147 réponses à ce sujet

[Glorfindel709]

I think Thrask was one of my favorite non-companion NPCs in the game. He had strong convictions and was willing to stand for what he thought was right. He's got more spine than 90% of the Templar order in Kirkwall.

And on a side note, did anyone else think it was odd that the Freemarches don't adopt a usual system of one Circle serving the nation its in? It would serve to localize everyone into one place (makes the Tranquilizing that much easier too)

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 28 mars 2011 - 07:32 .

[The Angry One]

Lucky_Dawg wrote...

so should we lock up and put under a microscope anyone with the I.Q. enough to learn how to make a nuclear bomb then ? because the issue i see is not the weapon.. it's the lack of education in learning to properly use that weapon which is the danger.

And what if that person could launch nuclear bombs out of  their hands, would you still support total unregulated freedom for them?

[AngelicMachinery]

Lucky_Dawg wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I'm not a walking nuclear bomb.

so should we lock up and put under a microscope anyone with the I.Q. enough to learn how to make a nuclear bomb then ? because the issue i see is not the weapon.. it's the lack of education in learning to properly use that weapon which is the danger..

but yeah, back on topic directly.. i wish there was an option to have killed Grace in act 1.. ah well at least I get to kill her in another act.. hehe ! ( tho that lil' plot twist is a decent way of making the player go : "aaaw man. I knew that b*!h was trouble ! " 

If a person has the knowledge,  materials,  and power to make a nuclear bomb without being directly controlled by a government orgnization... yea I think they should be locked up.  

[Talladarr]

TobiTobsen wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I freed the mages of Fereldan they seemed like good people, far fewer blood mages, abominations, and whatnot.

Also, Valanna isn't really a good example for Mages. She goes nuts and kills random travelers.

Just wanted to write that. Velanna is a pretty bad example for a good mage. Good mages don't go on killing sprees. (And they don't let Darkspawn fool them )

Umm, before then Darkspawn hadn't exactly been smart. Just sayin.

The Angry One wrote...
Marethari? Setting aside for the moment
that she's Dalish.. this is the same Marethari who falls for the Pride
Demon's manipulations and becomes an abomination, you know.

She sisn't get manipulated at all. She took the demon in intenionally to hopefully save Merrill. I'd say she's a great example

[wulfsturm]

The Angry One wrote...


Since you missed the i I thought you meant someone else.
Marethari? Setting aside for the moment that she's Dalish.. this is the same Marethari who falls for the Pride Demon's manipulations and becomes an abomination, you know.

What does being Dalish have anything to do with anything? Are we discriminating agaisnt race now? And she didn't "fall for the Pride Demon's manipulations" she willingly sacrificed herself by containing the demon within herself...When this Demon is defeated it is revealed she does this because of her love for Merrill and hope that she will change her ways.
-dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Marethari

The Angry One wrote...

And what if that person could
launch nuclear bombs out of  their hands, would you still support total
unregulated freedom for them?

You're overexagerating by a lot. To say that a single average mage can destroy an entire city in the blink of an eye is sheer blind foolishness. Hell, my mage has trouble killing one person, much less an entire city of people.

Modifié par wulfsturm, 28 mars 2011 - 07:35 .

[The Angry One]

Talladarr wrote...

She sisn't get manipulated at all. She took the demon in intenionally to hopefully save Merrill. I'd say she's a great example

What, you don't think that the pride demon used her pride against her and lied about what he had planned for Merril?

[TobiTobsen]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

I think Thrask was one of my favorite non-companion NPCs in the game. He had strong convictions and was willing to stand for what he thought was right. He's got more spine than 90% of the Templar order in Kirkwall.

And on a side note, did anyone else think it was odd that the Freemarches don't adopt a usual system of one Circle serving the nation its in? It would serve to localize everyone into one place (makes the Tranquilizing that much easier too)

And he got ganked by a **** with plotarmor for his troubles. Just like every other decent person in the game

[The Angry One]

wulfsturm wrote...

What does being Dalish have anything to do with anything? Are we discriminating agaisnt race now?

Dalish mages are put in positions of power as Keepers already, and are therefore less likely to become unruly because they call the shots in the first place.

