight against the Mother. Naturally becuase he was a Darkspawn people thought he and his group were hostile so they attacked him, he then defended himself.

That's what the Architect claimed. Considering they snuck underneath Vigil's Keep in a large, armed force, I don't see the sincereity of the Architect's claims. If Witherend's goals were altruistic, why was he kicking defeated soldiers off the roof to their deaths? Why did the Architect do nothing when one of his followers killed the elves to start a feud between Velanna and humanity? Also, the Architect also claimed the Grey Wardens were brought to him dead, and we know that wasn't true, either.

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Its been 3 years since awakening and the Darkspawn have a solid aliance with the Wardens. That alone should speak volumes about them as a specie that the noble Wardens would see them as beings worthy of fighting next to.

We know next to nothing about the alliance, or what's to stop the intelligent darkspawn from defying the Architect and declaring war on humanity. The Architect couldn't control the Mother and her followers any more than he can control any of the newly sentient darkspawn.

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

As for the Archdemon and the Mother they were his first attempts of trying to awaken his people anyone who has taken any science class will tell you that the first time attempting anything drastic and new will probably fail the first few times out. But again look after the first failures clearly things have been going well ever since.

He also wanted to turn everyone into a ghoul in The Calling. He's not a character I'd personally trust.

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

As for vilating women and eating them... those are call evil people.

That's how the darkspawn reproduce - and the Architect never said he found an alternative means for the darkspawn to procreate.

[RevanchistStenn]

There's only one Stroud I like:

[TobiTobsen]

What? Wardens allied with the Architects Darkspawn? Did i miss something in DA2? I killed the Architect the second I got the chance to do it in DAA and didn't heard anything about him in my playthroughs.

Can somebody enlighten me?

[LobselVith8]

TobiTobsen wrote...

What? Wardens allied with the Architects Darkspawn? Did i miss something in DA2? I killed the Architect the second I got the chance to do it in DAA and didn't heard anything about him in my playthroughs.

Can somebody enlighten me?

I killed him, too, but there's currently a bug in DA2 where Nathaniel (in the Deep Roads quest in Act III) doesn't recognize if the Architect was killed. I'm hoping it gets patched soon.

[TobiTobsen]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

What? Wardens allied with the Architects Darkspawn? Did i miss something in DA2? I killed the Architect the second I got the chance to do it in DAA and didn't heard anything about him in my playthroughs.

Can somebody enlighten me?

I killed him, too, but there's currently a bug in DA2 where Nathaniel (in the Deep Roads quest in Act III) doesn't recognize if the Architect was killed. I'm hoping it gets patched soon.

Ah okay, thanks. Never got the Deep Road quest in Act III. My save import always triggers Fools Gold, don't know why

[Parrk]

The Angry One wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

I have a theory that Stroud is actually simply a reanimated corpse being controlled by his mustache, which has contracted the Blight and uniquely developed sentience and delusions of grandeur. He's taking those other Wardens to a nest of such sentient Blighted Mustaches in order to likewise infect them and begin his rise to power.

This in DLC nao.

This would also resolve one of the serious issues I  am having with the game....wanting to make out with my sister (not mine, but hawke's).

If Bethany were to have a big cheesy mustache, then I think that I would not find her so attractive.


But what if I'm wrong?

dun  dun  duuuuuuuuunnnnnnn