200 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBlackBaron]

Icinix wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The entire idea that every Circle takes this even as the signal to start a global war for freedom is completely absurd to me.
Are you telling me there's not one circle, not one First Enchanter who looks at Kirkwall and says "Okay.. many innocents were blown up by an abomination, the circle was full of abominations, demons and blood mages, it's First Enchanter turned into a Harvester.. maybe the Chantry's right!".

No they all think that's the time to rise up against their unjust oppressors. Yeah, sure.

I like to think that after that incident there was a period of time where both the mages and templars are eyeing each other off EXPECTING the other to do something. In short order they were all jumping at shadows and someone in each circle or templar group pulled the trigger out of fear and it all just fell apart from there.

Find out in the exciting DLC conclusion to the Dragon Age II saga. All of Ander's secrets revealed!

[Kelgair]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I wonder if that means this is a big problem to the game or not.

Nope, it means people just like to complain about any ol' thing. Repeatedly.

[Foolsfolly]

Not everybody is going to jump on the chance for revolution when in some places the mages are content with their lot in life and templars aren't complete jerks

The Idol was alive! It broke off into multiple pieces, each becoming part of equipment and flew around Thedas to every Knight-Commander.

Gregoir has an Idol Helmet, another has a chest piece, another has a shield, the one in Rivain has a pair of pure lyrium Idol boots. And they all go crazy.

Find out all about it in the DLC!

[Icinix]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The entire idea that every Circle takes this even as the signal to start a global war for freedom is completely absurd to me.
Are you telling me there's not one circle, not one First Enchanter who looks at Kirkwall and says "Okay.. many innocents were blown up by an abomination, the circle was full of abominations, demons and blood mages, it's First Enchanter turned into a Harvester.. maybe the Chantry's right!".

No they all think that's the time to rise up against their unjust oppressors. Yeah, sure.

I like to think that after that incident there was a period of time where both the mages and templars are eyeing each other off EXPECTING the other to do something. In short order they were all jumping at shadows and someone in each circle or templar group pulled the trigger out of fear and it all just fell apart from there.

Not everybody is going to jump on the chance for revolution when in some places the mages are content with their lot in life and templars aren't complete jerks

Thats why I said - jumping at shadows and eventually someone pulled the trigger out of fear.  Even if there was a group of Templars and Mages in harmony...all it takes is one person to get jumpy and EXPECT something to happen to bring it all down.

Regardless, it was just my of explaining why they all decided to end up in flames.

[TheBlackBaron]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Not everybody is going to jump on the chance for revolution when in some places the mages are content with their lot in life and templars aren't complete jerks

The Idol was alive! It broke off into multiple pieces, each becoming part of equipment and flew around Thedas to every Knight-Commander.

Gregoir has an Idol Helmet, another has a chest piece, another has a shield, the one in Rivain has a pair of pure lyrium Idol boots. And they all go crazy.

Find out all about it in the DLC!

Collect all the armor pieces to form your very own Lyrium Armor! Everytime you wear it, something awesome happens! 

[Bryy_Miller]

I would say that Anders is the most important person in the DA universe, if we're going by what started the war.

[Clonedzero]

The Angry One wrote...

The entire idea that every Circle takes this even as the signal to start a global war for freedom is completely absurd to me.
Are you telling me there's not one circle, not one First Enchanter who looks at Kirkwall and says "Okay.. many innocents were blown up by an abomination, the circle was full of abominations, demons and blood mages, it's First Enchanter turned into a Harvester.. maybe the Chantry's right!".

No they all think that's the time to rise up against their unjust oppressors. Yeah, sure.

uh, you realize people were really unclear of the actual events right? hence the entire point of cassandra interrigating varric.

i doubt many people knew anders was an abomination or that orsino turned into a monster or that meredith was corrupted.

the whole "the circle is full of abominations and blood mages" thing can be seen as propoganda. hell the templars must claim that every other day.

[Bryy_Miller]

Clonedzero wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The entire idea that every Circle takes this even as the signal to start a global war for freedom is completely absurd to me.
Are you telling me there's not one circle, not one First Enchanter who looks at Kirkwall and says "Okay.. many innocents were blown up by an abomination, the circle was full of abominations, demons and blood mages, it's First Enchanter turned into a Harvester.. maybe the Chantry's right!".

No they all think that's the time to rise up against their unjust oppressors. Yeah, sure.

uh, you realize people were really unclear of the actual events right? hence the entire point of cassandra interrigating varric.

i doubt many people knew anders was an abomination or that orsino turned into a monster or that meredith was corrupted.

the whole "the circle is full of abominations and blood mages" thing can be seen as propoganda. hell the templars must claim that every other day.

