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[AngelicMachinery]

wulfsturm wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Some Templars are rotten, but there are also good ones, which is more than can be said for the mages who turn out to be blood mages, serial killers and abominations one and all.

Does that include Bethany and all of those mages the templars killed for being mages?

Bethany got stompeded by an ogre.  and I'm sure all those mages were evil!  Evil I tells ya.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Turn out to be blood mages and abominations? You forget that the Veil is very thin in Kirkwall. Very thin. The demons are whispering to the mages constantly. They're abused, mistreated, mistrusted, and kept in a cell with no company BUT those demons. Then, when put at the tip of the sword, they decide you know what, maybe I have a better chance with the demon than I do getting run through with a sword.

And you JUDGE them for that?

[Talladarr]

This was mentioned in another thread, but someone pointed out some info given in some obscure codex entries that suggest that there are so many blood mages and abominations because of what the Tevinters did at the city centuries ago. I wouldn't doubt that it would effect the Templars as well

[TobiTobsen]

wulfsturm wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Some Templars are rotten, but there are also good ones, which is more than can be said for the mages who turn out to be blood mages, serial killers and abominations one and all.

Does that include Bethany and all of those mages the templars killed for being mages?

Which we don't see. That's the problem of the presentation or what Bioware wanted us to see to give us another viewpoint after the magefriendly DAO. Somehow they had to ... ahaha "demonize" the mages. So all we get to see are (to quote somebody else here on the forum. Forgot who) Bloodmages, Abominations and Bethany

[wulfsturm]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Bethany got stompeded by an ogre.  and I'm sure all those mages were evil!  Evil I tells ya.

About as evil as your average templar I'd say.

[Glorfindel709]

Look, in all fairness to both sides, they were turned into crap by the game.

Mages - lore wise they are the ones to be pitied - they turn to blood magic and demons because they feel backed into a corner with the Templars going around abusing them (and with hundreds of new tranquil (at least according to Orsino and Anders) filling the Gallows, it's evident that quite a number of Mages are being treated less than humanely by the Templars. Game play wise, however, in order to make the fights harder and the story more murky, they make nearly every random mage encounter have abominations and demons and blood magic at their disposal.

Meanwhile, the story makes out to turn the Templars into demons. Mages are threatened with sexual abuse, the "tranquil solution", and in general being sadists. There are three named Templars who are not complete sadists or sycophants - Keran, Thrask, and Cullen. Every other named Templar is a mage hating sadist (or Qunari hating sadist in the case of Varnell), and the random templars in the background are either just fine following orders they know are wrong, or are too timid to say anything against it.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is an attempt to make the choice for us "difficult" and "moral". In my personal opinion, it was the choice between two bowls of poo, the only difference between them being that one was more self-righteous and the other more abominable.

[AngelicMachinery]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Turn out to be blood mages and abominations? You forget that the Veil is very thin in Kirkwall. Very thin. The demons are whispering to the mages constantly. They're abused, mistreated, mistrusted, and kept in a cell with no company BUT those demons. Then, when put at the tip of the sword, they decide you know what, maybe I have a better chance with the demon than I do getting run through with a sword.

And you JUDGE them for that?

Yes, yes I do.  Just as I judge Merrideth for being a loony toon.  Besides, if the Veil is  so thin in Kirkwall mages need to be put on extremely short leashes.  The Fereldan mages were okay,  but,  you've got a whole town of very, very bad mages.

[The Angry One]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Turn out to be blood mages and abominations? You forget that the Veil is very thin in Kirkwall. Very thin. The demons are whispering to the mages constantly. They're abused, mistreated, mistrusted, and kept in a cell with no company BUT those demons. Then, when put at the tip of the sword, they decide you know what, maybe I have a better chance with the demon than I do getting run through with a sword.

And you JUDGE them for that?

Ever think that maybe the Templars are oppressing them BECAUSE the demons are whispering to the mages constantly?
And again, if all it takes for mages to be super vunerable to demons is to be in an area where lots of people died hundreds of years ago then the Chantry is right, and the only real issue here is why nobody put 2 and 2 together and moved the Circle away from Kirkwal.

.... actually, if you're going to blame Kirkwall for this... what the hell is Decimus and Grace's excuse then? They're from Starkhaven.

[wulfsturm]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Yes, yes I do.  Just as I judge Merrideth for being a loony toon.  Besides, if the Veil is  so thin in Kirkwall mages need to be put on extremely short leashes.  The Fereldan mages were okay,  but,  you've got a whole town of very, very bad mages.

You either have an enviable life, or a pitiable memory to know nothing of discremination.

[Glorfindel709]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

 if the Veil is  so thin in Kirkwall mages need to be put on extremely short leashes.

I think Ser Alrik would like your idea.

[The Angry One]

wulfsturm wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Bethany got stompeded by an ogre.  and I'm sure all those mages were evil!  Evil I tells ya.

About as evil as your average templar I'd say.

For every Alrik and Meredith we have a Cullen and Thrask.
Mages on the other hand have Bethany and.. well, that's it.

