200 réponses à ce sujet

[Aloradus]

Capeo wrote...

This.  God, I'm so sick of people here claiming DAO or ME had such meaningful choices when they didn't at all.  All the choices are window dressing that don't effect the actual story at all.  They just effect who is in your party, a few cutscenes and a titlecard at the end of the game.  DA2 has just as many "meaningful" choices as DAO in that there are no truly meaningful choices at all as far as the main plot plays out.  The only recent game that had any meaningful choices that truly effected the game and how the story played out was Fallout: New Vegas.

In your mind its fluff- okay everyone is entitled to their opinion. To me I am not sure how deciding the actual fate of groups of people and companions is fluff.   Sure in the end we have to kill the Arc Daemon, but the player IS the key instrument in what happens on the way (even if you do not get to choose the events that force you places at least you have SOME choices and a feeling of involvement lol)  Did you feel DA:O could have finished without your character? Now how about Kirkwall, seems it would have happened without Hawke (Anders would have had such a hard time finding someone else to distract the grand cleric.. and Meredith certainly could have killed the Qunari)

Origins isn’t an original tale by any means but it was executed better, DA:2 trips all over the place.  DA:2 would have worked far better if your character was actually involved in the plot to overthrow the chantry, or at least free the Mages in Kirkwall - why not make that his goal.  Then Anders crosses you and takes it to far…

Modifié par Aloradus, 27 mars 2011 - 04:38 .

[Aradace]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight OP, like the story in Origins was ANY better? Seriously, at least they attempted some sort or originality for the story in DA2 by going with the "political" aspects. Where as the whole song and dance of "The hero saves us all from a big bad menacing ancient evil" has been done so many f***ing times that you can literally see the ending coming 10 minutes into the game.

[Johnny20]

Well, my Warden not only stopped a Blight, he also became the "Champion of Redcliff", which is, to be honest, far more interesting than Kirkwall.

I rekon the Warden is far more important, but that is up to Bioware, isn't it.

Modifié par Johnny20, 27 mars 2011 - 04:42 .

[Aloradus]

Aradace wrote...

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight OP, like the story in Origins was ANY better? Seriously, at least they attempted some sort or originality for the story in DA2 by going with the "political" aspects. Where as the whole song and dance of "The hero saves us all from a big bad menacing ancient evil" has been done so many f***ing times that you can literally see the ending coming 10 minutes into the game.

I highly doubt he is bemoaning not having to fight an all powerful faceless dragon... People are whinging because Hawke at best is a side character.  Just because this story isnt the typical fantasy ripoff like DA:O doesn't mean it was done well. 

[Medhia Nox]

You see - I believe a good RPG is like life, it's about the journey, not the destination.

I felt the Warden's journey had worth - every place he went, he impacted greatly. He changed Redcliff, he changed the Dalish Elves, the Dwarves of Orzammar, and the mages of the Circle.

I felt that Hawke was a spectator throughout the entire thing. The only quest I felt I had any impact upon was Feynriel... and romances, but they don't amount to much at all to me. I feel romances have never been well done in any RPG I've ever played - they're used for tween titilation - not any form of real storytelling.

===

So yes, the destinations are both unavoidable - but I feel the Warden's journey was far more relevant, but I don't feel I've ever encountered a less relevant RPG main character than Hawke.

That being said - the destination of Hawke's journey is so unpalatable to me, that I simply would not have gone on it. It's a Goth teens version of "dark and edgy" - it has no gravitas. There is zero weight in Ander's actions - it's " 'splosion, melodrama, now... FIGHT!" There is no reflection on the event... and I did not purchase this game with the understanding that it was "Part 1". I don't appreciate being deceived.

====

When the man telling the story, Varric, seems to have more relevancy than the character the story is supposed to be about... I state that, for me, it was a fail.

[Aradace]

Aloradus wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight OP, like the story in Origins was ANY better? Seriously, at least they attempted some sort or originality for the story in DA2 by going with the "political" aspects. Where as the whole song and dance of "The hero saves us all from a big bad menacing ancient evil" has been done so many f***ing times that you can literally see the ending coming 10 minutes into the game.

I highly doubt he is bemoaning not having to fight an all powerful faceless dragon... People are whinging because Hawke at best is a side character.  Just because this story isnt the typical fantasy ripoff like DA:O doesn't mean it was done well. 

