145 réponses à ce sujet

[Volpes]

I think that what is so frustrating about him is you REALLY want to like him. If you don't roll a mage, you end up dragging him around all game because he is the only one who can heal (Seriously, Merrill can't access the heal spell???). All of the other characters can be ignored if you don't like them.

[ColdEnd]

I for one think that Anders was very well done as a character.

He had deeply rooted psycological problems.. ones that in fact, came up in Awakenings... he had a deeply seated persecution complex as a result of growing up as a mage... and as a result, he also has a pathological need to seek approval and affection from others.

He constantly rages against the templars and the chantry and on the surface he rejects how they treat mages... but you'll notice, when he has conversations with Merril about becomming an abomination and spirits of the Fade, and The Maker... you can see how much of the chantry's ideas have shaped his own. So despite all his bluster; you can tell he is just covering for his own self-loathing.

If you need any more proof about how self-loathing Anders is when you meet him in DA:2, he's living in the absolute filthiest part of the city, punnishing himself. "Hiding from the Templars" or so he says... but neither Hawke nor Bethany or most all of the countless other apostates that you meet outside the circle felt the need to hide themselves in the absolute depths of Darktown.

...and he's not "hiding from the Templars" so very well; when he is compelled to become essentially a Spirit Healer and treat the sick to win approval from everyone around him.

When you think about it; it's really not even a suprise when... he takes the slightest bit of praise/freindship Hawke has to offer... and pushes it to it's absolute limit by trying to create a romance... it's also no suprise that if he isturned down as a love interest... he takes that as a rejection of his whole being.

All in all, I think this future version of Anders was a natural extention of what Anders always had the potential to become.

He's a great character, I hate to make this comparison... but he reminds me of Holden Caulfield from "Catcher in the Rye"... self absorbed, self pitying, mostly irrational... a person whom, if you met them, would make homicide justifyable (and enjoyable). I hated that book with a violent passion because of that character... and to a lesser degree, I really hate Anders.

...but to paraphrase what a previous post said; we wouldn't hate him so much if there wasn't something there, a personality, a substance to him... in order for us to hate it.

Great job Bioware (on that anyway)

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

RomanDark wrote...

His writing was fantastically done, no other character in DA2 had an effect on the players as much as he did.

As for me, I like Anders, I hate what vengeance did to him, but what I hate more is you are powerless to stop it from happening.

I liked him all before the whole "Crawling in my skin...these wounds they need elixer!"

[ThatDancingTurian]

ColdEnd wrote...

He constantly rages against the templars and the chantry and on the surface he rejects how they treat mages... but you'll notice, when he has conversations with Merril about becomming an abomination and spirits of the Fade, and The Maker... you can see how much of the chantry's ideas have shaped his own. So despite all his bluster; you can tell he is just covering for his own self-loathing.

I don't think his motives with Merrill were that deep. He was using whatever argument he could to turn her away from demons because his own demon hates other demons. It was just another moment of hypocrisy, IMO.

[elenilote]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

ColdEnd wrote...

He constantly rages against the templars and the chantry and on the surface he rejects how they treat mages... but you'll notice, when he has conversations with Merril about becomming an abomination and spirits of the Fade, and The Maker... you can see how much of the chantry's ideas have shaped his own. So despite all his bluster; you can tell he is just covering for his own self-loathing.

I don't think his motives with Merrill were that deep. He was using whatever argument he could to turn her away from demons because his own demon hates other demons. It was just another moment of hypocrisy, IMO.

I think he wants to save Merrill from becoming enslaved to blood magic and becoming like him. I *want* to believe that he is genuinely scared that Merrill will go too far one day, and let's face it - she is not exactly quick off the mark sometimes so this is a real possibility

[The Cannibal Factory]

elenilote wrote...

I think he wants to save Merrill from becoming enslaved to blood magic and becoming like him. I *want* to believe that he is genuinely scared that Merrill will go too far one day, and let's face it - she is not exactly quick off the mark sometimes so this is a real possibility

I had them both in my party yesterday and Anders started trying to scare Merrill out of it. Something like:

Anders: "I have glimpses into what it's like to be an abomination. Trapped inside, unable to control what is happening, just looking out from inside and screaming... and then you only know what has happened when you wake up and there's blood on your hands..." (paraphrased)
Merrill: "Stop! Stop it!"

