200 réponses à ce sujet

[Myounage]

After taking ten years to resurrect Flemeth and save a city from siege and indirectly causing a war? Haha ... lol. Isn't that bit ... forced? The Warden did a hell of a lot more than that in a single year and this guy's suppose to be more  important? Lol writing fail.

[Warheadz]

But you don't understand my dear friend! Hawke's epic journey from being a Lothering refugee to the Champion of Kirkwall is a gripping piece of art. He braves the Deep Roads! He defeats the Qunari! He incites a big bad war between mages and the rest of the people! He... Ugh...

Okay, I can't do this. I just can't. Yes, the story was ****.

[augustburnt]

Warheadz wrote...

But you don't understand my dear friend! Hawke's epic journey from being a Lothering refugee to the Champion of Kirkwall is a gripping piece of art. He braves the Deep Roads! He defeats the Qunari! He incites a big bad war between mages and the rest of the people! He... Ugh...

Okay, I can't do this. I just can't. Yes, the story was ****.

As I read this I went from wanting to bash your skull in witha club to wanting your autograph.

[Galad22]

In worst case scenario, Hawke is only important in DA3, that would make DA2 Hawkes Origin story.

I think the possibility that DA2 story is just not good is a better option.

[Warheadz]

It all depends on the sales and feedback, but I believe Hawke will be forgotten and left as a footnote for a while. They will jsut refer to him as the guy who was the catalyst, but nothing more.

I truly hope we will get a new, "origins-style" customizable character in DA3 if it ever comes.

[Galad22]

Warheadz wrote...

It all depends on the sales and feedback, but I believe Hawke will be forgotten and left as a footnote for a while. They will jsut refer to him as the guy who was the catalyst, but nothing more.

I truly hope we will get a new, "origins-style" customizable character in DA3 if it ever comes.

Yep, this is my wish as well. I want to play as a dwarf or elf again.

[FastimusRex]

I don't think it was sh!t at all. I think they are two distinctly different stories. DA:O was intended (imo) to be a freeform story: dalish elf savior, dwarven commoner savior, human noble savior etc. That directly influences the country of Fereldan, and grants an even more legendary status to the Grey Wardens. Not to mention, potentially changes the way people (races, castes) view each other.

Depending on your DA:O choices, a lot changed in Fereldan. The Dalish have the Brecilian all to themselves, no encroachment to worry about, Dwarven commoners are more respected in Orzimmar etc. It was purely freeform that simply affects one area drastically, and, perhaps by osmosis, will effect countries throughout Thedas.

It's apparent that Hawke's story can only go two ways. You're male/female who supported the templars or the mages. In doing this, you provided a catalyst for great change within the world of Thedas (perhaps exculding Tevinter). The writing of DA:2 didn't suck, quite frankly. Bioware fans just aren't used to being prodded one way or another with little room for individuality (at least withing Dragon Age and Mass Effect).

However, both of those franchises have ultimate goals that will be addressed within the conclusion of the respective stories. Hawke was simply the set up for something bigger in the future. And, taking politics into account. The Warden did his/her job, he defeated a Blight. That was simply their job and duty as a Grey Warden. Hawke was a victim of circumstance and rose to the occasion to bring about change. (by aiding Anders you inadvertantly cause the catalyst. He couldn't have done that without Hawke.)

So, by that logic, Hawke is more of a dictionary-definition hero than the Warden. Hawke, a victim of chance who rose to greatness VS a Grey Warden who did his/her job (very well, sure. Still their duty)

Modifié par FastimusRex, 27 mars 2011 - 01:53 .

[Warheadz]

FastimusRex wrote...

I don't think it was sh!t at all. I think they are two distinctly different stories. DA:O was intended (imo) to be a freeform story: dalish elf savior, dwarven commoner savior, human noble savior etc. That directly influences the country of Fereldan, and grants an even more legendary status to the Grey Wardens. Not to mention, potentially changes the way people (races, castes) view each other.

Depending on your DA:O choices, a lot changed in Fereldan. The Dalish have the Brecilian all to themselves, no encroachment to worry about, Dwarven commoners are more respected in Orzimmar etc. It was purely freeform that simply affects one area drastically, and, perhaps by osmosis, will effect countries throughout Thedas.

It's apparent that Hawke's story can only go two ways. You're male/female who supported the templars or the mages. In doing this, you provided a catalyst for great change within the world of Thedas (perhaps exculding Tevinter). The writing of DA:2 didn't suck, quite frankly. Bioware fans just aren't used to being prodded one way or another with little room for individuality (at least withing Dragon Age and Mass Effect).

However, both of those franchises have ultimate goals that will be addressed within the conclusion of the respective stories. Hawke was simply the set up for something bigger in the future. And, taking politics into account. The Warden did his/her job, he defeated a Blight. That was simply their job and duty as a Grey Warden. Hawke was a victim of circumstance and rose to the occasion to bring about change. (by aiding Anders you inadvertantly cause the catalyst. She couldn't have done that without Hawke.)