While that's true, I personally disagree because I enjoyed the story in DA2 in comparison to Origins simply because it wasnt your typical "fight the ancient evil and win" scenario.

[TJPags]

Aradace wrote...

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight OP, like the story in Origins was ANY better? Seriously, at least they attempted some sort or originality for the story in DA2 by going with the "political" aspects. Where as the whole song and dance of "The hero saves us all from a big bad menacing ancient evil" has been done so many f***ing times that you can literally see the ending coming 10 minutes into the game.

Whether the DAO story was original or done thousands of times has nothing to do with whether Hawke was the most important character to Dragon Age.

Neither does whether the DA2 story is original, well done, or crap.

[Aradace]

TJPags wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight OP, like the story in Origins was ANY better? Seriously, at least they attempted some sort or originality for the story in DA2 by going with the "political" aspects. Where as the whole song and dance of "The hero saves us all from a big bad menacing ancient evil" has been done so many f***ing times that you can literally see the ending coming 10 minutes into the game.

Whether the DAO story was original or done thousands of times has nothing to do with whether Hawke was the most important character to Dragon Age.

Neither does whether the DA2 story is original, well done, or crap.

True I suppose.  IMO though, I think Hawke is more important than the Warden because what Hawke is involved in is pretty much shaping the world where as all the warden did, was stop the fifth blight before it even really had a chance to get underway.  Which, not to completely discredit that achievement, is impressive.  But who do you think the people of Thedas are going to be talking about 100 years down the road?  The one who stopped the fifth blight?  Or the one responsible for the world being the way it is at the time?

[Capeo]

Aloradus wrote...

In your mind its fluff- okay everyone is entitled to their opinion. To me I am not sure how deciding the actual fate of groups of people and companions is fluff.   Sure in the end we have to kill the Arc Daemon, but the player IS the key instrument in what happens on the way (even if you do not get to choose the events that force you places at least you have SOME choices and a feeling of involvement lol)  Did you feel DA:O could have finished without your character? Now how about Kirkwall, seems it would have happened without Hawke (Anders would have had such a hard time finding someone else to distract the grand cleric.. and Meredith certainly could have killed the Qunari)

Origins isn’t an original tale by any means but it was executed better, DA:2 trips all over the place.  DA:2 would have worked far better if your character was actually involved in the plot to overthrow the chantry, or at least free the Mages in Kirkwall - why not make that his goal.  Then Anders crosses you and takes it to far…

Because you don't decide the fate of groups of people.  You just decide which armies you can take with you at the end of the game.  That is the only real impact of those choices, which doesn't impact what actually happens in any way shape or form.  In DA2 you have just as many choices regarding your party as far as who you can keep or kill except in DA2 the members of your party actually feel like they have their own real motivations.

And the events in DA2 hinge around you entirely.  Your actions unleash the idol which drives the story.  You just don't know it at the time.  Your actions get your mother and possibly your sister killed.  You personally kill the Arishok and save the city from destruction at the hands of the Qunari.  If you didn't do that then Anders plan would never had come to fruition.  While it's true you can't save the Chantry you can kill Anders for doing so and party members turn on you based on your decisions at the end.  You couldn't avoid killing the Archdemon either.  Nothing in DA2 would play out like it did without Hawkes involvement.   

[Medhia Nox]

Some people must not read a broad range of fantasy literature. Dragon Age 2 is not original, or even "more" original.

Greek mythology deals with this all the time, historical fantasy is an entire sub-genre, even Harry Potter isn't about fighting a monolithic evil... because if you think that Voldomort is anything but a device by which Harry Potter overcomes his "Shadow" and becomes a man - I'm not sure you're understanding Harry Potter.

Honestly - if every "Leader" simply becomes a "monolithic evil" - then every piece of literature does that... it's called the "antagonist". There's a difference between an "antagonist" and a "monolithic force of pure evil".

The archdaemon isn't even one of them - it's a force, created by its minions (unique argument there actually) - of which there are serveral archdaemons. Honestly - that bears very little resemblance at all to "The Dark Lord Sauron" (who I could argue isn't even monolithic, except that he is "for the time period LotR is told")  - except that they're both "antagonists".

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 27 mars 2011 - 05:06 .