And she didn't "fall for the Pride Demon's manipulations" she willingly sacrificed herself by containing the demon within herself...When this Demon is defeated it is revealed she does this because of her love for Merrill and hope that she will change her ways.
-dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Marethari

Wikis contain just as much fan interpretation as forums. What the damn PRIDE DEMON tells us is not necesarrily fact.

[wulfsturm]

The Angry One wrote...

Dalish mages are put in positions of power as Keepers already, and are therefore less likely to become unruly because they call the shots in the first place.

Wikis contain just as much fan interpretation as forums. What the damn PRIDE DEMON tells us is not necesarrily fact.

1. How does that go against Marethari being a good person at heart? She's a mage and a good person, it's as simple as that.

2. That wasn't fan interpretation, that was directly from Merrill's loyaylty companion quest. Have you even done it?

Modifié par wulfsturm, 28 mars 2011 - 07:40 .

[Talladarr]

The Angry One wrote...
What the damn PRIDE DEMON tells us is not necesarrily fact.

If we're taking lying into acccount, maybe the ENTIRE situation is hearse, afterall, the whoole game is Varric telling a story!

[The Angry One]

wulfsturm wrote...

1. How does that go against Marethari being a good person at heart? She's a mage and a good person, it's as simple as that.

She's also arrogant and impulsive, presuming she knew exactly what the demon would do and that there was no other way.

2. That wasn't fan interpretation, that was directly from Merrill's loyaylty quest. Have you even done it?

No, it's what a demon who can't be trusted says. There's no evidence to suggest Merril couldn't have found a way to outsmart or overcome the demon herself.

[The Angry One]

iOnlySignIn wrote..

Well, if that is true, then it proves that the demon/spirit's intentions are nefarious, so that Merrill should not have made deals with it, and that Marethari made the right decision to intervene.

Well, it's a demon. Of course it has ulterior motives, and Merril would know that.
Merril never claims that the demon is genuine.

[wulfsturm]

Talladarr wrote...

If we're taking lying into acccount, maybe the ENTIRE situation is hearse, afterall, the whoole game is Varric telling a story!

There is that. For all we know, it was a war between kittens and bunny rabbits. We all know that scheming hairy rogue is a compulsive liar.

[The Angry One]

wulfsturm wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

If we're taking lying into acccount, maybe the ENTIRE situation is hearse, afterall, the whoole game is Varric telling a story!

There is that. For all we know, it was a war between kittens and bunny rabbits. We all know that scheming hairy rogue is a compulsive liar.

Yes well that's the flaw of having a story framed by a braggart.

[Talladarr]

Just to clerify, "Demons" only exist from the Chantry's point of view(Which is FAR too close to the christian point of veiw for comfort for me)! To the Dalish they're all SPIRITS, and NONE of them are to be trusts, "Demon" or not.

[Glorfindel709]

Talladarr wrote...

Just to clerify, "Demons" only exist from the Chantry's point of view(Which is FAR too close to the christian point of veiw for comfort for me)! To the Dalish they're all SPIRITS, and NONE of them are to be trusts, "Demon" or not.

But but! We can trust the spirit of JUSTICE!!! Hurray!!!!




Haroo....

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 28 mars 2011 - 07:45 .

[TobiTobsen]

Talladarr wrote...

Just to clerify, "Demons" only exist from the Chantry's point of view(Which is FAR too close to the christian point of veiw for comfort for me)! To the Dalish they're all SPIRITS, and NONE of them are to be trusts, "Demon" or not.

Pretty health POV if you ask me. Just look at Justice. Justice isn't friendly, even when he is still a spirit and not Vengance aka a demon.

[Deztyn]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Which we don't see. That's the problem of the presentation or what Bioware wanted us to see to give us another viewpoint after the magefriendly DAO. Somehow they had to ... ahaha "demonize" the mages. So all we get to see are (to quote somebody else here on the forum. Forgot who) Bloodmages, Abominations and Bethany

Me!

"DA2 has taught me Kirkwall mages only come in three flavors. Blood Mage. Abomination. Bethany."
And it took me way too long to find that, I must have posted in two dozen threads today.

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Meanwhile,
the story makes out to turn the Templars into demons. Mages are
threatened with sexual abuse, the "tranquil solution", and in general
being sadists. There are three named Templars who are not complete
sadists or sycophants - Keran, Thrask, and Cullen. Every other named
Templar is a mage hating sadist (or Qunari hating sadist in the case of
Varnell), and the random templars in the background are either just fine
following orders they know are wrong, or are too timid to say anything
against it. .