In my game he killed that Mage girl, so that might have helped spark this conversation. Essentially though, it proves that he's not mean to Merrill for the sake of it; he's trying to stop her from ending up on that route (just like everybody else in the game)!

[Neleothesze]

*puts on fire retardant coveralls* The thing that I found unsettling is that he reminds me of Oghren 2.0

Oghren in DA:O was funny. He had his share of misfortune - like losing his caste position because of his temper, his wife dumping him for another woman then going crazy over an ancient smithing tool - but he still managed to come across as a likeable fellow with a quirky sense of humor.
Oghren in Awakening was sad. Most of what my Warden did (who btw was a good friend in Origins) seemed to rub him the wrong way now. His issues, instead of being funny, were exagerated or morphed into something almost completely different. Berzerker Oghren with his love for all things alcoholic became diseased Oghren with commitment issues who won't even check up on his infant kid. (This coming from the man who was willing to brave the Deeproads to get a glimpse of his (ex)wife.)
Anders in Awakening was funny. He had his share of misfortune - Templars hunting him for running away from the circle, being forced to turn into a Grey Warden to avoid execution - but he still managed to come across as a likeable fellow. (See where this is going?)
Anders in DA2 was sad. My mage was in a similar situation to his and she didn't pop a vein and blow up the Chantry. His merging with Justice was a plot device.

Was it completely unbelievable? No. If caught in a moment of weaknesss I can see Anders agreeing to such a move. Was it a turn-off from choosing Anders as a party member? Yes. Was I forced to do so anyway...? Yes.

If there is one DA2 character I wish I hadn't been forced to recruit it's Anders 2.0. I don't hate him... but I play games to get away from the crap going on in the real world. I don't need to be forced to do quests for a deeply disturbed individual. I'm not the kind of person who would try to "save him from himself" and being forced to watch his gradual descent into madness (how poetic that sounded ) is not fun for me.

Not everything has to be sunshine and roses and small bouncing kittens... but between Merrill's obsession with the eluvian and Anders'... issues with Vengeance... I just wanted a mage who could see the bigger picture. Bombing a house of prayer (even if that is a sign on an institution) is not "seeing the bigger picture". It's a terrorist act from an insane man and while I was impressed in the first playthrough by the shiny lights (aka big explosion) it made me quit 3 other characters before the big fight so far. What's the point? They're all gonna die (templars, mages and priests) no matter what I do so what's the use? There's no incentive to play after the moment when my actions feel pointless.

Reminds me of a low budget game based on Red Riding Hood... The Path. You play 5-6 different girls who all embody Little Red and you get to see snippets of their lives before they die. (yes they all die horribly and have messed up stuff happen to them before that) It's all very artsy and all but the only thing that makes it worth playing till the end is that the "plot" becomes clear.
...And then it's over.

Modifié par Indolence, 28 mars 2011 - 08:18 .

[lazuli]

Indolence wrote...

Not everything has to be sunshine and roses and small bouncing kittens... but between Merrill's obsession with the eluvian and Anders'... issues with Vengeance... I just wanted a mage who could see the bigger picture. Bombing a house of prayer (even if that is a sign on an institution) is not "seeing the bigger picture".

I guess we can be thankful for Bethany, the only rational NPC mage in the entire game.  A pity she's not a fully realized companion.

[Killjoy Cutter]

In DA:OA, he was quirky, a bit annoying at times, but OK.

The merge with Justice made him... into someone else entirely. Someone I can't stand.

[Killjoy Cutter]

ColdEnd wrote...

I for one think that Anders was very well done as a character.

He had deeply rooted psycological problems.. ones that in fact, came up in Awakenings... he had a deeply seated persecution complex as a result of growing up as a mage... and as a result, he also has a pathological need to seek approval and affection from others.

He constantly rages against the templars and the chantry and on the surface he rejects how they treat mages... but you'll notice, when he has conversations with Merril about becomming an abomination and spirits of the Fade, and The Maker... you can see how much of the chantry's ideas have shaped his own. So despite all his bluster; you can tell he is just covering for his own self-loathing.