It's basically if 9/11 happened, but instead of the Trade Centers, it was the UN.

It's an event that is confined to one country, but directly affects every other country.

[The Angry One]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I would say that Anders is the most important person in the DA universe, if we're going by what started the war.

Going
by that logic then the assassin of the Archduke Ferdinand is the most
important person in the 20th century given that this kicked off the
first world war which caused events leading to the second.

Clonedzero wrote...

uh, you realize people were really unclear of the actual events right? hence the entire point of cassandra interrigating varric.

i doubt many people knew anders was an abomination or that orsino turned into a monster or that meredith was corrupted.

the whole "the circle is full of abominations and blood mages" thing can be seen as propoganda. hell the templars must claim that every other day.

People were unclear of the specifics, but the big things like, you know, masses of abominations, Anders and the First Enchanter going super abom would be more obvious.

[Foolsfolly]

It's basically if 9/11 happened, but instead of the Trade Centers, it was the UN.

It's an event that is confined to one country, but directly affects every other country.

Or if someone just blew up a church and then the chief of police turned crazy and was shot by her subordinates.

And then the world went nuts.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I always took the "more important person evar!" thing as part of an unsubtle and poor marketing strategy. I am not sure why people are taking it too seriously.

No, Hawke was not the sole actor or major actor in the catalyst that happened. Apparently Cassandra for some reason thinks that the Champion orchestrated it from the very beginning (hence maybe why he is considered more important than he actually is). Depending on perspective and tastes, this could be a good or bad thing.

My issue would be that Hawke was a lazy idiot, but that's another topic.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 mars 2011 - 11:19 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Rats, Angry One beat me to it.
It was Gavrilo Princip, by the way.

I don't think Princip actually understood the implications, unless he had the foresight of Bismarck.
Anders on the otherhand knew exactly what he was doing.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 mars 2011 - 11:21 .

[De_Horst]

I don't know if i'm completely wrong about this but: Wasn't it stated somewhere that the outcome of the whole Kirkwall-Rebellion gave a sign to the mages that it is possible to rebell against the chantry and the templars? If you compare the Kirkwall Annullment to the one you can witness in DA:O there is one major difference: In both cases it ends with most (or even all) of the mages dead, but in the case of Kirkwall it also ends with a city in ruins and the death of the Knight-Commander who wanted the Rite in the first place, which surely could act as the catalyst of the whole rebellion.
But comming back to the original topic of the thread: Hawke could very well be the most important person in Thedas, depending how his story goes on. Take Shepard for comparison, I think it is safe to say that he is among the most important persons of the galaxy, but basically he is just a charismatic guy who knows how to shoot stuff. Hawke's position is similar, the only thing he lacks is the powerful connections who give Shepard the opportunity to save the galaxy (the council/earth military and cerberus respectively) and an alliance with the chantry (to which the epilouge hints) could very well serve that purpose.

[Deztyn]

Then perhaps Anders should have blown up the Divine instead.

That
would have caused a power vacuum in the Chantry which I could see a
strong-willed Templar Knight-Commander taking control of the Templars
and doing what needs to be done while the Chantry is in no shape to
function.

And then the different Knight-Commanders at each Circle
would treat the mages with disgust and fear, with tough tactics and
Rite of Annulment fears spreading wildly in the Circles. Eventually the
mages rebel since it's become apparent that the Chantry can no longer
rein in the Templars.

THAT would have made sense.

I'd play that.

But I'm remembering my personal experiences with people's post 9/11 reactions-- the hate crimes, paranoia, the fear to be in public places, overzealous patriotism and so on--  Transporting it into Thedas, applying it to mages and mundanes and it more or less works for me to see how things could get to that point.

The Angry One wrote...

The entire idea that every Circle takes this even as the signal to start a global war for freedom is completely absurd to me.
Are you telling me there's not one circle, not one First Enchanter who looks at Kirkwall and says "Okay.. many innocents were blown up by an abomination, the circle was full of abominations, demons and blood mages, it's First Enchanter turned into a Harvester.. maybe the Chantry's right!".

No they all think that's the time to rise up against their unjust oppressors. Yeah, sure.

Which is why I prefer the "fear, hatred and suspicion causes things to spiral out of control with the Libertarians and crazier templars and the reasonable people get caught in between" angle.

Definately not the "Anders blew up the Chantry and all the mages lived happily ever after" angle that so many seem to prefer.

[Bryy_Miller]

The Angry One wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I would say that Anders is the most important person in the DA universe, if we're going by what started the war.

Going
by that logic then the assassin of the Archduke Ferdinand is the most 
important person in the 20th century given that this kicked off the 
first world war which caused events leading to the second.