[TobiTobsen]

The Angry One wrote...

.... actually, if you're going to blame Kirkwall for this... what the hell is Decimus and Grace's excuse then? They're from Starkhaven.

FREEDOOOOOOOOM!

Oh... wrong movie...

[AngelicMachinery]

wulfsturm wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Yes, yes I do.  Just as I judge Merrideth for being a loony toon.  Besides, if the Veil is  so thin in Kirkwall mages need to be put on extremely short leashes.  The Fereldan mages were okay,  but,  you've got a whole town of very, very bad mages.

You either have an enviable life, or a pitiable memory to know nothing of discremination.

I'm not a walking nuclear bomb.

[Talladarr]

The Angry One wrote...
And again, if all it takes for mages to be super vunerable to demons is to be in an area where lots of people died hundreds of years ago then the Chantry is right, and the only real issue here is why nobody put 2 and 2 together and moved the Circle away from Kirkwal

That's somethign  Inever understood either. They KNOW what hapenened ther, they KNOW the veil is thin, why the **** is the circle THERE of all places?

[Talladarr]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Yes, yes I do.  Just as I judge Merrideth for being a loony toon.  Besides, if the Veil is  so thin in Kirkwall mages need to be put on extremely short leashes.  The Fereldan mages were okay,  but,  you've got a whole town of very, very bad mages.

You either have an enviable life, or a pitiable memory to know nothing of discremination.

I'm not a walking nuclear bomb.

Hey now, Anders is an isolated incident xD

[TobiTobsen]

Talladarr wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
And again, if all it takes for mages to be super vunerable to demons is to be in an area where lots of people died hundreds of years ago then the Chantry is right, and the only real issue here is why nobody put 2 and 2 together and moved the Circle away from Kirkwal

That's somethign  Inever understood either. They KNOW what hapenened ther, they KNOW the veil is thin, why the **** is the circle THERE of all places?

Because the order dictates. Or the Plot. Or Bioware.

[Talladarr]

Are we SERIOUSLY still blaming Bioware for the problems with the game? Have we forgotten that EA OWNS Bioware, and forced them into a short development time?

[wulfsturm]

The Angry One wrote...

Mages on the other hand have Bethany and.. well, that's it.

...And Marethar, and Wynne, and Irving, and Valanna, and Aneirin, and...

I'm not a walking nuclear bomb.

Neither are mages.

Modifié par wulfsturm, 28 mars 2011 - 07:24 .

[The Angry One]

wulfsturm wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Mages on the other hand have Bethany and.. well, that's it.

...And Marethar, and Wynne, and Irving, and Valanna, and Aneirin, and...

DA2

[AngelicMachinery]

I freed the mages of Fereldan they seemed like good people, far fewer blood mages, abominations, and whatnot.

Also, Valanna isn't really a good example for Mages. She goes nuts and kills random travelers.

[wulfsturm]

The Angry One wrote...

DA2

Marethari is in DA2 but if you want DA2-only characters, your going to have to leave Cullen out.

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Also, Valanna isn't really a good example for Mages. She goes nuts and kills random travelers.

I'd say she was human... but you know. She is a living weapon of mass destruction after all, and not a living being.

Modifié par wulfsturm, 28 mars 2011 - 07:29 .

[Glorfindel709]

Talladarr wrote...

Are we SERIOUSLY still blaming Bioware for the problems with the game? Have we forgotten that EA OWNS Bioware, and forced them into a short development time?

Yes, yes we are. Fact is, you don't try to change the art style, dialogue system, combat system, UI, and a plethora of other things when you have a year and a handful of months for development time. It leads to less content because you have to build the entire system from the ground up. Had they kept more things from Origins, I imagine that the game would be quite a bit longer and would have more actual choice and fleshed out story.

I am a fan of innovation, but not at the expense of quality.

[The Angry One]

wulfsturm wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

DA2

Marethari is in DA2 but if you want DA2-only characters, your going to have to leave Cullen out.

Since you missed the i I thought you meant someone else.
Marethari? Setting aside for the moment that she's Dalish.. this is the same Marethari who falls for the Pride Demon's manipulations and becomes an abomination, you know.

[TobiTobsen]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I freed the mages of Fereldan they seemed like good people, far fewer blood mages, abominations, and whatnot.

Also, Valanna isn't really a good example for Mages. She goes nuts and kills random travelers.

Just wanted to write that. Velanna is a pretty bad example for a good mage. Good mages don't go on killing sprees. (And they don't let Darkspawn fool them )

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 28 mars 2011 - 07:28 .

[Lucky_Dawg]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I'm not a walking nuclear bomb.

so should we lock up and put under a microscope anyone with the I.Q. enough to learn how to make a nuclear bomb then ? because the issue i see is not the weapon.. it's the lack of education in learning to properly use that weapon which is the danger..

but yeah, back on topic directly.. i wish there was an option to have killed Grace in act 1.. ah well at least I get to kill her in another act.. hehe ! ( tho that lil' plot twist is a decent way of making the player go : "aaaw man. I knew that b*!h was trouble ! "