So, by that logic, Hawke is more of a hero than the Warden. Hawke, a victim of chance who rose to greatness VS a Grey Warden who did his/her job (very well, sure. Still their duty)

I am sorry that I won't start debating this here and now, since I have said my opinion many times already. But my opinion on the story in short: It was an ambitious idea, but it was poorly executed. There was no focus and no overarching plot, the time skips were meaningless and you didn't really (At least I didn't) feel like the Champion, the most important person. You were still doing the same errands.

The idea itself was good, but the execution was poor.

[The Xand]

Well at least in Dragon Age 3 they will be able to say that "Hawke did this and Hawke did that" instead of a generic nameless hero doing some generic saving the world against generic evil hordes.

Modifié par The Xand, 27 mars 2011 - 01:55 .

[Ixalmaris]

Hawke pressed buttons. That makes him more awesome than the Warden.

[FastimusRex]

@Warheadz

Yeah, I don't disagree that it was poorly executed. Simply saying that both were integral to the Dragon Age story. Else Bioware wouldn't have released DA:2. Despite it redundancy and icky flaws, it was a good enough game. Not used to Bioware doing 'good enough' though. More used to losing my socks in the process of playing.

[AkiKishi]

Hawke is just a scape goat for events that were going to happen anyway. Maybe they would have taken a bit longer but once things get the state they were between Templars and Mages in act 1 it's just a matter of time.

The Xand wrote...

Well at least in Dragon Age 3 they will be able to say that "Hawke did this and Hawke did that" instead of a generic nameless hero doing some generic saving the world against generic evil hordes.

Some truth to that, in FFX and X-2 there were lots of awkward pauses because you could change Tidus' name.
If they are doing it to avoid work on transfer data, then that means the game will be on rails.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 27 mars 2011 - 02:31 .

[0x30A88]

POSSIBLE SPOILERS IF YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED THE GAME THROUGH.

No, he might have saved a city state, but that war in the end, that's Meredith's effort. DA3 should have a character fix the mess -- and with the origins back to allow better replayabillity, VOed protagonist is great, but not really neccesary if not having it would mean 3 races and origins again.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS IF YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED THE GAME THROUGH.

[Warheadz]

Gisle Aune wrote...

POSSIBLE SPOILERS IF YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED THE GAME THROUGH.

No, he might have saved a city state, but that war in the end, that's Meredith's effort. DA3 should have a character fix the mess -- and with the origins back to allow better replayabillity, VOed protagonist is great, but not really neccesary if not having it would mean 3 races and origins again.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS IF YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED THE GAME THROUGH.

My own opinion is that we should never see Kirkwall again. And we should have real choices that can actually affect what will happen.

[Yaaman]

I don't recall having any choices that actually mattered in DA:O. The ending was the same no matter what you did. Unless you count text boxes after the game ends.

[TJPags]

Change. Catalyst. Nice buzz words. I think people are using them wrong, though.

A Catalyst is that which causes something else to occur. In other words, the catylyst of the mage-templar war is whatever caused that war. While we may disagree about what exactly it was (and since this is a non-spoiler forum, I won't list options) none of them are Hawke. Nothing Hawke does starts that war. Nothing Hawke does impacts whether there is or is not a war. Hawke is sort of like Forrest Gump - Hawke was around for a whole lot of important things, but didn't actually do any of them him/herself.

Change. Yes, Morrigan in her ad for DA2 - also known as the end of WH - tells us change is coming. Flemeth tells us change is coming too. The only thing that changed is that there is now a war going on. Again, as I said above, Hawke didn't start that war, Hawke is no great "herald of change" or anything.

The game was a nice idea. Maybe with another year of development time it could have worked. As it was, we wound up with an okay game which felt more like reading a book (in that it was all planned out and couldn't be altered) than it did role playing (which implies, to me, that I can alter things).

And the thought that DA2 was fine, because it "sets things up" for DA3 . . . .that thought disgusts me.

[Craig Bobknock]

 just look at Hawke. look at him, LOL. His swooshed hair and j'moke-ish looks.

he looks like a product straight out of a focus group.

[Funkjoker]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Hawke pressed buttons. That makes him more awesome than the Warden.

LOL. QFT [except for the last bit]

It's just stupid marketing, as always. For DAO it was "you become a grey warden, participent of an ancient order" without any exaggerated promises.

However, in DA2, when you push a button, something awesome has to happen. Actionfying ftw. [/sarcasm]

[Warheadz]

TJPags wrote...

Change. Catalyst. Nice buzz words. I think people are using them wrong, though.

