22 réponses à ce sujet

[Brood]

Have any of you managed to clear the game on nightmare without a spirit healer/anders? I am on act 1 level 8 and my Hyper-offensive party is doing rather well, often not even needing to use potions before we clear a group of enemies.

I just hate using spirit healing and having Anders in my party, just to sit there with panacea on supporting the party; it is so boring and I'd rather have Merill and Varric because they both kickass. And to me, Anders having no Entropy tree = FTL

[Malevolence65]

If you buy plenty of Mythal's Favor you would be fine.

[Att3r0]

you gonna drink elfroot like water ><.
Its quite sad that Marrill dont have creation tree :[

[Bratinov]

I can't see it working without a healer...
I had 2 (Anders as the main healer and my Mage healing/resurrecting in emergencies)

Modifié par Bratinov, 27 mars 2011 - 06:01 .

[Brood]

my biggest concern at this point is that my party can't have heroic aura

[nicodeemus327]

Sadly the creation tree is just too awesome.

[Stinkface27]

If people can do it solo, I'm sure you can do it with this party. Definitely will be a struggled and I'm sure you'll be doing a lot of kiting and chugging potions. And don't forget outstanding tactics. With a team like this, your strength will be focusing something and blasting it, so if you have companions not targeting your target, not taking advantage of Disorients/Brittles/Staggers, then you'll be losing your advantage.

Good luck! Keep us updated!

[Stinkface27]

Sorry to double post, just a quick note - there are mods that unlock all trees for all companions, so you could potentially have Merrill with the healing tree if you are so inclined.

[Brood]

oh haha wow. I'm not too much of a tactics person I actually somewhat enjoy micromanaging each character every second of the fight. but my tactics are fine for whenever I decide to go autopilot on easier encounters. I've jst defeated the wraith at the end of act 1 so I am fairly sure the party will manage, and the party is able to take out lieutenants and boss very quickly in normal encounters (can't wait til I get upgraded assassinate for brittle bonus) The wraith fight was struggled though and required constant repositioning of my ranged units and kiting of whoever was being chased.

[FFLB]

It should be fine, and besides, you can always throw Anders back in if you feel that you need more healing. I also preferred Merrill because her setup was more offensive-minded than what I had for Anders.

I never noticed that Anders didn't have Entropy or that Merrill didn't have Creation though.

[Stranglebat]

Brood wrote...

oh haha wow. I'm not too much of a tactics person I actually somewhat enjoy micromanaging each character every second of the fight. but my tactics are fine for whenever I decide to go autopilot on easier encounters. I've jst defeated the wraith at the end of act 1 so I am fairly sure the party will manage, and the party is able to take out lieutenants and boss very quickly in normal encounters (can't wait til I get upgraded assassinate for brittle bonus) The wraith fight was struggled though and required constant repositioning of my ranged units and kiting of whoever was being chased.

So by your own admission your tactics are only "fine" for "easy" encounters, sounds like they could use some work. Difficulty for micro managing and tactics is the same its not like micro is for skilled players only. The wraith fight is not a good judge of wheather your party is good enough or not (though completion of act 1 as a whole may be), as it is rather easy to dodge pretty much all of its damage and pots/cooldowns are enough for the unavoidable damage. The real test will be on some of the harder side quest fights in act 2/3 that desire demon at the end of the evil tomes quest maybe. 

Modifié par Stranglebat, 29 mars 2011 - 10:31 .

[Tomomi]

Brood wrote...

Have any of you managed to clear the game on nightmare without a spirit healer/anders? I am on act 1 level 8 and my Hyper-offensive party is doing rather well, often not even needing to use potions before we clear a group of enemies.

I just hate using spirit healing and having Anders in my party, just to sit there with panacea on supporting the party; it is so boring and I'd rather have Merill and Varric because they both kickass. And to me, Anders having no Entropy tree = FTL

You are doing well on Nightmare at level 8 without healer?  I can't remember how far it is at level 8 in Act 1.  But I assume your skill level is high enough to face Nightmare mode, I am not going to bore you with things you should already know in regard to tactical engagement.  Just remember in Nightmare mode, mobs have very high HP and good resistance, along with the infamous knock-lock that you may have already experienced.  So 4 dps party may not be that great because you cannot effectively CC certain mobs long enough for you to focus take down.  If you have dealt with human enemies so far, it may have been easier.  Fenris can plow through them.  But there are times you will face a good number of advanced mobs that are immune to a lot of knock-back, and have high HP, spawn all over a small room, making kiting very hard.  I know your archer would be very powerful, but doubtful you will get to stand in 1 spot to shoot for too long without being sucked into a kite fest.

