21 réponses à ce sujet

[Poltava88]

 Hi everyone!

Me and my friend are two guys out of obviously sooooooooooooo many more that experience XX numbers of bugs, freezes etc. with DA2. I am playing DA2 on a computer and my friend on PS3.
the information provided by Bioware told us that they were testing a patch that would be released before the end of...well...last week, more accuratley (27 march). When we search the forum posts tonight we can't find any explanations about delays on the patch or even a slightest explanation of whats going on inside the walls of their "fortress of doom"- that is their HQ.
This have been a huuuuuuuge disapointment for us since we both enjoy games from Bioware and EA, up until now. Because of these painful events, me and my friend took the time to fill out BBB-forms (better buisness bureau) which reports these two companies to an international customer rights-company. We are sure there are more people out there with lots of problems with Dragon Age 2 and some even had their consoles corrupted.

To make sure that they hopefully not will be able to continue this behaviour in the future, we strongly suggest that as many people as possible take their time to fill out a complaint-form on https://odr.bbb.org/...getstarted.aspx


PS. (intended to Bioware and EA) Test your games thoroughly before releasing them. What do you expect people to think about you? Is this really the way to make customers happy? Ever thought of refunding people somehow? I will gladly send my game back to you and get my freakin' money back. Or you can buy me and my friend an extra copy of Shogun Total War 2 (because it's an awesome game that actually works) so we can hang it on the wall as a trophy and testiment of your humble generosity.

One last question in this wall of text and answer truthfully, have you actually tried the game yourselves before releasing it, or did you stand outside the bank on realease-day waiting for your fat paychecks?

Be thankful that I dont write exactly whats on my mind about you.

[Michael177]

edit: decided not to feed the troll =p

Modifié par Michael177, 28 mars 2011 - 02:06 .

[Notick]

If you ever want to laugh at trolls, go read some BBB complaints from major companies. (Best Buy, Amazon, eBay, etc...)

These are some of the funniest things I have ever read. In legitimate circumstances, the BBB can be helpful, however understanding a product before stepping into it is super important. Growing pains are always apart of the software industry, games included. It should be the common and basic understanding that there is always growth involved, even through release.

If you wanted a bugless program, then I'm sorry to inform you, it is damn near impossible to achieve. Even the best software and games have bugs, they're just not as noticeable. Red tape, time lines, and the bureaucracy of the business world prevents perfection before release on-top of the original issue.

If you want to change this - then I suggest you find a way to run the software world better and offer your business plan and restructure ideas to the publishers. Who knows: maybe you'll make a fortune by fixing the issues of them all, as well as help the economy by becoming a true entrepreneur.

I, for one, will understand that these issues can happen - and patiently await their patch to repair my Isabela bug. They have no need to promise me a date, unless my life was on the line. Even then - most doctors are wrong on their guestimations.

Modifié par Notick, 28 mars 2011 - 02:13 .

[Poltava88]

Notick wrote...

If you ever want to laugh at trolls, go read some BBB complaints from major companies. (Best Buy, Amazon, eBay, etc...)

These are some of the funniest things I have ever read. In legitimate circumstances, the BBB can be helpful, however understanding a product before stepping into it is super important. Growing pains are always apart of the software industry, games included. It should be the common and basic understanding that there is always growth involved, even through release.

If you wanted a bugless program, then I'm sorry to inform you, it is damn near impossible to achieve. Even the best software and games have bugs, they're just not as noticeable. Red tape, time lines, and the bureaucracy of the business world prevents perfection before release on-top of the original issue.

If you want to change this - then I suggest you find a way to run the software world better and offer your business plan and restructure ideas to the publishers. Who knows: maybe you'll make a fortune by fixing the issues of them all, as well as help the economy by becoming a true entrepreneur.

I, for one, will understand that these issues can happen - and patiently await their patch to repair my Isabela bug. They have no need to promise me a date, unless my life was on the line. Even then - most doctors are wrong on their guestimations.

There are bugs, flaws and painful moments in games yes, and I totally understand the hardships in making a flawless game, it is not possible.... but dude... there are bugs and flaws and there are games that can't be played. You must see the difference in that? Look at the thread http://social.biowar...2/index/6419752

tbh... I think you should take your diplomatic reply and shove it, since you obviously doesnt have the same problems as some of the users that are pissed off including me. What would you have done in our situation? When you cant get a straight answer from the company and you are a consumer. That is why consumer-rights companies exist, right? 

