63 réponses à ce sujet

[Woodstock-TC]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

at first I loved the quest.
Then, after thinking about how Hawke finds out 4 times prior to ATR that white lilies are sent to women who vanish, he doesn't even think to investigate, I became irked. Hell he doesn't even bother to tell his mother there's a killer running loose after he does Prime Suspect?

I still love the emotional impact of this quest, but also have some issues wiht it (no biggie but still)
1) when entering the foundry for the first time (Ninette) i glimpse the killer. Of course we dont know yet that thats the guy, but we dont even think about running after some guy which obviously tries to get away. / well ok could live with that, obviously you know better afterwards.. but what next
2) i have the captain of the guard as friend, know gascard is connected (by chaseing the killer), the killer even kills that hobby constable templar, yet we dont put gascard under surveilance.. well ok, guess scotland yard was invented on another planet but still.. the chances that he would lead to the killer, or the killer would find him for interfering wiht his biz would have been high.

now comes the part that really anoys me
3) leandra got white lillies disappeard and we think about what to do. BHODAN (yes, no joke) suggest waiting for the night before searching because its less crowded, and apparently everyone is fine wiht this suggestion. no what ?
i mena just imagine in Real life the situation for once. would you have waited in your house drinking tea and waiting for the night ?? no way ever. even if totally pointless (which i doubt) we would have spread out and searched everyhwere.

minor thing:
when its revealed that Orsino had knoweledge about the murders i can have much less options to act/say than suitable. i mean imagine the situation again.. that guy just said.. what?

well still one of the deepest things in the game with well minor flaws.. =)

greets,
wood

[bdcgvshujvgjvgsdjjgvsd]

"It was simply sensational writing. " - Yep, I always rated Mary Shelley.

[Sister Helen]

The mother's death and the Champion's reaction to it was powerful and heartbreaking.

What is so superb about Bioware, though, is not that scene but that the developers didn't neglect acknowleging that the mother had an impact on people other than the Champion. 

Instead of the Champion dusting off his hands and going onto the next quest - "that's done, on to opening up random crates again!" and acting as though it never happened - the developers/level creators wrote in additional dialogue and scenes that recognized that your mother had impact on the gameworld beyond you.  That her death affected other people besides yourself, and that death was recognized as a terrible thing.  Even Meredith brings up the death as a terrible thing --- and she is not your friend.

Telling Gamlen that his sister is dead, talking to your love interest afterward, and having your companions and servants react to the mother's death, were all scenes that from the standpoint of "gameplay" were unnecessary, but felt ... right.  Thank you Bioware.

[Augustei]

dchesnes wrote...

The story of this game isn't talked about much, good or bad.  Most of the attenention it gets are for trivialities like whether Hawk should be voiced or not.  But my jaw literally dropped at the end of the "All that Remains" quest.  I was floored.  It was simply sensational writing.  I have played computer RPG's since Ultima 4, and that scene just blew me away.  The foreshadowing from the earlier quest and trhe creepy letters you find, the way it was personal yet played into the larger themes of the game...just WOW!  It deserves to be mentioned whenever the great moments in video games are debated.

When i've moved on from Dragon Age 2, playing whatever comes down the pipe, I think that's what I'm going to remember about this game.  I won't care about whether the dialogue wheel used pictures or which NPC's my Hawk could or could not sleep with.  I will remember hunting for mom, truly caring about whether she lived or died, and having my jaw hit the floor when I found the truth.

Thank you bioware.  That moment alone made this game worth my time.

That moment alone made me begin to think thiat quest was stupid, I mean the hunting for mom was immersive and everything but as soon as she stood up and turned around I thought ".... This is stupid" immersion instantly broken and no real sadness was felt for frakenmom.. More disgust.. at how terribad it was

But thats just my opinion

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 10 mai 2011 - 11:16 .

[True Zarken]

Did anyone else think of the Band and not the quest when they saw this or was it just me?

[TEWR]

Woodstock-TC wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

at first I loved the quest.
Then, after thinking about how Hawke finds out 4 times prior to ATR that white lilies are sent to women who vanish, he doesn't even think to investigate, I became irked. Hell he doesn't even bother to tell his mother there's a killer running loose after he does Prime Suspect?

I still love the emotional impact of this quest, but also have some issues wiht it (no biggie but still)
1) when entering the foundry for the first time (Ninette) i glimpse the killer. Of course we dont know yet that thats the guy, but we dont even think about running after some guy which obviously tries to get away. / well ok could live with that, obviously you know better afterwards.. but what next
2) i have the captain of the guard as friend, know gascard is connected (by chaseing the killer), the killer even kills that hobby constable templar, yet we dont put gascard under surveilance.. well ok, guess scotland yard was invented on another planet but still.. the chances that he would lead to the killer, or the killer would find him for interfering wiht his biz would have been high.

now comes the part that really anoys me
3) leandra got white lillies disappeard and we think about what to do. BHODAN (yes, no joke) suggest waiting for the night before searching because its less crowded, and apparently everyone is fine wiht this suggestion. no what ?
i mena just imagine in Real life the situation for once. would you have waited in your house drinking tea and waiting for the night ?? no way ever. even if totally pointless (which i doubt) we would have spread out and searched everyhwere.

minor thing:
when its revealed that Orsino had knoweledge about the murders i can have much less options to act/say than suitable. i mean imagine the situation again.. that guy just said.. what?

well still one of the deepest things in the game with well minor flaws.. =)

greets,
wood

It is always emotional to me. My gut always twists itself in knots when she turns around, but I do have a few issues with it. I love the quest itself but I'm always befuddled by a few things. But I can overlook the issues and flaws and appreciate what was given, especially when Hawke told Uncle Gamlen about it and whoever you romance comes in to console you. That was just amazing on the part of Bioware.