Completely no heal is bad.  It is not that you can even drink potions like water.  The cooldown of potions are rather long that you would get killed in between.  Here is my latest problem: in act 2 you will encounter a lot of rogues who love to vanish and backstab you that likely take 1/2 HP off your tank, even.  The problem is that they seem to be able to stealth/backstab every 10 seconds or so.  Drove me nuts.  And just because they are rogues does not mean they are squishy.  They have a very long HP bar, and they can drink potions, and sometimes can stealth right before your combo hits, waste the spell CD, and they didn't take damage.  Even Merrill can't heal, I make her to cast Barrier that would give immunity for a few seconds if upgraded.

The good thing is you can try for yourself and change spec or companion if needed.  Companions level with you even you never take them out, so it offers a lot of options.

[Jman5]

I would say to make it easier, Merril and Varric should grab misdirection and Fatiguing fog by the time you reach Ancient Rock Wraith. Also there is a poison that reduces attack and movement speed. I would grab that for yourself.

Oh, and that rock armor potion on avaline will help in tough fights.

Modifié par Jman5, 29 mars 2011 - 02:43 .

[RederickEQ]

I totally agree with Tomomi on enemy rogues using stealth and then backstabbing you.

Does the effect of taunt go away when the enemy's disappear?

[Joy Divison]

Yes. I went through the entire game with no healer and taking Anders along only on his quests. It is the more expensive option as you will have to brew more potions (and be sure always to have a Mythral's Favor).

What's your Hawke? If it's a rogue, just assassinate enemy rogues which appear. If it's a warrior, you'll kill the mobs fast enough to focus fire on any enemy rogue

Edit: you're an archer?  You still should get assassinate, it >>> archer's lance

Modifié par Joy Divison, 29 mars 2011 - 05:05 .

[x-president]

I am doing that party setup right now on nightmare.  Except I'm a mage.

Me (Blood Mage when I get it)
Merril (Blood Mage)
Varric
Aveline


I'm around lvl 7 maybe lvl 8 atm.  I gotta say it's really not all that bad.  I'm not even taking that many potions.  It's all depends on your party builds as well as knowing what battles are coming.  It really is not that hard to survive without heals.  I don't think I've taken any lyrium potions and barely any stamina potions. 

Aveline is the only one that takes most of the health potions, but not even that much.  You have to use CCCs when possible and micromanage.

I'm not using any Blood Magic currently because I am just not setup for it yet.

[Tomomi]

Joy Divison wrote...

Yes. I went through the entire game with no healer and taking Anders along only on his quests. It is the more expensive option as you will have to brew more potions (and be sure always to have a Mythral's Favor).

What's your Hawke? If it's a rogue, just assassinate enemy rogues which appear. If it's a warrior, you'll kill the mobs fast enough to focus fire on any enemy rogue

Edit: you're an archer?  You still should get assassinate, it >>> archer's lance

Is this on Nightmare mode?  I would love to know how.  The only way to go through Nightmare mode with relative ease is via 2h warrior which I am doing right now.  Very good against knock-back (I gave the knock-back immune ring to Anders).  Whenever I play Isabella, she dies way too fast.  There is just nothing to protect her when archers rain down at her.  So you have a rogue Hawke and got through Nightmare without a healer.  That is amazing.

[Brood]

I never said anywhere I was using archer tree and I am in fact using the assassin tree. And yea enemy assassins are my greatest problem. For fights I am not familiar with, I have to save before and load/try again sometimes (success all depends on killing the assassin(s) quickly which my party excels at) and it is fun that way as the fights are really challenging. My party has tactics to deal with enemy archers which can gang-rape anyone to death except for aveline. Whenever possible for any fight, I will move to the best possible location (like a narrow corridor as opposed to the middle of a giant room where enemies spawn) and force the enemies to come to my party; this solves the problem of enemy archers as my 2 archers easily out-range them in a ranged fight while Aveline holds the front lines against melee'rs trying to rush in. Mages are the most satisfying to kill because between my rogue and Varric they go down more than easily, and enemy archers when shot at are almost always knocked over and defeated in only a few shots anyways. Because it is a fully-offensive party, the answer lies in just having everyone in the party carefully manage their own section of the battle rather than the traditional tank, support and heal archetype. And the party is even better now that I have Assassinate with it's 400% brittle damage upgrade.

Modifié par Brood, 30 mars 2011 - 09:57 .

[Tomomi]

In my game of semi traditional setup, with 2h warrior as tank/main dps while Anders and 2 others are pure support. Usually I bring out Anders and Merrill both equipped with upgraded Chain Lightning for opportune combo, and also Barrier on both while honestly Hawke did most of the killing.