Which I would agree with.

thurmanator692 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I would say that Anders is the most important person in the DA universe, if we're going by what started the war.

Everybody remebers the act before the person who commited it. The person  who kept it going, however is immortalized.
Especially when they then kill both the Knight-Commander and the First Enchanter like it was nothing

Especially if you cheated your character to level 50.

[Clonedzero]

The Angry One wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I would say that Anders is the most important person in the DA universe, if we're going by what started the war.

Going
by that logic then the assassin of the Archduke Ferdinand is the most
important person in the 20th century given that this kicked off the
first world war which caused events leading to the second.

Clonedzero wrote...

uh, you realize people were really unclear of the actual events right? hence the entire point of cassandra interrigating varric.

i doubt many people knew anders was an abomination or that orsino turned into a monster or that meredith was corrupted.

the whole "the circle is full of abominations and blood mages" thing can be seen as propoganda. hell the templars must claim that every other day.

People were unclear of the specifics, but the big things like, you know, masses of abominations, Anders and the First Enchanter going super abom would be more obvious.

i dont remember anyone knowing anders was an abomination other than party members? maybe i missed it but everyoen just called him a mage. even at the end.

and for orisno and other abominations, well you cant really tell that giant monster corpse is orsino anymore can you? and its not like news can reliably get around. specific facts dont travel far.

i was under the assumption that what the whole world knew was that "a mage in kirkwall blew up the chantry and the mages rebelled against the templars to win back their freedoms, while the templars claimed they were all blood mages"

you cant really confirm any of this if you arent actually there. again, why cassandra didn't know the details of any of it.

[Foolsfolly]

Libertarians aren't even in this game. It would have been nice to see the different fraternities of mages in the game, but I guess that'd be too hard to write.

And there's also the fact that Wynne in Awakening says there's a mage meeting talking about leaving the Circle.....and Anders saying that was a bad idea, lulz. These stories would all make the rebellion more interesting and believable.

Burning down a church and having a corrupt Circle annulled doesn't make sense as the inciting point of a revolution. Revolutions tend to be sparked once a big act of oppression or corruption is shown, the Templars in Kirkwall were right.

Except for the whole magical idol made me do it jump the shark moment.

[Bryy_Miller]

The Idol only amplifies your personality. This is why Varric did not go insane from it.

[Foolsfolly]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

The Idol only amplifies your personality. This is why Varric did not go insane from it.

I would accept this if Varric's brother didn't go nutso and have people cut off parts of themselves and eat lyrium. That has nothing to do with his personality.

And when Hawke has a piece of it he attacks 30%+ faster, which has nothing to do with personality.

The Idol just does stuff because the plot requires it to. Like make a golem ghost show up and kill people.

[De_Horst]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

The Idol only amplifies your personality. This is why Varric did not go insane from it.

I would accept this if Varric's brother didn't go nutso and have people cut off parts of themselves and eat lyrium. That has nothing to do with his personality.

And when Hawke has a piece of it he attacks 30%+ faster, which has nothing to do with personality.

The Idol just does stuff because the plot requires it to. Like make a golem ghost show up and kill people.

The golem-ghost is referred to as a Rock-Wraith, a thing which is only seen as ancient myth by dwarfs and is linked to the t(h?)aig in which the idol was found, and even the powerful rune Sandal builds could somehow be explained by Sandals (possible) earlier experience with this certain type of Lyrium. Bartrand was always a greedy bastard and the first thing he does upon laying eyes on the idol is abandoning his brother out of greed, which would fit with the amplifying theorie, he went nuts not because of the shard he still possessed but because he wanted the idol back, which is a completely different matter. Imo it very much reminds me of Creshnibon from R.A.Salvatores Drizzt-books(anyone knows what I mean?)

[Deztyn]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Libertarians aren't even in this game. It would have been nice to see the different fraternities of mages in the game, but I guess that'd be too hard to write.

Pfft. Fraternities in Kirkwall? DA2 has taught me Kirkwall mages only come in three flavors. Blood Mage. Abomination. Bethany.

And there's also the fact that Wynne in Awakening says there's a mage meeting talking about leaving the Circle.....and Anders saying that was a bad idea, lulz. These stories would all make the rebellion more interesting and believable.

Which is why I usually refer to this version as Anders 2.0. I can accept that Justice changed Anders as much as Anders changed Justice. It's the part where Original Model Anders decides that he wants to become an abomination and bring Justice to the mages I have a hard time with.

It wouldn't be so hard to take if there was a good amount of time between Awakening and Act I, but yeah. . . .

[Foolsfolly]

The golem-ghost is referred to as a Rock-Wraith

No, it's not! Do Varric's act 3 quest again. It's just a ghost of a golem.