I don't disagree with you Glorfindel, the conflict really wasn't balanced at all.

But I wanted to point out we also have Emeric, Original Carver, Samson, arguably Wesley, the Templar recruits whose names I forget, even poor Wilmod we first meet as an abomination-- Cullen mentions he thought that he went off to visit mage friends.

Named Bad templars are Karras, Varnell, Alrik and Meredith (Who still comes off as sympathetic but insane rather than 'evil')

Compare that to Grace, Idunna, Tarohne, Decimus, Quintan, Danarius, Hadriana, Gascard, Huon, Evelina, Orsino . . . and I have a feeling I'm forgetting others.

[wulfsturm]

The Angry One wrote...

She's also arrogant and impulsive, presuming she knew exactly what the demon would do and that there was no other way.

No, it's what a demon who can't be trusted says. There's no evidence to suggest Merril couldn't have found a way to outsmart or overcome the demon herself.

She was arrogant and impulsive...for telling someone she cares about that she was only harming herself and her clan? And that she was right in the end? She presumed well then, because the demon did exactly as she said it would. That's wisdom, not impulsivness.

A demon who can't be trusted says that it loves Merrill and hopes that she changes her ways? Huh? And considering here naivite, there's no evidence suggesting that Merrill would have been able to find a way to outsmart or overcome the demon herself.

This was taken from: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Night_Terrors about one of the side quests.
Found within the door labeled "Feynriel's Pride"
The following party members will betray Hawke when tempted by this demon:

• Fenris - Tempted by being given power enough to be an equal to the Tevinter mages.
  
• Merrill - Tempted by the offer of power enough to save and protect her people.
  
• Varric - Tempted by the offer of power to get back at his brother, Bartrand, for his betrayal in the Deep Roads.
  

Clearly, Merrill knows a lot about overcoming and outsmarting demons by herself. <_<

Modifié par wulfsturm, 28 mars 2011 - 07:50 .

[The Angry One]

wulfsturm wrote...

She was arrogant and impulsive...for telling someone she cares about that she was only harming herself and her clan? And that she was right in the end? She presumed well then, because the demon did exactly as she said it would. That's wisdom, not impulsivness.

Exactly as she said? It possessed her, not Merril. Nor did it use the mirror to escape the Fade or need to given Marethari's meddling. For all we know that was it's plan all along.

A demon who can't be trusted says that it loves Merrill and hopes that she changes her ways? Huh? And considering here naivite, there's no evidence suggesting that Merrill would have been able to find a way to outsmart or overcome the demon herself

Yeah it's not like Merril was in the Fade in proximity to a boy who's unusual power could make a demon's influence super-strong or anything.. owait.

Modifié par The Angry One, 28 mars 2011 - 07:54 .

[Glorfindel709]

See, my deal is I wouldnt define Samson as a good templar. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he was passing mages into the hands of slavers and did not feel sorry for it. Wesley we don't know enough about and the same goes for those briefly named recruits, we never heard about them again. In the same vein, I dont count Carver as a Templar because there are so many different possibilities for him that it's hard to say for what people he could be a Templar for. I'm sticking with canon Templars in my plot analysis.

Emeric, I will agree, was an amazing templar, he did his duty despite his age and the danger. I respect him for that.

But don't forget, we have those hunter kill squads of Templars creeping around Lowtown and the Docks led by that one Templar who is harrassing the families of Mages, AND all of the unnamed Templars standing around while those various bad templars are doing their thing. The Bulk of the Templars we get to see are mostly evil.

[Deztyn]

"There are three named Templars who are not complete sadists or sycophants"

That is the standard you were using.

Samson was a lyrium addled loser, but he was trying to help apostates escape, and genuinely seemed to feel sympathy for the kids.

Edit: And I meant the Carver our dear little bro was named after. Who helped dad escape and was apparently his pen pal.

Modifié par Deztyn, 28 mars 2011 - 07:57 .

[Khayness]

The whole Grace questline is the purest example of Plot Induced Stupidity and railroading you into awesome inducing button pressing, regardless of choices in DA2.

Baaaad writing, thanks to rushed development.