If you need any more proof about how self-loathing Anders is when you meet him in DA:2, he's living in the absolute filthiest part of the city, punnishing himself. "Hiding from the Templars" or so he says... but neither Hawke nor Bethany or most all of the countless other apostates that you meet outside the circle felt the need to hide themselves in the absolute depths of Darktown.

...and he's not "hiding from the Templars" so very well; when he is compelled to become essentially a Spirit Healer and treat the sick to win approval from everyone around him.

When you think about it; it's really not even a suprise when... he takes the slightest bit of praise/freindship Hawke has to offer... and pushes it to it's absolute limit by trying to create a romance... it's also no suprise that if he isturned down as a love interest... he takes that as a rejection of his whole being.

All in all, I think this future version of Anders was a natural extention of what Anders always had the potential to become.

He's a great character, I hate to make this comparison... but he reminds me of Holden Caulfield from "Catcher in the Rye"... self absorbed, self pitying, mostly irrational... a person whom, if you met them, would make homicide justifyable (and enjoyable). I hated that book with a violent passion because of that character... and to a lesser degree, I really hate Anders.

...but to paraphrase what a previous post said; we wouldn't hate him so much if there wasn't something there, a personality, a substance to him... in order for us to hate it.

Great job Bioware (on that anyway)

As an aside, I have to say that I really like this post.  Not sure if I entirely agree with it yet, but very well done.

[Killjoy Cutter]

lazuli wrote...

Indolence wrote...

Not everything has to be sunshine and roses and small bouncing kittens... but between Merrill's obsession with the eluvian and Anders'... issues with Vengeance... I just wanted a mage who could see the bigger picture. Bombing a house of prayer (even if that is a sign on an institution) is not "seeing the bigger picture".

I guess we can be thankful for Bethany, the only rational NPC mage in the entire game.  A pity she's not a fully realized companion.

I want a mod that allows the player to choose which sibling dies, and to keep the survivor around in Acts 2 and 3.

(Too bad it might go beyond the scope of the possible to create a mod that lets you stop Anders at the Chantry.)

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 28 mars 2011 - 01:38 .

[Neleothesze]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Indolence wrote...

Not everything has to be sunshine and roses and small bouncing kittens... but between Merrill's obsession with the eluvian and Anders'... issues with Vengeance... I just wanted a mage who could see the bigger picture. Bombing a house of prayer (even if that is a sign on an institution) is not "seeing the bigger picture".

I guess we can be thankful for Bethany, the only rational NPC mage in the entire game.  A pity she's not a fully realized companion.

I want a mod that allows the player to choose which sibling dies, and to keep the survivor around in Acts 2 and 3.

(Too bad it might go beyond the scope of the possible to create a mod that lets you stop Anders at the Chantry.)

As I understand it, they wanted to add emotional depth to the choice in the end (you know, what with Carver or Bethany in the Templars or Circle or tainted) and I'm sure some dev said that even if we can choose the sibling who survives, if it's 'the wrong one' the game will still act as though he's dead. (in all conversation flags, etc)

But I think I could live with the occasional references to being an apostate even if Bethany is already in the Circle and sort of travelling around with me the way Wynne did. ...Bethany, Sebastian and Varric/Isabella. Two of them don't care (or don't like to talk) about the mage/templar situation. And the other two come from opposing ends but, with their personalities, meet smack in the middle. Perfect.

Modifié par Indolence, 28 mars 2011 - 02:37 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Anders in DA2 still has some sense of humor so you can't say that Justice has made him a new person. Fact is though - they've killed most of his sense of humor - turned him gay (when he was straight in Awakening or at least into women more and if "good" spirits of the fade do that to people, I don't think they are truly good.) and the change of voice really did destroy who he once was. Cullan experience alot in the tower but he maintained the same personality. Cullan saw his friends killed, abominations, mages turned into abominations but he came out almost the same. Anders should have been like Anders of Awakening but a bit more serious.

His sadness is not due to Justice - it's due to himself being a self pitying wussy. Vengeance is supposed to be angry - if anything, Anders should have been angry alot of the time but instead he's always sad.

