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[Satyricon331]

The Forgotten Ones are the dark entities of elven mythology, enemies of the elven gods. The elven trickster god (Fen'harel) sealed them up in the Abyss and sealed the elven gods in heaven, according to elven lore.

[Emperor Iaius I]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

The Veil can be rebound (see: Soldier's Peak) but yeah, it doesn't seem to restore itself on its own.

Would be interesting to know in what magnitude the Veil can be rebound. In Soldiers Peak just one mage ripped it. In Kirkwall the whole city was so drenched in blood that possibly the whole city and the land surrounding it exist in one freaking huge gap. (Did I already mention that it was one brilliant idea to buld a circle there? )

The funny thing is that the magisters are probably the only ones who know enough magical lore to fix it.

[Batorific]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

The funny thing is that the magisters are probably the only ones who know enough magical lore to fix it.

i think its that the Magisters are the only ones with the freedom to do that sort of research.  in other parts of Thedas, trying to enter the fade, even to fix the Veil, may be grounds to call blasphemy against the Maker. or start demon paranoia.

of course, freedom is a double-edged sword.  they probably figured out innumerous "good" things, but also obviously figured out horrible things...

but what is science without mistakes?

Modifié par Batorific, 28 mars 2011 - 07:23 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Batorific wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

The funny thing is that the magisters are probably the only ones who know enough magical lore to fix it.

i think its that the Magisters are the only ones with the freedom to do that sort of research.  in other parts of Thedas, trying to enter the fade, even to fix the Veil, may be grounds to call blasphemy against the Maker. or start demon paranoia.

of course, freedom is a double-edged sword.  they probably figured out innumerous "good" things, but also obviously figured out horrible things...

but what is science without mistakes?

This is why I spared Avernus. Though he did unspeakable things in the name of research... his results and the promise of his further research were far too valuable to be disregarded.

Consider it a necessary evil on the path towards the greater good.

The only issue is when the necessary evils become too prevalent and the greater good is no longer the goal. That is why this type of research needs a basis for moral subjectivity. Oversight is necessary to prevent abuse.

The REAL problem with this, however, is that oversight is difficult when the researcher can reduce you to a cripsy pile of ash fine enough to vanish into the wind itself...

[Teddie Sage]

I never pay attention to the codex entries... Maybe I should from now on.

[Myusha]

...The connections are amazing...

The whole idea of Kirkwall resting on the unholiest power that could very well be driving others crazy, the entire place is going nuts due to it's influence, and the nefarious purpose that awaits...Sandal's prophecy that magic will return may also connect that the Veil itself may be removed soon....I believe that in the codex, the Profane were called the Forgotten ones, but I may be wrong about that.

Also Caridin supposedly created Golems with the Anvil, yet in this old, old, old thaig, there were golems that resided. These golems were crafted before Caridin as well. Also consider the fall of Arthalan. According to the optional quest in Witch Hunt, some Thiags [Like Cadash] may have given refuge to fleeing Elves, where they co-existed. Were Elves in the Primeval Thiag?
If there were no Elves there, then the Dwarves probably had a good relationship with Imperium, which links back to the Engima of Kirkwall's discoveries.

Consider Orsino's blood magic, and he made himself into a Harvester through more direct means, but that only took so many bodies. Fathom 1000 slaves or so a year powering this means something horrific. Add alongside the possibility they 'may' have access to the Red Lyrium to draw power from...

So many things to grasp at, but where does it all lead. Do any of these thoughts connect, or are are they wild theories?

Could the entry into the Golden City have taken place here with that power? Forged the Origin of the Blight, and the Chantry's formation? Then what line did the Architect spawn?

And could the Eluvian reach the new plane, when the rite was accomplished?

...I hope an expansion or DLC gives us more information.

[Batorific]

Myusha wrote...

Also Caridin supposedly created Golems with the Anvil, yet in this old, old, old thaig, there were golems that resided. These golems were crafted before Caridin as well. Also consider the fall of Arthalan. According to the optional quest in Witch Hunt, some Thiags [Like Cadash] may have given refuge to fleeing Elves, where they co-existed. Were Elves in the Primeval Thiag?  If there were no Elves there, then the Dwarves probably had a good relationship with Imperium, which links back to the Engima of Kirkwall's discoveries.