[TJPags]

Aradace wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight OP, like the story in Origins was ANY better? Seriously, at least they attempted some sort or originality for the story in DA2 by going with the "political" aspects. Where as the whole song and dance of "The hero saves us all from a big bad menacing ancient evil" has been done so many f***ing times that you can literally see the ending coming 10 minutes into the game.

Whether the DAO story was original or done thousands of times has nothing to do with whether Hawke was the most important character to Dragon Age.

Neither does whether the DA2 story is original, well done, or crap.

True I suppose.  IMO though, I think Hawke is more important than the Warden because what Hawke is involved in is pretty much shaping the world where as all the warden did, was stop the fifth blight before it even really had a chance to get underway.  Which, not to completely discredit that achievement, is impressive.  But who do you think the people of Thedas are going to be talking about 100 years down the road?  The one who stopped the fifth blight?  Or the one responsible for the world being the way it is at the time?

They'll probably be talking about the price of turnips or mutton. 

But yes, to be serious, I agree the events of DA2 - the mage-templar war -  seems more important, because those events involve all of Thedas, while the Blight really only touched Ferelden.  So I see your point there.

What I disagree with is Hawke's importance to those events.  Hawke didn't start the war, didn't pevent the war, was simply there when it started. 

As Cassandra says to Varric in one of the cutscenes - might be the end of either Act 1 or 2, or the start of Act 3 - "that's not how I understood it to happen".  She believed Hawke had an agenda, that Hawke travelled to Kirkwall with a goal in mind, that Hawke befriended/recruited people to further that agenda, etc.  She is learning, at that point, through Varric, that it simply wasn't the case - that Hawke had no agenda other than protecting the family and building stabilty for him/her and the family.

In short, she THOUGHT Hawke was the catylyst for these events, an important person who was intimately involved in making them happen.  She learns that Hawke was not - simply someone who was well known who happened to be around when they happened.

[Aradace]

@TJ - Agreed, however, unless Varric passes the story down and/or somehow keeps how things "really" happened alive long after he is dead, how do you think people are going to remember it? The way it really happened, or the exaggerated "Legend" that people apparently are already whispering about?

[Ramus Quaritch]

I think Dragon Age 2 was made to set up Dragon Age 3. We have Sandal's prophecy, rumors of a war between Ferelden and Orlais, a mage revolution across Thedas, Flemeth being alive, a potential Qunari invasion, and Morrigan and her (potential) Old God Baby. Heck Arl Foreshadow's note in DA:O basically said that you will go to Orlais, search for Arlathan, and deal with the Old God Baby. The story is looking really good for Dragon Age 3 and I hope they take the time they need to make it a high quality product, as DA 2 was clearly rushed. I'd totally wait longer if it meant DA 3 would be an outstanding game.

[Aradace]

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

I think Dragon Age 2 was made to set up Dragon Age 3. We have Sandal's prophecy, rumors of a war between Ferelden and Orlais, a mage revolution across Thedas, Flemeth being alive, a potential Qunari invasion, and Morrigan and her (potential) Old God Baby. Heck Arl Foreshadow's note in DA:O basically said that you will go to Orlais, search for Arlathan, and deal with the Old God Baby. The story is looking really good for Dragon Age 3 and I hope they take the time they need to make it a high quality product, as DA 2 was clearly rushed. I'd totally wait longer if it meant DA 3 would be an outstanding game.

Regardless, Im still not pre-ordering it lol.

[TJPags]

Aradace wrote...

@TJ - Agreed, however, unless Varric passes the story down and/or somehow keeps how things "really" happened alive long after he is dead, how do you think people are going to remember it? The way it really happened, or the exaggerated "Legend" that people apparently are already whispering about?

Probably the Legend.  Which I'd be fine with, as a background for a game involving the war, except for the fact that I know the truth.  So hearing the Legend on everyone's lips as background for, say, DA3 - the version Cass believed, that Hawke intended all this, for example - will annoy me to no end,

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

I think Dragon Age 2 was made to set up Dragon Age 3. We have Sandal's prophecy, rumors of a war between Ferelden and Orlais, a mage revolution across Thedas, Flemeth being alive, a potential Qunari invasion, and Morrigan and her (potential) Old God Baby. Heck Arl Foreshadow's note in DA:O basically said that you will go to Orlais, search for Arlathan, and deal with the Old God Baby. The story is looking really good for Dragon Age 3 and I hope they take the time they need to make it a high quality product, as DA 2 was clearly rushed. I'd totally wait longer if it meant DA 3 would be an outstanding game.

