110 réponses à ce sujet

[Estelindis]

I felt sorry for the Viscount as well. He struck me as a good man in a bad situation. I honestly felt it was a failure on my Hawke's part that she didn't manage to save him. (A plot-imposed failure, but failure nonetheless.)

[Kenshen]

The Angry One wrote...

Well there's always the possibility that Meredith orders Elthina's arrest and execution, the Templars refuse such a ridiculous order, Meredith unleashes Soul Edge early, everybody fights her and the day is saved!

And then Orsino turns into a monster anyway.

Maybe but I don't think so.  We see at the begining of act 3 that Elthina does have power over Meredith when she tells her to go back to the Gallows and cool down.  The look Meredith gives after that is priceless but she still follows the order without complaint.  IMO Elthina was the only person who could talk Meredith down and that is why Anders blew her up.

[Medhia Nox]

Some of you expect very little from your leaders - that good for them I suppose.

The Viscount was a poor leader, that doesn't make him a bad man. It also doesn't mean I think he "got what he deserved". But he was "not the man for the job".

He had power - he had the guards. He knew nothing about what his Guard Captain was doing - he let Meredith gain too much power - and he allowed a foreign army to hold up inside his city.

Three strikes - and evidently your head rolls.

====

I think he should have simply handed the power over to the Seneschal who seemed far more capable fo the job.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 28 mars 2011 - 08:46 .

[InvaderErl]

He was kind of a crappy ruler who earnestly seemed to try his best. Definitely felt sorry for him that he ended up separated from the rest of his body.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 28 mars 2011 - 08:49 .

[Herr Uhl]

Medhia Nox wrote...

He had power - he had the guards. He knew nothing about what his Guard Captain was doing - he let Meredith gain too much power - and he allowed a foreign army to hold up inside his city.

You apparently didn't pay attention to why last guy who applied for the job was forced to quit.

[Lord Gremlin]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Funny thing about the Qunari - I'd love to see how people would react if something of theirs was stolen in real life.

Probably a lot more violent (within the scope of your ability, you don't have an army)... for something of a lot less significance.

In place of Arishok I would simply set a bunch of toxic gas barrels in city sewers/underground, and temporarily withdraw my army.
Then come back, count corpses, search for book, retrieve it. Arishok failed in one aspect: instead of doing his job he's been sitting on his fat arse for years, debating social truths and philosophies. While his job was retrieving book. I guess he's been occupied with cookies the whole time.

[Medhia Nox]

@Herr Uhl : I'll assume it was because: "City was corrupt."

Yeah - well, tell that to Commissioner Gorden.

===

If it's something other than that... please enlighten, I assure you I'll have any answer.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 28 mars 2011 - 09:00 .

[vigna]

Well, honestly Hawke never had the option of killing Petrice so no I didn't. He seemed like a typical politically correct leader that is useless because they can never make a choice that has consequence. Mind you, I hated that his son died and he got his head cut off, but really I kinda saw that coming.

[Herr Uhl]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Herr Uhl : I'll assume it was because: "City was corrupt."

He tried to kick out the templars and got rid of his head for his trouble.

Edit: You can read a bit more on it here.

The fact that the City Guard still pales in comparison to the templars in Kirkwall, and something that became all too apparent when Viscount Perrin Threnhold unsuccessfully attempted to eject the templars from the city in 9:20 Dragon, is a fact that few choose to speak of.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 28 mars 2011 - 09:13 .

[Medhia Nox]

Ahh, well - you don't "Kick Out" the templars.

You use the nobles and wealth - and a lot of elbow grease - to diminish their power base. I'm not even above a good o'le fashion assassination on Meredith. What's good for Queen Elizabeth I - is good for me. She loved removing her political opponents from the shadows.

You feed the nobles fear - those people will do anything to save their necks. And what love do they have for the Templars? I'd target families who had first born sons/daughters who were mages. Perhaps I'd even help hide them - with a LOT of funding on behalf of the family in question.

With the money - I'd have my seneschal disgrace lower/middle ranking Templars - blackmail others and use them against the organization, or fund rebels (like Thrask) - and make genuine allies with good natured Templars who were questioning the chain of command (like Cullen). So what if my seneschal get's caught - I dissavow all knowledge, send him to the gallows, and make nice nice with Meredith - for now.

At any rate - removing Meredith would be my number one priority LONG before the Qunari got to the city. If I was going to break myself against an opponent - I'd rather it be Meredith than: "The Qunari I let in the front door."

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 28 mars 2011 - 09:15 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

That thing with the book and the Qunari made me have nothing but contempt for them. It was a frakkin' book. Is a single book worth killing a bunch of innocent people over? In my first playthrough he didn't get the book because Isabella ran off with it, and then he goes on a rampage through Kirkwall??? Killing the Arishok was like scraping dog crap off my shoes.

But now I find out that if he gets the book he still goes off on a rampage because the book makes up for what he's lacking in another department. I haven't interacted with him, but rest assured we will be rude.

And honor? Sorry, but this duel thing.... If Hawke failed in the duel, I would certainly hope that the rest of the party would clean house considering the quick work they made of the minions. Also considering what was done, I certainly would hope that if it looked like Hawke was going to lose to the Arishok that Varric would put a bolt in his skull. I plan to use poison this time.

[PsychoWARD23]

Saemus' death scene was my favorite part of the whole game.

[Lekwid]

The Angry One wrote...

The Viscount was a better man than the Arishok could ever hope to be.
The Arishok prattles on about honour like the word can be bought for a couple of silver, he doesn't have a clue what it means.
The Viscount meanwhile does his best to keep the situation stable while constantly being slapped in the fact by all sides, hell he wasn't even that concerned with whether Seamus believed in the Qun or not, other than his constant wishy washy defections were just worsening the situation.

