147 réponses à ce sujet

[Emperor Iaius I]

The Angry One wrote...

.... actually, if you're going to blame Kirkwall for this... what the hell is Decimus and Grace's excuse then? They're from Starkhaven.

Hey, if love turned Skywalker into Vader, then a little blood magic here and there isn't so far fetched.

I just wanted to be their friends and they attacked me. Why.

[wulfsturm]

The Angry One wrote...


Exactly as she said? It possessed her, not Merril. For all we know that was it's plan all along.

Yeah it's not like Merril was in the Fade in proximity to a boy who's unusual power could make a demon's influence super-strong or anything.. owait.

It possessed her because it was she wanted it to possess her. And although I won't pretend to know the motivations of a pride demon, it doesn't make sense that it would go through all of this trouble to help Merrill commit blood magic so that it could possess an older, aparently less powerfull elf in the end.

And yes, being in proximity to Feynriel must have influenced the fade and Merrill in it to betray her leader and her entire team for an ultimately empty promise.

Yes, that must be it.

It had nothing to do with Merrill's pride of her abilities, nope.

Modifié par wulfsturm, 28 mars 2011 - 08:00 .

[The Angry One]

wulfsturm wrote...

It possessed her because it was she wanted it to possess her.

And I'm saying there's every reason in the world to suspect the demon played her into wanting it.

And although I won't pretend to know the motivations of a pride demon, it doesn't make sense that it would go through all of this trouble to help Merrill commit blood magic so that it could possess an older, aparently less powerfull elf in the end.

Perhaps less powerful, but more knowledgable, and in charge of a whole clan while Merril leads exactly nothing. Pride, remember.

And yes, being in proximity to Feynriel must have influenced the fade and Merrill in it to betray her leader and her entire team for an ultimately empty promise.

Yes, that must be it.

Yes, like everyone except the abomination of the group does if paired with the right demon.
Do you think it coincidence?

[Talladarr]

Now now, being condescending doesn't help anyone

[Emperor Iaius I]

erm.

Why do we assume a demon trapped in a statue (and unreachable in the Fade, apparently?) could even use the eluvian (which isn't in the cave) to begin with?

Why do we listen to an abomination who--just moments later--pretends to be Marethari unpossessed, and then stabs Merrill? It has nothing to do with treating everything as a potential lie: we see the abomination lie. Also, y'know, demons tend to lie to people in order to possess them. It's sort of what they do.

As for Merrill in the Fade: there's a difference between letting YOURSELF be possessed and making a deal with a demon. The Warden/Hawke can do the latter several times, but always fights off demons who try to possess him/her. Merrill's already noted that spirits are not to be trusted and that possession ought to be avoided.

I mean, what on earth does the Fade sequence prove? That she's willing to work with a demon? Congratulations, we knew that from the moment we saw her. Now what? It is not dispositive in the least when it comes to possession.

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 28 mars 2011 - 08:03 .

[Ruben Thomas]

Grace is one of the few mages I really regret saving, I knew she was a **** immediately when I met her and she made it really really clear she doesn't care about anyone's life, but her own.

I ended up lying and letting her go free, because I didn't want to kill the templars (in this case) and I thought Kerras was rather cruel.

I do have to agree with the sentiment of some here though, her plot armor is really annoying, she's one of the mages in the game I immediately felt was going to be trouble. I wish I could have simply chosen to fight her for being a blood mage like I did with Decimus.

[The Angry One]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

erm.

Why do we assume a demon trapped in a statue (and unreachable in the Fade, apparently?) could even use the eluvian (which isn't in the cave) to begin with?

Why do we listen to an abomination who--just moments later--pretends to be Marethari unpossessed, and then stabs Merrill? It has nothing to do with treating everything as a potential lie: we see the abomination lie. Also, y'know, demons tend to lie to people in order to possess them. It's sort of what they do.