Now I am not too afraid of archers, unless I have Isabella. It is not so easy to keep all archers off her, while it may only take 1-2 archers to implicate her. But I can see why your setup works so well because you are an archer rogue. Let's not talk about normal encounters, but how about those encounters with 3-4 heavy units, like Rage demon, rock golem, or 2-3 rogues. I find it rather hard to deal with them if without a healer/raiser. You can not just easily take down a Rage demon fast enough when 2 more are rushing you down (this happened a lot in Act 2, especially in Bounty Hunter, or Abandoned Thaig). These heavy mobs are immune to knock-back, and take forever to die (at least 3-4 combo to kill one). And this one time fighting against Ser Alrik, he has 2 rogues with him. The location is tiny for any good kiting. It is almost impossible to lock down 1 rogue along enough to kill them, even to assume you have 3 combos ready. Oftentimes, they just to a roll back, kick you off, and vanish, and your combo will go into thin air. They appear again to backstab someone for 100+ HP, and they will keep doing this every 10 seconds while your combo or CC aren't even ready for another 20-30 seconds. Aveline's Taunt is not always up, along with her Stoneskin, and there is no way to know for sure who they will backstab. And distance kiting is out of the question.

That is something I wonder how you really deal with without a healer. In a way, I really hope they nerf that Vanish-backstab trick of enemy's rogue every 10 seconds (yes I did count the time).

[Joy Divison]

Tomomi wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

Yes. I went through the entire game with no healer and taking Anders along only on his quests. It is the more expensive option as you will have to brew more potions (and be sure always to have a Mythral's Favor).

What's your Hawke? If it's a rogue, just assassinate enemy rogues which appear. If it's a warrior, you'll kill the mobs fast enough to focus fire on any enemy rogue

Edit: you're an archer?  You still should get assassinate, it >>> archer's lance

Is this on Nightmare mode?  I would love to know how.  The only way to go through Nightmare mode with relative ease is via 2h warrior which I am doing right now.  Very good against knock-back (I gave the knock-back immune ring to Anders).  Whenever I play Isabella, she dies way too fast.  There is just nothing to protect her when archers rain down at her.  So you have a rogue Hawke and got through Nightmare without a healer.  That is amazing.

Yes.  I did it w/ mage Hawke.  It was definitely more expensive and it took a lot of pausing, but as long as Mage Hawke has the upgraded chain lightning and hemmorhage, Aveline and Fenris can stagger whole mobs on demand and then you can dispatch them.  I have yet to find a way to keep Isabella upright healer or no, though her "all hands on deck" power and explosive strike are very good if you micro her.  Just be prepared to use an injury kit afterward (and be sure never to buy one).

My gut feeling is that Rogue Hawke would be easier bc/ assassins were definitely the biggest problem I ran without Anders and assassinate wipes them out rather nicely and even a automated Merrill is an excellent companion.  Shadow Rogue Hawke very rarely should be targetted by archers.

I wouldn't call my no-Anders run amazing, I'd call it expensive and micro-management intensive.  I really don't like him...and this was before I found out what he does at the end.

[ForgotZen]

I was able to do the majority of nightmare without anders, however my main was a 2H Hawke. I cannot stress the importance of moving your entire party back 50-100yards around at least one corner on almost every fight. It is critical to NEVER fight in a room where mobs spawn unless absolutely necessary.

The key things for my run are to go Reaver (so your low health is a benefit) and be Vanguard. This will allow you to hit for 4000 - 6000 and force stagger. If you have Merrill horror the assassin immediately, you can stagger, then double chain lightning and explosive shot to instantly kill any assassin in the game.

With this comp I was able to one shot the high dragon and nexus golem gauntlet, however the rock wraith fight took me almost 90 minutes to win with no deaths.

Edit:  This comp really needs micro management, and I would recommend reomving all tactics.  To be successful, you really need to control every global.  Then again, you could kite like most people do, but it just defeats the whol epoint of playing on nightmare if you are just running from eveyrthing.

Modifié par ForgotZen, 02 avril 2011 - 02:51 .

[Brood]

Just defeated the brekker fight (the one with 4 assassins) in only 2 tries, and on the first try I wasn't trying that hard. My Aveline with 50% damage resistance, and immovable and shield defense was only taking about 20% damage from elite assassin stealth attacks. So simply having her only heal herself with potions is more than enough. And I make the 3 range units run away so they are far from the fight, and make them all focus one assassin at a time, while Varric helps manage threat nicely with scoundrel tree.

[naughty99]

It would be a lot easier with Anders (2 mages) instead of Varric, but you should be able to get through it with the party you have listed above.

In general I've found that when playing a Rogue, rolling with 2 offensive mages (with Primal and Elemental CCC spells) in the party gives me double the opportunities to set up really high Assassinate combos on brittled and debuffed enemies.