I don't think this Anders was well developed - only the plot that followed him. Only his Vengeance abilities make him useful to have and he's only in my mage's party because he was friends with my human mage Warden and I'll only spare him as my mage because he was friends with my mages' distant relative but that was when he had the cat and a good sense of humor.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 28 mars 2011 - 03:21 .

[Asdara]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Anders in DA2 still has some sense of humor so you can't say that Justice has made him a new person. Fact is though - they've killed most of his sense of humor - turned him gay (when he was straight in Awakening or at least into women more and if "good" spirits of the fade do that to people, I don't think they are truly good.) and the change of voice really did destroy who he once was. Cullan experience alot in the tower but he maintained the same personality. Cullan saw his friends killed, abominations, mages turned into abominations but he came out almost the same. Anders should have been like Anders of Awakening but a bit more serious.

His sadness is not due to Justice - it's due to himself being a self pitying wussy. Vengeance is supposed to be angry - if anything, Anders should have been angry alot of the time but instead he's always sad.

I don't think this Anders was well developed - only the plot that followed him. Only his Vengeance abilities make him useful to have and he's only in my mage's party because he was friends with my human mage Warden and I'll only spare him as my mage because he was friends with my mages' distant relative.

I was a tad bit disappointed to see Cullen so mentally stable after his obvious breakdown in the Ferelden Circle.  If anything, he should have been the maniac ready to bring down the Rite of Annulment at the first provocation.  I would love to hear why the story writers decided to basically "reset" him.  I know game decisions didn't carry over well (at all) and I had since deleted my characters from DAO accidentally (long story) so that's as may be, but I had a devout Circle mage who did condemn the Ferelden Circle after witnessing the horrors there, and Cullen was a large part of why she came to do so.  Obviously, he got over it.  Nice for him.

I think there is entirely too much being made of Anders (or any of the characters) being available to both sexes.  It isn't a personality change in one character; it is the manifestation of a policy that EA and Bioware have embarked on with the writers to make Romance options more universally available to a wider player base.  While I acknowledge that Awakenings had him talking about "a pretty girl" in chatter comments he is also very clear about the Circle in Ferelden being somewhat of a free-for-all when it came to casual physical encounters - not wanting relationships that would produce children (as Wynne explains) that would be taken away immediately or give the Templars leverage to further curtail them.  The fact is, the confiscation of children produced by any heterosexual encounter as a standing fear would probably lead to greater homosexual couplings within any Circle, merely to avoid the gut-wrenching unpleasantness of facing a childless extended relationship.  That's taking the analysis a bit far perhaps, but there it is.

I also think you are confusing sadness with exhaustion.  Anders works every available minute in his clinic, driven by Justice to do right for the people who are suffering in a manic and self-destructive way - we can see that in our first encounter with him where he is obviously overextending himself in the healing of a young boy.  When he's not doing that, he's with you - also overexerting himself.  Finally, in his "free" time, he has to contain the boundless enthusiasm of Justice for Vengeance; that alone must be incredibly taxing on his interior resources.  So, when he walks around sighing a lot and has only the energy to get riled up when his cause is involved, it isn't so much him being a "wussy" as him being a man holding on a very thin thread of stability that is fraying while he uses all his effort to cling to it.  Is it a wonder he might come off as "sad"?

[Maria Caliban]

I did find him interesting in Awakening. I didn't find him interesting and never used him in DA 2. Then he pops up at the end to blow up a building.

I think of him less as a companion and more as a walking theme and plot dispenser.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Indolence wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Indolence wrote...

Not everything has to be sunshine and roses and small bouncing kittens... but between Merrill's obsession with the eluvian and Anders'... issues with Vengeance... I just wanted a mage who could see the bigger picture. Bombing a house of prayer (even if that is a sign on an institution) is not "seeing the bigger picture".

I guess we can be thankful for Bethany, the only rational NPC mage in the entire game.  A pity she's not a fully realized companion.

I want a mod that allows the player to choose which sibling dies, and to keep the survivor around in Acts 2 and 3.

(Too bad it might go beyond the scope of the possible to create a mod that lets you stop Anders at the Chantry.)