Consider Orsino's blood magic, and he made himself into a Harvester through more direct means, but that only took so many bodies. Fathom 1000 slaves or so a year powering this means something horrific. Add alongside the possibility they 'may' have access to the Red Lyrium to draw power from...

you bring up something interesting!  what if, in fact, the Primeval Thaig is whats deep underneathe Kirkwall?   All that strange corrupted "pure" Lyrium and the Idol...  Is there anything saying that the Thaig isnt under kirkwall?  the Deep Roads go far and around.  Just because the entrance is far out of Kirkwall doesn't mean we don't circle around and end up under the city.


Imma just go sit in my Conspiracy Nut corner and ramble on about how the Veil is going to disappear completely and all shall see the realm of dreams whilst waking!  the City shall be upon us, physically and eternally.


and while typing that i thought of something else.  Maybe the Primeval Thaig was once the Cage of an Old God?   Certainly looks beat up enough and bizarre enough.  And if thats under Kirkwall... imagine the possibilities!  the remnant power and influence of an old god deep beneathe Kirkwall... good stuff.

[Myusha]

Lyrium corrupted by an Old God. Red Pure Lyrium

...Is this something Flemeth and Morrigan wanted?

Yay Conspiracy.

The Imperium Mages worshipped the Old Gods.
There are appearantly ruins, hidden temples dedicated to these old gods.
Plus Lyrium and the Archdemon give off a...calling.

Justice in Awakening says Lyrium gives off a sound to spirits and the like if given the Lyrium Ring.
The Architect calls the Archdemon's call a beautiful wretched sound, that probably drives them insane or into a focused frenzy or ferality.

If the Archdemon could corrupt Lyrium, could it explain the Idol's madness?
Could the idol resonate to a person's soul and give off the wretched call of the Archdemon's essence?

Only the strong-willed are shown to resist the Archdemon's calls as shown in Awakening, thus explaining Bartrand's fall, and not Meredith's, where hers can be accounted to her prejudice against mages being twisted by Kirkwall's past...

Modifié par Myusha, 28 mars 2011 - 08:50 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

Old Gods only become archdemons after they are corrupted by the Maker's Taint. Before that, they are beautiful, lovely dragons.

They're still beautiful after that, but it's a tragic beauty. They roar in anguish and strike out at the world in pain. Didn't the archdemon in Origins just make you want to give it a nice big and coo "sshh.... it'll be okay *pat pat*"

. . . tell me I wasn't the only one thinking that.

[TobiTobsen]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Old Gods only become archdemons after they are corrupted by the Maker's Taint. Before that, they are beautiful, lovely dragons.

They're still beautiful after that, but it's a tragic beauty. They roar in anguish and strike out at the world in pain. Didn't the archdemon in Origins just make you want to give it a nice big and coo "sshh.... it'll be okay *pat pat*"

. . . tell me I wasn't the only one thinking that.

You, Sir, need a visit from you local templar chapter for that heresy!

[Batorific]

Myusha wrote...

If the Archdemon could corrupt Lyrium, could it explain the Idol's madness?
Could the idol resonate to a person's soul and give off the wretched call of the Archdemon's essence?

i dont think an Archdemon corrupted the idol.  Lyrium holds memories imprinted upon them, thus why the Dwarves use them to keep history.  the Idol "wanted to be worshipped" according to Bartrand, and sang to him.  That sounds like Lyrium imprinted with the memories of an old god.  singing away, wanting to be worshipped, waiting to be found.

surely, that same power could influence everything around it and leave a very defined imprint on the ground.  thus the weird appearance of the Thaig.

i think this highly suggests that an old god, or some great power similiar to it, once existed below Kirkwall (likely in the Primeval Thaig).  I would avoid saying its an Archdemon.  There's no proof that it was corrupted by Darkspawn.  Old Gods are just that, old gods.  not necessarily evil but desiring love, attention... worship.  Maybe there was never an old god there at all.  but it would explain the Idol's odd behaviour.  and why the idol existed.