I would love to be able to use something I've paid money for (roughly 50$). To Clarify, would you be happy or content in paying for a defect product? maybe you would love to buy a car full prize without the engine?

[Pauravi]

Poltava88 wrote...

dude... there are bugs and flaws and there are games that can't be played. 

Funny, I've completed two playthroughs, so apparently it can be played.

I understand that some people have game-breaking issues, but the fact of the matter is that it is impossible to test a piece of software, especially one as complex as an RPG game, on every possible combination of software, hardware, drivers, and potential undiagnosed computer problems that any given user could be playing with.  Most games of any complexity, of which RPGs are a particularly good example, will have severe bugs for some people, and Bioware has said that they are working as hard as they can on it.  I don't know where you're getting this "March 27th" junk, but I've seen several statements by Bioware reps who refuse to state any ETA date for the patch due precisely to people like you making statements like this.

If you've played ANY PC RPG in the past several YEARS, you know that they can often have game-breaking bugs for some people, whether you have personally experienced them or not.  Every notable Bethesda game has had them, DA Origins had them -- hell, I'm pretty certain even Baldur's Gate had them.  If you can't deal with putting up with bugs, don't buy RPGs from anyone until you've read the tech support forums and/or until first patch, period. If you do, stamping your feet about it afterwards just makes you look unreasonable and foolish.

What would you have done in our situation? When you cant get a straight answer from the company and you are a consumer.

They HAVE given a straight answer, many times.  You just aren't listening because it isn't the one you want to hear.  Multiple threads like this have been posted, and they have said "we are working on it as fast as we can, we have no ETA, we will put out the patch when it is ready".  That is your answer.  It isn't "we are putting out the patch in an hour", but if that's what you're expecting then you're being unrealistic.

Modifié par Pauravi, 28 mars 2011 - 03:59 .

[Edge2177]

Waaaah, I'm going to sue because my coffee burned me. It was too hot.

Wait, you mean games ship with bugs? No way! But then they'd have to make patches... wait, you mean there's already a patch? That's such... a terrible business practice.

[didymos1120]

Um, yeah, they never, ever gave a patch release date. They may have said they hoped to have one out soon (or you're thinking of the PC patch that was released), but they just plain do not give out firm patch dates unless they are certain, period.

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 mars 2011 - 04:36 .

[JediMB]

All I've seen on release dates is that we would definitely get the patch after the 27th. That is, not any earlier than today.

As for the subject of the bugs themselves... I have to say that scripting bugs like those we've seen in Dragon Age II can be acceptable... in sandbox games. Dragon Age II is not a sandbox game.

The game's deadline was set too early, and it doesn't look like the time between the game going Gold and the actual release was used to work on patching up the bugs they hadn't had time to fix. I can't believe that no one knew about the bugs, since a good deal of them rear their ugly heads in almost every playthrough.

[dinria]

Yesterday I read a post by Mr. Evil (aka. Chris Priestly) that they couldn't even give us a rough eta for the next patch since it was still a long way to go. About all the patches and bugs with DAII, I'm sure they tested the game before the released it. I for myself have played it trough and haven't had any bugs except for the usual bugs with a few quests (two if I don't remember wrongly) so obviously the bugs isn't for every owner which indicates that the bugs is only for some systems/setups. I have no idea why it happens to some system and I'm sure that Bioware would have fixed if the bugs had occurred when they tested the game. However since it obviously didn't happen (I can't imagine Bioware releasing a game with known bugs) I can't say I'll blame them. There is no way that they can predict how ever setup will react to the game and therefore I say that it's unlucky that it turned out as it did but they probably thought it was fine when they released it.

I simply ask you to give them a bit time to correct the bugs before you blame them for something I think no company could have predicted.

[Dr.Goodspeed]

Dunno if you're just trolling hard, but the statement that Bioware gave us was that the patch was definitely NOT going to be released until 27th.

[Atrivion]

Crysis 2 is the worst launch i've seen this far. It beats this with miles.
Its rushed and the bugs from the beta is still in effect, pirated versions are able to play multiplayer since CD key is a joke. Bang your head on your keyboard and voila, you have your Multiplayer CD key and it will work. Just to mention a few, hehe.
I think its EA trying to push developers to just crap out titles as fast as they possibly can, and this is what happens. It's sad really.
Love Crysis 2 and DA2 though, i just wanna see them make the games as good as they can be at launch. Sick of buying unfinished games.