I need to start by saying that this is not directed to you at all.  I'm simply using your post as an example here, Ramus.

That said, taking the bolded part, this is utter and complete BS.  No work should exist solely to "set up" the next.  I find it lame and lazy, whether its a game, a movie, or a book.  This is what prologues are for - prologues which can exist in movies, books, and in games, and should where needed.

The idea that DA2 exists solely to explain to me the state of the world in Thedas at the start of DA3 - assuming that's what DA3 will deal with, which is unknown but seems to be common thought here on these forums - is disgusting and distasteful to me.

And please don't come back with "middle book syndrome" explanations.  Middle books should not exist solely to set up the background for the final piece of the puzzle.  They should tell a discreet portion of the story, while yes, leading to the end game - after all, that's what a series does, it has a start, a middle, and an end that everything leads to.  I despise books which do this, I despise movies which do this, and I will despise a game which does this.

If this is all DA2, it should have been a DLC, not a full game.  It should have been an expansion pack "prequel" for DA3 (learn the truth behind the Champion, for instance).  But if someone is going to market something as part 2 of a greater series, be it a trilogy or a longer work, do not make it simply a "set up" for the events of later releases.

I do, and will always, consider that lame, lazy and unacceptable, and will always call it lame, lazy and unacceptable.  And anyone who simply accepts that as an acceptable situation will baffle me.

Edit - fixed quote.

Modifié par TJPags, 27 mars 2011 - 05:26 .

[Big I]

The Warden is more important than Hawke to Thedas.

The Warden:

- determined the king of Orzammar
- determined the ruler of Fereldan
- determined the fate of the Urn of Sacred Ashes, the Chantry version of the Grail
- determined the fate of the Anvil of the Void, the dwarf version of  the Grail
- (potentially) defeated the Mother and the Children
- (potentially) determined the fate of the Architect and the Disciples
- (potentially) provided a test case for Wardens holding political power outside the Anderfels
- (potentially) uncovered the research and determined the fate of Avernus
- (potentially) uncovered the lost thaig of Amgarrak
- was granted a boon with far reaching consequences by the ruler of Fereldan
- defeated the Archdemon and ended the Fifth Blight
- (potentially) caused the spirit of the Old God Urthemiel to be reborn in human form


Hawke;

- protected the life of Flemeth from Morrigan
- went farther into the Deep Roads than anyone felt possible
- (potentially) earned the respect of the Arishok, who he then (potentially) killed
- (potentially) helped determine the fate of the Tome of Koslun, the qunari version of the Grail
- was friends with the guy who sparked the templar and Circle revolts
- (potentially) became Viscout of a city-state in the Free Marches

[SexBomb]

Aradace wrote...

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight OP, like the story in Origins was ANY better? Seriously, at least they attempted some sort or originality for the story in DA2 by going with the "political" aspects. Where as the whole song and dance of "The hero saves us all from a big bad menacing ancient evil" has been done so many f***ing times that you can literally see the ending coming 10 minutes into the game.

Originality means nothing, without execution.  The reason the whole "hero saves us all from a big bad menacing ancient evil" things is done so often is because it WORKS.

[omgtehwhale]

hawke was a catalsyt for the greater events. he neither directly caused them nor managed to directly halt them. he was just in the right place at the right time(or the wrong place.)

and hawke and co were as important or more important to the future of thedas than the warden. Most of the wardens actions altered fereldan, not the whole of thedas.

Modifié par omgtehwhale, 27 mars 2011 - 07:51 .

[Redneck1st]

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

I think Dragon Age 2 was made to set up Dragon Age 3. We have Sandal's prophecy, rumors of a war between Ferelden and Orlais, a mage revolution across Thedas, Flemeth being alive, a potential Qunari invasion, and Morrigan and her (potential) Old God Baby. Heck Arl Foreshadow's note in DA:O basically said that you will go to Orlais, search for Arlathan, and deal with the Old God Baby. The story is looking really good for Dragon Age 3 and I hope they take the time they need to make it a high quality product, as DA 2 was clearly rushed. I'd totally wait longer if it meant DA 3 would be an outstanding game.