"Ah yes, honour, we have dismissed those claims..."

[Elfseeker]

The Qunari. If there is one thing they are -not-, it's savage. They are actually under iron-band control. The 'Qun'. Their Way. They look like humanoid beasts and demons, yes...we know through Sten(apparently more a title than a name) that they will eventually invade Ferelden(at least). This is bad, obviously. But the reason -why- they will do so? They perceive the outside world as 'chaotic', with no sense. They will invade and take over to provide control and sense. The Qunari version of Freedom. And considering the 'converts' seem to suffer no ills, I can't quite condemn the idea. But a whole slew of folks in power-positions go about things all wrong in this game, I've found. The Arishok is just bigger and stronger than most of them.

As for why the viscount did not cast the cunari out? *ahem* I thought it was made pretty clear everywhere the topic came up that the qunari would win any such engagement with ease. Everyone engaged in conversation, everyone overheard in the streets...qunari vs soldiers/templars=qunari victory. Every time. Rejecting them was simply not an option. And I'm quite sure keeping them housed and fed in times of trouble(such as shipwrecked) IS part of the treaties. As for poisoning the food? what do you think would happen when they found out? And you know they would. Stupid beasts, they clearly are not.

My character was impressed by Sten's words about his people, and more concerned than angry about the apparent fact that they would eventually invade. If that little snag in qunariy-everyone-else interactions could be fixed, things would probably take a better turn...but of course that 'snag' is the base-stone for all qunari, so no go. This game, at least. But having stopped a blight in record time and 'freed' the circles all over Thedas...changing the Qun mind next stop?

Now, I'm reasonably sure I knew the relic was qunari from pretty early on and thought it odd 'Hawke hadn't figured it out before the Talk. But then those codex-entries sometimes reveal all too much at once, don't they? Probably because the writers for this thing were so bleepin' lazy they couldn't even be bothered adding a 'stepped reveal'-function....or a whole pile of dialogue-options(where it wasn't entire DIALOGUES that were missing) I thought were obvious, but never appeared.

[Lithuasil]

Given they took three years to find their most holy relic of all time, and once they found out where it is, and that it had left Kirkwall, rose up to burn and pillage a bit, because their leader got bored... savage morons is a pretty good description actually.

[Camenae]

The question is not why he didn't cast the Qunari out, it's why he let them in. Ask any country if they would let a foreign military force led by THE military leader of that foreign country just camp out inside their territory indefinitely. Not to mention this military force refuses to tell you of their true motives, so you can only assume. And you usually have to assume the worst when all you know is you see an army.

[Legbiter]

The Viscount was a complete nonentity, totally in over his head. His cause of death was stupidity.

[Camenae]

Legbiter wrote...

The Viscount was a complete nonentity, totally in over his head. His cause of death was stupidity.

I agree, especially as how the viscount's weakness and stupidity are the very reasons that made Meredith pick him for the job in the first place.  Meredith didn't want somebody who'd get in her way, she wanted somebody who's going to be easy to control.

[cglasgow]

Camenae wrote...

The question is not why he didn't cast the Qunari out, it's why he let them in. Ask any country if they would let a foreign military force led by THE military leader of that foreign country just camp out inside their territory indefinitely.

When killing that military leader would likely start World War III?  More than you'd think, bro.

Pre-emptively whacking the Arishok starts the next human-qunari war... and that's a war the humans were lucky to fight to a draw, last time, when they were much more unified and not just coming off a ****ing Blight.

So yeah, the Viscount had reasons to hope to the Maker that he could reason with the Arishok instead.

Modifié par cglasgow, 28 mars 2011 - 11:15 .

[Camenae]

Notice I never said the Viscount should kill the Qunari instead of letting them in, just that he should not let them in. I don't let everybody in my house, but that doesn't mean I shoot everybody who comes to my door, even though I do live in Texas. : p

If the Viscount had insisted the main body of the military camp outside Kirkwall and small delegates can enter the city to do their thing, I think that would certainly be reasonable. Now if the Arishok reacted violently to that...well that's another thing.

(And I am not a bro)

[cglasgow]

Camenae wrote...

Notice I never said the Viscount should kill the Qunari instead of letting them in, just that he should not let them in.

Remember, the Arishok and his crew arrived by being the survivors of a shipwreck.  'Tell them to get the hell back on their boat and leave' is not an option the Viscount has; he can either let them squat somewhere or else have them shot, that's about it.

[Camenae]

Kirkwall has the Gallows, the Docks...which means ships. Just saying, I would have thought, uhhh you guys seem like a formidable army, of a people who's known to be less than reluctant about fighting wars. I would have kindly offered to help them set up camp OUTSIDE the city walls and lent them some of Kirkwall's ships. Of course they would have refused that. Which doesn't exactly make their unknown motives seem less shady.

[errant_knight]

I liked and empathized with the viscount more than many of my companions. I wish there'd been a way to save him. He was a good man who really didn't deserve to die like that.

[Medhia Nox]

@Cglasgow : Why isn't "Get back on your boat." an option when he's governs a port city... please, he could have given them ships to leave. I would have forced my people to suffer a little, even a lot, of inconvenience - to get rid of the Qunari military.

And not letting them into your city does not mean "World War 3" - that's a erroneous claim simply to have sympathy for a poor leader.

Still - this argument amounts to one thing - a poorly contrived series of events to tell this pitifully thought out story. None of these character acted like they really should have.