[JediMB]

dinria wrote...

so obviously the bugs isn't for every owner which indicates that the bugs is only for some systems/setups

There's nothing system-specific about scripting bugs.

[Moondoggie]

I love how some people seem to speak like DA2 is the first game every to be released with bugs on it. Did the OP play Fallout 3 when that came out? Or Oblivion? or even DAO. I had 10 times more bugs on my first playthrough of DAO than on DA2 the quality control has improved quite a bit since DAO and DAA the latter of which was a nightmare and both of those several patches later still have problems. My first playthroughs of those games were plagued with scenes that repeated even if a character had been beheaded it repeated with a headless character.

And don't get me started about the 1001 gamebreaking bugs in Fallout 3 when it came out.

In comparison to these games the 3 bugs i encountered in DA2 are pretty minor inconviniences and we likely won't need about 7 patches like Fallout 3 needed.

[Korhiann]

JediMB wrote...

dinria wrote...

so obviously the bugs isn't for every owner which indicates that the bugs is only for some systems/setups

There's nothing system-specific about scripting bugs.

Indeed, the thumbs up bug for example only happens if you gain friendship with Isabela. There might be other factors into the glitch taking effect, none of them system specific at all. Bioware knows this, so please don't try and excuse it by blaming the players. 

Regarding the patch ETA, I remember reading that it would NOT come out this weekend.
And well most of the bugs don't actually prevent you from completing or playing the game, they make it almost impossible to play the game in a certain way. I doubt that would be enough to get a refund or make an actual complaint about their business practice/support.

[didymos1120]

JediMB wrote...

There's nothing system-specific about scripting bugs.

Well, depending on what you'd count as a scripting bug, that might not be true.  If you're talking about stuff like checking for the wrong plot flag, or checking for the right one but doing the wrong thing if it's set or whatever, then no, they're not system-specific.  On the other hand, it would be possible for a script to behave properly on one system but not on another due to running into resource limitations peculiar to that system or something along those lines.  That said, the DA2 bugs so far pretty much all seem to be of the "actual logic errors in the script" variety.

[dinria]

Korhiann wrote...

JediMB wrote...

dinria wrote...

so obviously the bugs isn't for every owner which indicates that the bugs is only for some systems/setups

There's nothing system-specific about scripting bugs.

Indeed, the thumbs up bug for example only happens if you gain friendship with Isabela. There might be other factors into the glitch taking effect, none of them system specific at all. Bioware knows this, so please don't try and excuse it by blaming the players. 

Regarding the patch ETA, I remember reading that it would NOT come out this weekend.
And well most of the bugs don't actually prevent you from completing or playing the game, they make it almost impossible to play the game in a certain way. I doubt that would be enough to get a refund or make an actual complaint about their business practice/support.

Well I'm not claiming to be an expert. I just make the conclusion becaus if there was a bug which only depended on the game it would affect everyone and not just one person but since most of the bugs which hinders people from playing only affects a few (relatively to the amount of players) it should depend on something else (the console or another program working on it). That would result in an imposible task to test them all.

It's not that I don't belive you and I would be glad if you could explain it to me if I'm wrong but to put it simply. I doubtful to a bug which only depends on the game hindering some of the players and not all even if the use the same platform. Please correct me if I'm wrong cous I don't want to spread a wronly message on the forum.

[JediMB]

As far as Isabela and Sebastian's bugs go, the factors involved are...

1) Whether or not you become friends with either of them.

2) If you save/load in one of the areas that factor into creating the problem. A rough guesstimate is that these bug-factor areas are about 90% of the areas in the game.

3) How much you use Isabela and/or Sebastian after their bugs have been triggered. Anyone who has triggered the bug (which should be most people) who, say, prefer to bring Varric along with them instead of Isabela is going to get hit hard by the bug.

Modifié par JediMB, 28 mars 2011 - 03:03 .

[vas1444]

I can understand the OP's frustration completely. This has been the buggiest game I've ever bought and I've bought alot of them. The big problem with software is obviously the fact that you can't return it unlike consumer products. Would I have returned it after my playthrough was ****ed up by gamebreaking bugs such as animation slowdown and in-combat ressing resulting in out of combat behaviour? Yes. But I couldn't have. So I'm stuck with a product I don't want and can't get my money back for.

On top of that, Bioware never apologized for the amount of bugs they put out there. They are fine with charging 10$ extra over an average PC game and giving an incomplete product for it.