If this is true with the way for which DA2 turned out I highly doubt that I will be pre odering DA3. I might wait to see what others think of it first before I buy it. DAO was so much more detailed in the going's on and what needed to be done and why.

DA2 lacked allot of things including an ultimate objective. Also the fact that you couldn't dual wield unless you were a thief. But then if you did have say Isabela in your party it took you till almost the end of the game to get her stats up high enough to use the Finese dagger or to be able to open all the locks, disarm all the traps. I mean come on a 41 dexterity to use a dagger? 40 cunning to open all the chests disarm all the traps? That means you would have to forgo raising your stats in things like health and stamina making for a weak thief.

Lack of healing potions and you lose one mage that heals Bethany in chapter 1 and you are asked to kill anders the only other healer by Sebastion or he leaves. Sure there are items in the game that supposedly renerate like the Monolith's Armor as well as for stamina. But they don't work. Not even the regeneration capabilities of the Devor upgrades in the Reavor work. What is up with that and why have them if they don't work?

Didn't even like the way for which they did some of the D/L content this time around. One set of armor was tied to purchasing a game for which had nothing to do with DA2 and wasn't even a rpg like DA. And the DLCs for which you did get were weak.

No I think that I'll wait before I buy DA3. Right now unless some serious changes are made to address some of the things for which I've mentioned above I doubt I will pre order DA3.

[AlexXIV]

Thats-Your-Funeral wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight OP, like the story in Origins was ANY better? Seriously, at least they attempted some sort or originality for the story in DA2 by going with the "political" aspects. Where as the whole song and dance of "The hero saves us all from a big bad menacing ancient evil" has been done so many f***ing times that you can literally see the ending coming 10 minutes into the game.

Originality means nothing, without execution.  The reason the whole "hero saves us all from a big bad menacing ancient evil" things is done so often is because it WORKS.

Well Hawke's story could also have worked if they executed it better.

For example:

Deep Roads. They get maps from Anders and go down there and after a rather short trip and killing a bunch of darkspawn they get to their goal. Honestly, the Warden's journey to the Anvil of the Void felt about 3 times longer, harder and deeper.

Arishok. I could compare it to the Landsmeet where you fight Loghain. For some reason the Landsmeet feels like one of the most important things in DA;O (maybe only second to killing the Archdemon). The Arishok was just like ... kill alot of Qunari and Elves and then deal with the Arishok. And while Hawke is doing it, it never feels as if he/she is the only one who could. I mean Meredith is right behind, and the Qunari never really had a chance. Convincing the people at the Landsmeet though is all the Warden's job. he/she is the only one.

Last battle ... well forced ending in both games, with the Warden being the greatest hero of his/her time and Hawke being a sort of tool. Not only that the player can't make choices, Hawke can't either. Hawke can decide which side he/she fights, but the templars win. Like they probably would have killed the Arishok without Hawke.

I for one really hope I get to play Hawke again in DA3 and this time really feel like this character is the most important person of his/her time. If Hawke's story ends in DA2 even with DLCs, it will be rather forgettable. People will remember the Warden and the guy who decides the war. Who accidently helped starting the war is really just a footnote. They will rather remember Anders and Meredith.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 27 mars 2011 - 08:02 .

[Deztyn]

I side with those who think it was a good idea executed horribly. Which as a fan of Thedas is a much more frustrating place to be in than "Wah! This whole game sucks! Hawke didn't do anything! Dragon Age is ruined forever!"

I think my biggest problem is there's no strong narrative to carry the character along. No set goal. No reason for the player to play every quest the game demands we play.

Oh, so some elf mage boy is missing? Nah. Hawke's got more important things to worry about than some kid. A templar wants to talk in person and far away from Kirkwall? I don't think so. Some girl's templar brother is missing? Well I don't like templars, it's the whole apostate thing and hey, don't I already have 50 sovereigns and the maps? I'd like to go to the Deep Roads now. What? No. Oh. Main Quest. Can not proceed without completing.

Some will point to Origins and complain about the Ashes of Andraste and not being able to make Teagan step up. And it's not an unfair complaint, but mostly if you accepted the very basic premise of "You need an army to fight the Archdemon" you had all the reasons needed to go along with everything the game forced you to do. This is not the case in DA2 where even the main quests feel more like sidequests and the only goal early in the game is "make money so you can make money"

So what would have worked for me? Instead of skipping over the first year in Kirkwall, play it out. Maybe Act I could have been about Hawke taking side jobs to pay back the smugglers/mercenaries faster and the Deep Roads could have been a gamble as part of that plan instead of a business partnership.