[Xilizhra]

Even Meredith brings up the death as a terrible thing --- and she is not your friend.

She only does that to propagandize against mages.

[MG800]

Xilizhra wrote...

Even Meredith brings up the death as a terrible thing --- and she is not your friend.

She only does that to propagandize against mages.

Using your mother as a resource for a political victory. Then, she manipulates you into helping her. 
She does have a brain - shame, she's rarely using it around us.

Modifié par MG800, 10 mai 2011 - 12:32 .

[Woodstock-TC]

Rockworm503 wrote...

That was the high point for me too up there with the Qunari storyline. I was roleplaying as someone who was all devoted to mom from the start. Her entire motivation was to help her and then she's gone.

rockwork, even if you select the witty option he just remains "in character", (also didnt understood that first as its a little different from past games (of course there are also exceptions when its about choice of actions)) it doesnt mean she is really joking. Selecting this option if playing witty hawke is one of the most touching and (mask and defensive mechanism) revealing things in the game and unbelivable good scripted for a game. Just stay in char.
I play femhawke which is fantastic even in these tries to still keep moral up somehow, but i read in this thread that also malehawkes performance in these situations is up on pair. just try it. you need no "sad" option, as you are following a character. if you select something else, its often "out of character" and ppl understands it as false (try it with LI as example)

btw talking about in character and family, although some criticize that
the whole family development is too rushed, there are fantastic details
to make up for it. (of course more would have been great, but if you
keep an eye open you notice how much love Bioware placed into it)

=>
upon their arrival in lowtown, lets have as exmple a rogue femhawke and
Bethany storm the family estate for the last will. after they present  the will to Gamlen, you have the option afterwards to discuss with  Bethany (and tease her while she is elaborating seriously on the latest results). If you chose to tease her, the mimic of the whole  dialogue, "youre such a ratch!" voice over (in this case by Jo Wyatt') and  the camera work
(zoom in) is totally priceless and masterfully executed.  The characters are drawn virtously and the whole scene is that authentic like watching your brother/sister act in real life.  Kudos.

Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 10 mai 2011 - 05:35 .

[Rifneno]

MG800 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Even Meredith brings up the death as a terrible thing --- and she is not your friend.

She only does that to propagandize against mages.

Using your mother as a resource for a political victory. Then, she manipulates you into helping her. 
She does have a brain - shame, she's rarely using it around us.

Of course she has a brain.  All her paranoid delusions need to have a place to call home, right?

[Tempest_]

I'm kind of torn on this.

On one hand, I do like the idea but as it has been said already, it wasn't done brilliantly. I think whether or not you chose to kill Gascard should have determined whether Leandra lived or died or something like this.

[Ottemis]

Rockworm503 wrote...

All the miserable things that happen around Hawke I really wish there was a sad option on the wheel. Nothing bugs me more than my whole family dying and Hawke acting like its no big deal.

The reaction kind of reminded me of Zoe after what happened to Wade (Firefly - Serenity) initially.
Alot of people would be of the opinion she was heartless, but then different people deal differently.
Asmuch as we 'control' part of Hawke, for others we don't and there's alot we don't get to see. I reckon it either appeals to you or it doesn't.

Quote the Raven wrote...

On one hand, I do like the idea but as it has been said already, it wasn't done brilliantly. I think whether or not you chose to kill Gascard should have determined whether Leandra lived or died or something like this.

I liked the questline alot (obviously, it was horrible, but you get the idea). Nice example of this being a group of people stuff just happens to, bad karma, call it what you want. And most these things, when life kicks you in the groin, it's horrible, dirty and much worse then most people imagine could ever happen to them. The feeling of helplessness has a big part in it, if you would have been able to stop it from happening, what would have been the point? Hawke didn't need a godcomplex, we got reminded of his/her humanity instead.

And yes, with brother/sister away, and uncle being pretty much a tool, most of the 'pressure' falls directly on Hawke, being the grownup and not falling apart on some level. 

Nicely done in my book.

Modifié par Ottemis, 10 mai 2011 - 07:29 .

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Didn't really affect me because from the opening of the game it was indicated your family was disposable. By the time I reached zombie mom I was like, "Welp, now I don't need to stay in Kirkwall anymore."

[Sanguinerin]

XxDeonxX wrote...

That moment alone made me begin to think thiat quest was stupid, I mean the hunting for mom was immersive and everything but as soon as she stood up and turned around I thought ".... This is stupid" immersion instantly broken and no real sadness was felt for frakenmom.. More disgust.. at how terribad it was

Thank you, this.

Admittedly, I was quite on edge in the build-up. I didn't want to lose Leandra. The emotional attachment came from her being Hawke's, my character's, mother rather than pure emotional investment in her as a stand-alone character, of course. She needed a larger role, as did the entire family. They blended too much in the background of the game.

Anyway, I was desperately wanting to reach her before it was too late. However, as soon as she stood up and turned around, I had a "...WTF? Really?" moment and all of my build-up fell flat. Something about the Frankenstein's monster plot was just, I don't know, distasteful?

I feel like the point of this quest, showing the darker side of magic, doesn't fit well either. Taking one lunatic and representing all mages by him would be foolish. Having Leandra caught in the crossfire of spells and killed, now that would show just how wild and dangerous magic could be, and give a proper reason as to why mages should be contained.

Giving us a quest with a lunatic using his spells for evil is like giving us a lunatic using their sword for evil. In both cases, all sane mages and soldiers aren't comparable.