As I understand it, they wanted to add emotional depth to the choice in the end (you know, what with Carver or Bethany in the Templars or Circle or tainted) and I'm sure some dev said that even if we can choose the sibling who survives, if it's 'the wrong one' the game will still act as though he's dead. (in all conversation flags, etc)

But I think I could live with the occasional references to being an apostate even if Bethany is already in the Circle and sort of travelling around with me the way Wynne did. ...Bethany, Sebastian and Varric/Isabella. Two of them don't care (or don't like to talk) about the mage/templar situation. And the other two come from opposing ends but, with their personalities, meet smack in the middle. Perfect.

So it seems that perhaps the code is checking against what kind of Hawke you have over and over, and not who is listed in the party, when it sets up the dialogue, etc, regarding the surviving sibling.  Shame, that.  If it were checking for which sibling,  it would make a lot more sense. 

[Brockololly]

I think the problem with Anders in DA2 is that from the start he's not the Anders you last met in Awakening. I liked Anders a lot in Awakening. I find him boring and a stick in the mud in DA2.

Combined with the totally different voice actor and the Justice thing already having happened, he may as well be a different character in DA2.

I'm fine with him becoming a mage terrorist by the end game, but I think the transition from Awakening Anders to Terrorist Anders should have been handled more visibly to the player. So since the merging with Justice is the big huge catalyst for his change, that should have taken place in DA2- so maybe we see him as normal Awakening Anders in Act 1 (maybe with Justice as a separate entity), he merges with Justice at the end of Act 1, and you can see him more fully develop into Terrorist Anders from there.

[TheRealJayDee]

If they changed the VA because of the bigger part Cullen got in this game - well, it'd be damn stupid imo to not give Cullen a new voice instead. Cullen was a minor NPC in DA:O and is a supporting character at best in DA2. Anders was a companion in Awakening and is argueably one the five most important characters in DA2, if not the single most important. Who in their right mind would hesitate even a second as to who should keep his VA? Besides, why not let Ellis do both? There seem to be lots of cases in which one VA did more than one character.

I have never brought not-Anders along with any of my Hawkes, and probably never will. Which sucks, as his story does have a lot of potential...

[Killjoy Cutter]

Asdara wrote...

I think there is entirely too much being made of Anders (or any of the characters) being available to both sexes.  It isn't a personality change in one character; it is the manifestation of a policy that EA and Bioware have embarked on with the writers to make Romance options more universally available to a wider player base.  

Meh.  I'm never in favor of changing characters to cater to the fans. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I did find him interesting in Awakening. I didn't find him interesting and never used him in DA 2. Then he pops up at the end to blow up a building.

I think of him less as a companion and more as a walking theme and plot dispenser.

He does seem written to be convenient to the desired plot, player romance preferences, etc, as opposed to as an actual character.   Or maybe I'm just associating him with the railroad he's central too in the game.  Meh.  Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if we'd been given a chance to stop him.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 28 mars 2011 - 03:52 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Asdara wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Anders in DA2 still has some sense of humor so you can't say that Justice has made him a new person. Fact is though - they've killed most of his sense of humor - turned him gay (when he was straight in Awakening or at least into women more and if "good" spirits of the fade do that to people, I don't think they are truly good.) and the change of voice really did destroy who he once was. Cullan experience alot in the tower but he maintained the same personality. Cullan saw his friends killed, abominations, mages turned into abominations but he came out almost the same. Anders should have been like Anders of Awakening but a bit more serious.

His sadness is not due to Justice - it's due to himself being a self pitying wussy. Vengeance is supposed to be angry - if anything, Anders should have been angry alot of the time but instead he's always sad.

I don't think this Anders was well developed - only the plot that followed him. Only his Vengeance abilities make him useful to have and he's only in my mage's party because he was friends with my human mage Warden and I'll only spare him as my mage because he was friends with my mages' distant relative.

I was a tad bit disappointed to see Cullen so mentally stable after his obvious breakdown in the Ferelden Circle.  If anything, he should have been the maniac ready to bring down the Rite of Annulment at the first provocation.  I would love to hear why the story writers decided to basically "reset" him.  I know game decisions didn't carry over well (at all) and I had since deleted my characters from DAO accidentally (long story) so that's as may be, but I had a devout Circle mage who did condemn the Ferelden Circle after witnessing the horrors there, and Cullen was a large part of why she came to do so.  Obviously, he got over it.  Nice for him.