Don't want to do that? Fine. Then show us having a falling out with Meeran/Athenril. Show us why we need more money so badly. Give us an untouchable enemy extorting money in exchange for silence about about the Apostate Hawke. Have mom mugged on her way to buy groceries, banter about the creepy neighbor who stares at your sister and show us how awful Lowtown life really is. Give us a reason to care about the money and status not just "Digital Mom wants to move up in the world." and the vague suggestion that having money and fame would make things easier for the apostate.

I don't need Hawke to be the Warden 2.0. I do need a reason to care about Hawke and the things she does.

[Foolsfolly]

Warheadz wrote...

It all depends on the sales and feedback, but I believe Hawke will be forgotten and left as a footnote for a while. They will jsut refer to him as the guy who was the catalyst, but nothing more.

I truly hope we will get a new, "origins-style" customizable character in DA3 if it ever comes.

Except Anders is the catalyst of the war.

All Hawke did was insure Anders didn't die during the Qunari invasion/occuption. That is really the only thing Hawke did, plotwise, that has an impact. The Qunari did not occupy Kirkwall for more than an hour, without Hawke maybe Meredith and Orsino would have defeated the Qunari....but maybe they wouldn't have.

[S Atomeha]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

The Warden is more important than Hawke to Thedas.

The Warden:

- determined the king of Orzammar
- determined the ruler of Fereldan
- determined the fate of the Urn of Sacred Ashes, the Chantry version of the Grail
- determined the fate of the Anvil of the Void, the dwarf version of  the Grail
- (potentially) defeated the Mother and the Children
- (potentially) determined the fate of the Architect and the Disciples
- (potentially) provided a test case for Wardens holding political power outside the Anderfels
- (potentially) uncovered the research and determined the fate of Avernus
- (potentially) uncovered the lost thaig of Amgarrak
- was granted a boon with far reaching consequences by the ruler of Fereldan
- defeated the Archdemon and ended the Fifth Blight
- (potentially) caused the spirit of the Old God Urthemiel to be reborn in human form


Hawke;

- protected the life of Flemeth from Morrigan
- went farther into the Deep Roads than anyone felt possible
-found an idol that led to the knight commanders madness, therefore led to act 3 being possible.
- (potentially) earned the respect of the Arishok, who he then (potentially) killed
- (potentially) helped determine the fate of the Tome of Koslun, the qunari version of the Grail
- gave opportunity to his friend who was friends with the guy who sparked the templar and Circle revolts
- (potentially) became Viscout of a city-state in the Free Marches

fixed.

Modifié par S Atomeha, 27 mars 2011 - 08:06 .

[S Atomeha]

S Atomeha wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

The Warden is more important than Hawke to Thedas.

The Warden:

- determined the king of Orzammar
- determined the ruler of Fereldan
- determined the fate of the Urn of Sacred Ashes, the Chantry version of the Grail
- determined the fate of the Anvil of the Void, the dwarf version of  the Grail
- (potentially) defeated the Mother and the Children
- (potentially) determined the fate of the Architect and the Disciples
- (potentially) provided a test case for Wardens holding political power outside the Anderfels
- (potentially) uncovered the research and determined the fate of Avernus
- (potentially) uncovered the lost thaig of Amgarrak
- was granted a boon with far reaching consequences by the ruler of Fereldan
- defeated the Archdemon and ended the Fifth Blight(reportedly the weakest of them all)
- (potentially) caused the spirit of the Old God Urthemiel to be reborn in human form


Hawke;

- protected the life of Flemeth from Morrigan
- went farther into the Deep Roads than anyone felt possible
-found an idol that led to the knight commanders madness, therefore led to act 3 being possible.
- (potentially) earned the respect of the Arishok, who he then (potentially) killed
- (potentially) helped determine the fate of the Tome of Koslun, the qunari version of the Grail
- gave opportunity to his friend who was friends with the guy who sparked the templar and Circle revolts
- (potentially) became Viscout of a city-state in the Free Marches

fixed.

[cleosilver]

It's the story behind the legend. The legend has Hawke as the important focus of the events but the real story is simply that she/he was just trying to get on with her/his life and got swept up in events.