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

They're still beautiful after that, but it's a tragic beauty. They roar in anguish and strike out at the world in pain. Didn't the archdemon in Origins just make you want to give it a nice big and coo "sshh.... it'll be okay *pat pat*"

. . . tell me I wasn't the only one thinking that.

i wanted to, too.  I don't see the old gods as evil.  nor as good. and theyre adorable.  but i have this odd obsession with dragons i probably shouldn't get into here. <.< >.>

Modifié par Batorific, 28 mars 2011 - 09:06 .

[Myusha]

It makes more sense.

Morrigan's Old God Baby! Any ideas there? XD

[Batorific]

Myusha wrote...

It makes more sense.

Morrigan's Old God Baby! Any ideas there? XD

doesn't apply here because it isn't canon.  i think it would be more interesting to note that if the Flemeth is an Old God theory is correct, she may well have been the one under Kirkwall

maybe the Dwarves freed the old god caged there?  instead of it getting corrupted by Darkspawn.  all guessing and conspiracy.

[Myusha]

Morrigan's God Baby isn't canon? Blasphemy! It's the most likely choice!

And Conspiracy is done for me tonight. Sleepy....

[Corker]

I've got a theory.

The red lyrium is important.  It's what drew the ancient elves to Sundermount to put their elders into uthenera there; it's why the ancient elves and Tevinter chose the site for an epic magical battle; it's what drew the Tevinter to found a city there.  I suspect the red lyrium is correlated with a weak Veil - either "Fade energies" turn the lyrium red or the red lyrium thins the Veil, dunno which came first. 

The codex entry for the Veil contains the observation, "In our world, imagination has no substance." It goes on for a bit explaining how imagination does have substance in the Fade.  Normally, there's not much interplay between the two realms.  Dreams aren't reality; reality isn't dreams.  The major exception is possession, where making a deal in a dream can allow a demon to cross into your physical body.  The other exception seems to be the "dreamer" mages like Feynriel.  They can do things in the Fade and have it happen in the physical world - up to and including killing people.

Dreamers are very rare; Marethari hasn't heard of one among the Dalish in 200 years.

If I were an ambitious archon, I might like a secret chamber where the Veil was so thin, any mage could achieve the effects that dreamers can.  I could, perhaps with practice, entirely remake the world to my liking just by thinking about it.

That's an epic ambition, and would (dramatically, anyway) need something suitably impossibly epic to achieve it.  Something like an occult city built on lakes of blood.

Total speculation, of course.    But I like an occult superweapon research program better than "they were trying to summon Xebenkeck."

[Emperor Iaius I]

Batorific wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

They're still beautiful after that, but it's a tragic beauty. They roar in anguish and strike out at the world in pain. Didn't the archdemon in Origins just make you want to give it a nice big and coo "sshh.... it'll be okay *pat pat*"

. . . tell me I wasn't the only one thinking that.

i wanted to, too.  I don't see the old gods as evil.  nor as good. and theyre adorable.  but i have this odd obsession with dragons i probably shouldn't get into here. <.< >.>

Well, there could be worse places to  get into it. At least here you're among friends.

[zeypher]

the discussion here makes me ask one thing. what if the tevinter mages actually entered the fade to prevent a massive tear of fade cause they knew what would have happened had they not done that, while andraste on the other hand was a demon possed powerful mage who didnt want the tears to be fixed and therefore fought the imperium

[PantheraOnca]

I think the codex on the profane mentions the dwarfs eating or consuming or something their gods. When I read that I suspected that the ancient thaig dwarves and elves shared a pantheon, and that when the elven gods disappeared it was because the dwarves did whatever they did to them. With the enigma, I now wonder if whatever they did, they did below Kirkwall with their gods

[Blacklash93]

Myusha wrote...

...I hope an expansion or DLC gives us more information.

The answer is right under Kirkwall.

It would be a complete waste to ignore it.

[Arppis]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

The Enigma of Kirkwall is one of the reasons why I turned pro Templar, even though the Templars had their own problems. The Tevinter magisters sound truly brutal, megalomaniac, and sadistic. As oppressive as the mages think the Circle is, it's a spa resort compared to old Tevinter Imperium.

Everyone has potential for evil, darling. Well not me ofcourse, I am 100% good and righteous and all that! I always do the right thing... in the end.