As for Merrill in the Fade: there's a difference between letting YOURSELF be possessed and making a deal with a demon. The Warden/Hawke can do the latter several times, but always fights off demons who try to possess him/her. Merrill's already noted that spirits are not to be trusted and that possession ought to be avoided.

I mean, what on earth does the Fade sequence prove? That she's willing to work with a demon? Congratulations, we knew that from the moment we saw her. Now what? It is not dispositive in the least when it comes to possession.

You speak the truth.
Now if only you weren't a scary Tevinter.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Why do you think I'm so fond of that adorable little maleficar?

[wulfsturm]

The Angry One wrote...

And I'm saying there's every reason in the world to suspect the demon played her into wanting it.

Perhaps less powerful, but more knowledgable, and in charge of a whole clan while Merril leads exactly nothing. Pride, remember.

Yes, like everyone except the abomination of the group does if paired with the right demon.
Do you think it coincidence?

What reason? What proof is there that Marethari was being influenced by a demon, and not making her own decisions?

And so why did the demon help Merrill in the first place, and not Marethari? Merrill could have easily led the clan as second in command if something were to happen to Marethari.

I think it's a plot device, not coincidence, but even so I'm not arguing that the rest of the group wern't faultless as well. And technically, Anders isn't an abomination.

[Talladarr]

wulfsturm wrote...
And technically, Anders isn't an abomination.

Have we been playign a different game? Anders is ONE HUNDRED% Abomination!

[wulfsturm]

Talladarr wrote...

Have we been playign a different game? Anders is ONE HUNDRED% Abomination!

Well, I guess technically that would make Wynne an abomination as well.

[The Angry One]

wulfsturm wrote...

What reason? What proof is there that Marethari was being influenced by a demon, and not making her own decisions?

The proof is that the demon's plan as stated is absurd and unlikely, and everything Marethari says in that cave is said while under the influence of the demon and so isn't trustworthy.

And so why did the demon help Merrill in the first place, and not Marethari? Merrill could have easily led the clan as second in command if something were to happen to Marethari.

Because Marethari has no interest in restoring the mirror and wants it destroyed. Merril does, so it gets involved with Merril and THAT is what will draw in Marethari.

I think it's a plot device, not coincidence, but even so I'm not arguing that the rest of the group wern't faultless as well. And technically, Anders isn't an abomination.

A Fade being inhabits him and influences his actions. It's not as overt as with demons but it's still an abomination.
Technically Wynne is an abomination too.

[Talladarr]

wulfsturm wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Have we been playign a different game? Anders is ONE HUNDRED% Abomination!

Well, I guess technically that would make Wynne an abomination as well.

No, you see, Anders CHOSE to bond with Justice-turned-Vengence. Wynne was simply aided by the Spirit, it didn't bond ot her. It remained in the Fade while Justice resided within Anders. COMPLETELY different situation

[TobiTobsen]

wulfsturm wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Have we been playign a different game? Anders is ONE HUNDRED% Abomination!

Well, I guess technically that would make Wynne an abomination as well.

Oh she is. No doubt about that. Her spirit/demon is just more content with sitting back, keeping her alive and just power her spells from time to time.

Anders spirit turned demon is more "I AM THE LAW". Fits the whole justice/lawful neutral mantra better

[The Angry One]

Talladarr wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Have we been playign a different game? Anders is ONE HUNDRED% Abomination!

Well, I guess technically that would make Wynne an abomination as well.

No, you see, Anders CHOSE to bond with Justice-turned-Vengence. Wynne was simply aided by the Spirit, it didn't bond ot her. It remained in the Fade while Justice resided within Anders. COMPLETELY different situation

Untrue, the Faith spirit did merge with Wynne when she was at the point of death.
The problem is the merger caused the spirit to start dying.

[Ruben Thomas]

TobiTobsen wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Have we been playign a different game? Anders is ONE HUNDRED% Abomination!

Well, I guess technically that would make Wynne an abomination as well.

Oh she is. No doubt about that. Her spirit/demon is just more content with sitting back, keeping her alive and just power her spells from time to time.