I'm a programmer. I know that the types of bugs they have to deal with are *easily* rectified in a much small amount of time than they've had so far post-release. I can't really see that they are indeed working *hard* on solving these issues as they are claiming they are.. That or they just have ****ty developers.

[Korhiann]

dinria wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

JediMB wrote...

dinria wrote...

so obviously the bugs isn't for every owner which indicates that the bugs is only for some systems/setups

There's nothing system-specific about scripting bugs.

Indeed, the thumbs up bug for example only happens if you gain friendship with Isabela. There might be other factors into the glitch taking effect, none of them system specific at all. Bioware knows this, so please don't try and excuse it by blaming the players. 

Regarding the patch ETA, I remember reading that it would NOT come out this weekend.
And well most of the bugs don't actually prevent you from completing or playing the game, they make it almost impossible to play the game in a certain way. I doubt that would be enough to get a refund or make an actual complaint about their business practice/support.

Well I'm not claiming to be an expert. I just make the conclusion becaus if there was a bug which only depended on the game it would affect everyone and not just one person but since most of the bugs which hinders people from playing only affects a few (relatively to the amount of players) it should depend on something else (the console or another program working on it). That would result in an imposible task to test them all.

It's not that I don't belive you and I would be glad if you could explain it to me if I'm wrong but to put it simply. I doubtful to a bug which only depends on the game hindering some of the players and not all even if the use the same platform. Please correct me if I'm wrong cous I don't want to spread a wronly message on the forum.

The thumbs up example is a cross platform glitch which seems to be affecting a lot of players, and it seems to be able to affect every player who actually meets the criteria for the glitch, as in it's not just a fluke chance when installing the game or creating a new character.
Bioware have mentioned the makers sigh as a possible co-culprit for the glitch to happen, however as they have mentioned it's just one possible culprit. At no point have they wondered about system specs, presumably because it's a cross platform glitch. (In case you are unaware as to what the glitch is, it's a Isabela glitch where the attack bonus is repeadedly taken from Hawke making him attack slower and slower (this is a simplistic explanation).
While it's impossible to correctly gauge how many actually have this problem, since only few costumers ever frequent forums much less post on them. However the problem has been wide enough to warrant a quick fix/prevention on the nexus site. Sadly this can only prevent the glitch on the pc.
Also this type of bug/glitch is the type which a lot of players may not actually notice as being such. Depending when you actually get the glitch, you may never really notice it at all.

Modifié par Korhiann, 28 mars 2011 - 05:23 .

[didymos1120]

Korhiann wrote...

Bioware have mentioned the makers sigh as a possible co-culprit for the glitch to happen, however as they have mentioned it's just one possible culprit.

Actually, they don't consider either the "culprit".  Rather, they think both, along with the Sebastian problem and possibly even a couple more things, are all essentially side-effects of a more fundamental bug.

[Korhiann]

didymos1120 wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

Bioware have mentioned the makers sigh as a possible co-culprit for the glitch to happen, however as they have mentioned it's just one possible culprit.

Actually, they don't consider either the "culprit".  Rather, they think both, along with the Sebastian problem and possibly even a couple more things, are all essentially side-effects of a more fundamental bug.

My mistake then.

[dinria]

Korhiann wrote...

*Cutting away a lot of the previous stuff*/Din

The thumbs up example is a cross platform glitch which seems to be affecting a lot of players, and it seems to be able to affect every player who actually meets the criteria for the glitch, as in it's not just a fluke chance when installing the game or creating a new character.
Bioware have mentioned the makers sigh as a possible co-culprit for the glitch to happen, however as they have mentioned it's just one possible culprit. At no point have they wondered about system specs, presumably because it's a cross platform glitch. (In case you are unaware as to what the glitch is, it's a Isabela glitch where the attack bonus is repeadedly taken from Hawke making him attack slower and slower (this is a simplistic explanation).
While it's impossible to correctly gauge how many actually have this problem, since only few costumers ever frequent forums much less post on them. However the problem has been wide enough to warrant a quick fix/prevention on the nexus site. Sadly this can only prevent the glitch on the pc.
Also this type of bug/glitch is the type which a lot of players may not actually notice as being such. Depending when you actually get the glitch, you may never really notice it at all.

Well the bugs I had in mind was more like "the game doesn't start when I press play" bugs which when I last read about it a "We don't know why" matter. I don't really know about the other platforms but of what I've heard they had a few similar problems. However if you're sure about what your saying I'll just thank you for informing me and discard my conclusion then