I think there is entirely too much being made of Anders (or any of the characters) being available to both sexes.  It isn't a personality change in one character; it is the manifestation of a policy that EA and Bioware have embarked on with the writers to make Romance options more universally available to a wider player base.  While I acknowledge that Awakenings had him talking about "a pretty girl" in chatter comments he is also very clear about the Circle in Ferelden being somewhat of a free-for-all when it came to casual physical encounters - not wanting relationships that would produce children (as Wynne explains) that would be taken away immediately or give the Templars leverage to further curtail them.  The fact is, the confiscation of children produced by any heterosexual encounter as a standing fear would probably lead to greater homosexual couplings within any Circle, merely to avoid the gut-wrenching unpleasantness of facing a childless extended relationship.  That's taking the analysis a bit far perhaps, but there it is.

I also think you are confusing sadness with exhaustion.  Anders works every available minute in his clinic, driven by Justice to do right for the people who are suffering in a manic and self-destructive way - we can see that in our first encounter with him where he is obviously overextending himself in the healing of a young boy.  When he's not doing that, he's with you - also overexerting himself.  Finally, in his "free" time, he has to contain the boundless enthusiasm of Justice for Vengeance; that alone must be incredibly taxing on his interior resources.  So, when he walks around sighing a lot and has only the energy to get riled up when his cause is involved, it isn't so much him being a "wussy" as him being a man holding on a very thin thread of stability that is fraying while he uses all his effort to cling to it.  Is it a wonder he might come off as "sad"?

Well, man and woman can have sexual relations without producing children. I think you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, you say they reset Cullan, I'd say they reset Anders. The last part is understandable but you'd think that the spirit that is always in him would have taken over in many events. Like when he came marching up to the Knight Commander. He seemed angry then. There's so much more they could have done with him and the spirit.

[Asdara]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Asdara wrote...

I think there is entirely too much being made of Anders (or any of the characters) being available to both sexes.  It isn't a personality change in one character; it is the manifestation of a policy that EA and Bioware have embarked on with the writers to make Romance options more universally available to a wider player base.  

Meh.  I'm never in favor of changing characters to cater to the fans. 

We weren't able to romance Anders in Awakenings, something most people hated as I recall.  It was never established that he was a guy only or girl only type of person, and the one quoted piece about him wanting to settle down with a nice girl does not exclude the possibility of having relationships with the same sex.  Bottom line is: it wasn't established, it is an assumption the players made off limited information which has now been contradicted by those who wrote him.  We don't have to like it, but saying he was "changed" is not completely accurate - our understanding of him has been changed, but he could have been swinging the barn door both ways all along for all we ever knew.  I don't think it is a big personality change - he always presented himself as being very open to pleasurable things whatever their origin.

[Asdara]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Asdara wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Anders in DA2 still has some sense of humor so you can't say that Justice has made him a new person. Fact is though - they've killed most of his sense of humor - turned him gay (when he was straight in Awakening or at least into women more and if "good" spirits of the fade do that to people, I don't think they are truly good.) and the change of voice really did destroy who he once was. Cullan experience alot in the tower but he maintained the same personality. Cullan saw his friends killed, abominations, mages turned into abominations but he came out almost the same. Anders should have been like Anders of Awakening but a bit more serious.

His sadness is not due to Justice - it's due to himself being a self pitying wussy. Vengeance is supposed to be angry - if anything, Anders should have been angry alot of the time but instead he's always sad.

I don't think this Anders was well developed - only the plot that followed him. Only his Vengeance abilities make him useful to have and he's only in my mage's party because he was friends with my human mage Warden and I'll only spare him as my mage because he was friends with my mages' distant relative.

I was a tad bit disappointed to see Cullen so mentally stable after his obvious breakdown in the Ferelden Circle.  If anything, he should have been the maniac ready to bring down the Rite of Annulment at the first provocation.  I would love to hear why the story writers decided to basically "reset" him.  I know game decisions didn't carry over well (at all) and I had since deleted my characters from DAO accidentally (long story) so that's as may be, but I had a devout Circle mage who did condemn the Ferelden Circle after witnessing the horrors there, and Cullen was a large part of why she came to do so.  Obviously, he got over it.  Nice for him.