Anders spirit turned demon is more "I AM THE LAW". Fits the whole justice/lawful neutral mantra better

No Wynne is not an abomination, a mage who is aided by or collaborates with a spirit of the fade in order to use its powers to heal is called a spirit healer. They're very different things.

http://dragonage.wik...i/Spirit_Healer

[TobiTobsen]

Ruben Thomas wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Have we been playign a different game? Anders is ONE HUNDRED% Abomination!

Well, I guess technically that would make Wynne an abomination as well.

Oh she is. No doubt about that. Her spirit/demon is just more content with sitting back, keeping her alive and just power her spells from time to time.

Anders spirit turned demon is more "I AM THE LAW". Fits the whole justice/lawful neutral mantra better

No Wynne is not an abomination, a mage who is aided by or collaborates with a spirit of the fade in order to use its powers to heal is called a spirit healer. They're very different things.

http://dragonage.wik...i/Spirit_Healer

The spirit merged with her when she was dying. She is more than just a spirit healer. She is the abomination variant of the spirit healer.

[Talladarr]

Precisely. Colaborating with spirits and being possessed/bonding with a spirit is completely different. Y oucan collaborate with spirits all oyu want in DA:O, but yo unever get possessed.

[The Angry One]

Talladarr wrote...

Precisely. Colaborating with spirits and being possessed/bonding with a spirit is completely different. Y oucan collaborate with spirits all oyu want in DA:O, but yo unever get possessed.

Wynne did get possessed after Ostagar, she sustained mortal wounds there and the spirit could only save her by merging with her.

[Glorfindel709]

To be fair, the general understanding of an abomination is a mage who is no longer themselves, having been fully integrated and taken over by the Demon.

Wynne is remarkably different, especially from Anders, that while she is co-habiting a body with the Spirit of Faith, it has not merged with her mind, influenced her action, or is able to take control of her body like Vengence is or any demon who inhabits a body.
~~~~~~~~~

Angry One, she technically recieved those mortal wounds in the Circle Tower defending Petra from a Rage Demon.

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 28 mars 2011 - 08:23 .

[Talladarr]

I must have missed that part of the conversation/codex because I don't remember that

[wulfsturm]

I'll just leave this here:

An abomination is a broad term for the result of a demon possessing a living human, qunari or elf. While mages stand the greatest chance of being possessed, as they draw their magic from the Fade, it is made clear that any elf or human is a potential host. The ritual of Harrowing employed by the Circle of Magi
results in abominations from time to time. While it is theoretically
possible to free someone who has been possessed, it has never been done,
mostly because of the risk involved in such an attempt—it is much safer
to utterly destroy the creature. There was, perhaps, one exception to
this rule however, when a Grey Warden enlisted the aid of the Fereldenmages in order to enter the Fade and attempt to save the son of the Arl ofRedcliffe, when he was possessed by a Desire Demon during the events of the Fifth Blight.

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Abomination

Modifié par wulfsturm, 28 mars 2011 - 08:23 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

wulf, why do you trust what the Marebomination says but criticize the entire party for trusting the empty promises of the Fade demon?

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 28 mars 2011 - 08:32 .

[The Angry One]

I'll just leave this here:

Point being? Demons and spirits are the same type of being.

Modifié par The Angry One, 28 mars 2011 - 08:25 .

[The Angry One]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

To be fair, the general understanding of an abomination is a mage who is no longer themselves, having been fully integrated and taken over by the Demon.

Wynne is remarkably different, especially from Anders, that while she is co-habiting a body with the Spirit of Faith, it has not merged with her mind, influenced her action, or is able to take control of her body like Vengence is or any demon who inhabits a body.

Which is why Wynne is only technically an abomination.

Angry One, she technically recieved those mortal wounds in the Circle Tower defending Petra from a Rage Demon.

Oh yes, I misremembered that part.

Modifié par The Angry One, 28 mars 2011 - 08:26 .