A Catalyst is that which causes something else to occur. In other words, the catylyst of the mage-templar war is whatever caused that war. While we may disagree about what exactly it was (and since this is a non-spoiler forum, I won't list options) none of them are Hawke. Nothing Hawke does starts that war. Nothing Hawke does impacts whether there is or is not a war. Hawke is sort of like Forrest Gump - Hawke was around for a whole lot of important things, but didn't actually do any of them him/herself.

I know and I agree with you, but I am 100% sure that they WILL treat Hawke as he was the catalyst, they won't say "Oh gee, remember that champion who standed there when stuff happened?". They will go with the more dramatic "He caused it" although Hawke was nothing more than a bystander.
And yes, I know what catalyst means.

And the thought that DA2 was fine, because it "sets things up" for DA3 . . . .that thought disgusts me.

That's something we can agree on.

[TJPags]

Warheadz wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Change. Catalyst. Nice buzz words. I think people are using them wrong, though.

A Catalyst is that which causes something else to occur. In other words, the catylyst of the mage-templar war is whatever caused that war. While we may disagree about what exactly it was (and since this is a non-spoiler forum, I won't list options) none of them are Hawke. Nothing Hawke does starts that war. Nothing Hawke does impacts whether there is or is not a war. Hawke is sort of like Forrest Gump - Hawke was around for a whole lot of important things, but didn't actually do any of them him/herself.

I know and I agree with you, but I am 100% sure that they WILL treat Hawke as he was the catalyst, they won't say "Oh gee, remember that champion who standed there when stuff happened?". They will go with the more dramatic "He caused it" although Hawke was nothing more than a bystander.
And yes, I know what catalyst means.

And the thought that DA2 was fine, because it "sets things up" for DA3 . . . .that thought disgusts me.

That's something we can agree on.

Yes, they likely will do exactly that.  Rememeber, they kind of marketed the game as telling us about Hawke, the most important person in Thedas.   So I have no doubt they will continue - assuming they continue discussing Hawke - acting like he/she was just that.

And yes, you seem to know what catalyst means - that was intended for others. 

[Annarl]

It's called Marketing.

[Capeo]

Yaaman wrote...

I don't recall having any choices that actually mattered in DA:O. The ending was the same no matter what you did. Unless you count text boxes after the game ends.

This.  God, I'm so sick of people here claiming DAO or ME had such meaningful choices when they didn't at all.  All the choices are window dressing that don't effect the actual story at all.  They just effect who is in your party, a few cutscenes and a titlecard at the end of the game.  DA2 has just as many "meaningful" choices as DAO in that there are no truly meaningful choices at all as far as the main plot plays out.  The only recent game that had any meaningful choices that truly effected the game and how the story played out was Fallout: New Vegas.

[TheTWF]

The Xand wrote...

Well at least in Dragon Age 3 they will be able to say that "Hawke did this and Hawke did that" instead of a generic nameless hero doing some generic saving the world against generic evil hordes.

This. There is NOTHING the Warden did that hasn't been done a million times in fantasy, with the one exception of the Landsmeet, which is the ONLY memorable scene in the game with the debatable exception of killing Connor. And that's what I think the dev team was thinking of when they made DA2.

It's not done that well, but they at least tried at a more political intrigue/mutiple battlefront style story. If DA3 returns to the mute fill-in-the-blanks-with-nothing cardboard cutout hero battling the mute fill-in-the-blanks-with-nothing cardboard cutouts called the Darkspawn, it would be more of a deal hinderer to me then a DA2 clone.  

[PPR223]

Capeo wrote...

Yaaman wrote...

I don't recall having any choices that actually mattered in DA:O. The ending was the same no matter what you did. Unless you count text boxes after the game ends.

This.  God, I'm so sick of people here claiming DAO or ME had such meaningful choices when they didn't at all.  All the choices are window dressing that don't effect the actual story at all.  They just effect who is in your party, a few cutscenes and a titlecard at the end of the game.  DA2 has just as many "meaningful" choices as DAO in that there are no truly meaningful choices at all as far as the main plot plays out.  The only recent game that had any meaningful choices that truly effected the game and how the story played out was Fallout: New Vegas.

I agree, in DA:O we had Warden dies, Loghain dies, Alistair dies or nobody dies. I just don't consider these much of a difference, because in the end the Arch Demon dies no matter what. The only other choices were who we had in the last battle; Templars or Mages, Wolves or Elves, Dwarves or Dwarves and Golums. These aren't exactly story impacting changes, when most, if not all, of these choices will make little to no difference in the upcoming DA games. I still like DA:O though, but this is a fallacy.

[RPGrogue]

I have a feeling you will be hawke in DA3, I doubt hes done, I am pretty sure him indirectly or directly (and yes it is possible, in my first play through i tried to keep everything cool, but because of hawke's destiny no matter what you do you some how start a war. In my second playthrough he knew what he was doing, and I made it pretty clear with my character) starting the war wont be all he does