I think there is entirely too much being made of Anders (or any of the characters) being available to both sexes.  It isn't a personality change in one character; it is the manifestation of a policy that EA and Bioware have embarked on with the writers to make Romance options more universally available to a wider player base.  While I acknowledge that Awakenings had him talking about "a pretty girl" in chatter comments he is also very clear about the Circle in Ferelden being somewhat of a free-for-all when it came to casual physical encounters - not wanting relationships that would produce children (as Wynne explains) that would be taken away immediately or give the Templars leverage to further curtail them.  The fact is, the confiscation of children produced by any heterosexual encounter as a standing fear would probably lead to greater homosexual couplings within any Circle, merely to avoid the gut-wrenching unpleasantness of facing a childless extended relationship.  That's taking the analysis a bit far perhaps, but there it is.

I also think you are confusing sadness with exhaustion.  Anders works every available minute in his clinic, driven by Justice to do right for the people who are suffering in a manic and self-destructive way - we can see that in our first encounter with him where he is obviously overextending himself in the healing of a young boy.  When he's not doing that, he's with you - also overexerting himself.  Finally, in his "free" time, he has to contain the boundless enthusiasm of Justice for Vengeance; that alone must be incredibly taxing on his interior resources.  So, when he walks around sighing a lot and has only the energy to get riled up when his cause is involved, it isn't so much him being a "wussy" as him being a man holding on a very thin thread of stability that is fraying while he uses all his effort to cling to it.  Is it a wonder he might come off as "sad"?

Well, man and woman can have sexual relations without producing children. I think you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, you say they reset Cullan, I'd say they reset Anders. The last part is understandable but you'd think that the spirit that is always in him would have taken over in many events. Like when he came marching up to the Knight Commander. He seemed angry then. There's so much more they could have done with him and the spirit.

I firmly agree with you on that point: we should have seen more Justice/Vengeance to have been given a more accurate picture of Anders as a whole character in this game.  I've been talking about Anders all over this board and have said as much elsewhere - he's a very popular topic of conversation - can't remember if it was in this thread or not.  

As for the children thing, yes we have it (again from Wynne) that there are plenty of ways not to have babies, but people do sometimes anyway.  Fear of having that taken away is unfathomable to most people I think, and we should all hope it stays that way.  The Circle probably has its own sexual culture that may or may not even recognize what our culture has deemed homosexuality or heterosexuality - we bring our understanding with us as players, but there's no basis to say that our understanding of the world would be commonplace in Thedas.  Just saying.  

[cleosilver]

Brockololly wrote...

I think the problem with Anders in DA2 is that from the start he's not the Anders you last met in Awakening. I liked Anders a lot in Awakening. I find him boring and a stick in the mud in DA2.

Combined with the totally different voice actor and the Justice thing already having happened, he may as well be a different character in DA2.

I'm fine with him becoming a mage terrorist by the end game, but I think the transition from Awakening Anders to Terrorist Anders should have been handled more visibly to the player. So since the merging with Justice is the big huge catalyst for his change, that should have taken place in DA2- so maybe we see him as normal Awakening Anders in Act 1 (maybe with Justice as a separate entity), he merges with Justice at the end of Act 1, and you can see him more fully develop into Terrorist Anders from there.

I like this idea. Especially if the merge was tied in to Hawke's actions in some way.  It would add weight to the Hawke being the catalyst for the events Cassandra goes on about

[Dussan2]

Anders is completely in character within Dragon Age 2. In Awakening he was a Circle mage on the run, turned Apostate. He becomes a Gray Warden to escape the Templars and his eventual Trainquility. Throughout Awakening you understand that Anders did not like what the Circle stood for, and the plight of mages. Clear cut.

Now fast forward a year or so, he is now fused with Justice, and within him is no longer fear of the Circle and the templars. Its anger at what it has turned him and others like him into. He doesn't blame templars for mages turning malifacarum. He blames the mage. From the outset he is pushing for the entire system to be undone.

My first playthrough I was a mage, and I killed Anders but we were friends. I also liked the Elythina and killed Anders out of some strange misguided sense of justice.

I'm playing as a rogue now and being a badass mage murderer, but my next warrior role through I'm going to push the pro-mage agenda to it's finality.