192 réponses à ce sujet

[Boronion]

Tripedius wrote...

The story has about as much focus as Justin Bieber has musical talent. .

Even for DA2 haters, that is a bit too harsh. Even Street Fighter XXXXV would have more focus and talent then Justin Bieber.

But i can understand, why some dislike the DA 2 storyline and like the DA:O story.
The thing that makes DA2 a great game for me, is the more personal story than the epic one in DA:O.
And since my mother passed away a few months ago, i can really get myself into Hawle and the personal matters.
Loosing brother/sister and mother later on.
It is always a subjective matter if you like or dislike a story.
I am sure there are people out there, who think the Jackass movies have a great story. While others would only think

Modifié par Boronion, 28 mars 2011 - 01:26 .

[sheppard7]

The seeker asking about doing all that for coin in Act 1 was actually a valid question. Act 2 was the best part of the game.

[Anariel Theirin]

Foolsfolly wrote...

So what you're saying is the main focus of the game is: escalation, family, death, loss, madness, and uncertainty? That's the focus? It's a shattershot about everything you can come up with. The plot's also about dragons, and elves, and mirrors; because you know those are in the game too.

No.

The plot is about the war between the Templars and Mages.

From the first act on you meet mages and templars who are good and bad. One of the first characters you meet is your sister, an apostate. The first non-companion you meet is a Templar who immediately is hostile to your sister (and you if you're a mage). This hatred is so powerful that Wesley's willing to make something of this despite being badly hurt and everyone on the run from the Blight. He only backs down because of Aveline.

There. Right at the beginning they show you the central conflict and remind the player that apostates and Templars do not get along.

When you arrive in Kirkwall the first thing you see are the Gallows, a slave prison converted into the Circle. You see the bronze statues of torment and slavery, the walls are decorated with the mournful existence of the Tevinter slaves. This is where slaves were brought in and housed, and this is where the Mages of Kirkwall are stuck in.

It doesn't take long at all to come across the mage/templar problem in the game, one early example being with the half-elf mage who's a dreamer on the run from the Templars. You have Grace and her mages who've escaped from the Circle in Starkhaven and there's the fact that your sister constantly mentions how being a mage is a burden. If you're brother is alive instead he comments constantly on mages too, just in a more petty way.

There's the fact that Anders' location and abilities are a secret, one that people are willing to die for. People speak in hushed tones about mages constantly, the half-elf's father being vague and evasive until you show him you're a friend of mages, for example.

Then there's the fact that of your companions you have the Wife of a Templar, a Circle Mage Warden Abomination, a Blood Mage First, a slave to Tevinter Mages, and a Prince who's devoted to the Chantry. All these characters have direct ties to the mage question and will all have sides of the argument that they agree with.

Varric is neutral to everyone. Dog's not a true companion. And Isabela cares only for herself and is after her book.

And then there's the fact that the entire third act solely revolves around this issue. The fact that the finale rests with the first battle of the revolution.

Sorry, OP. You can pull all the side quest elements you want out and say the story's about those things, but it's really about the Mages/Templars. Even Cassandra comes to Varric to find out what role Hawke had in the revolution, not about the family (which is dusted off completely mid-way through act 2) or about characters escalating things (which isn't a theme that's the definition of plot). It's about the mage/templar war.

Now the game's pace is such that it moves at the speed of frozen sap down a tree trunk. It's fineish in the first act since that's showing you the world and the fears and prejudices of the that world. Fine.

But we need to meet the major players of this plot. We need to meet Meredith and Orisino early on so we can develop feelings for these characters and their plights. This time can now be spent evolving the characters as the timeline moves closer and closer to that war.

This doesn't happen. We barely meet the groups involved. We never step foot in the Circle despite it and its treatment of the Mages being central to the plot.

Despite showing us the world and its connections, Act 1 forwards nothing to the plot. It's just a few mages and Templar who show up multiple times throughout the game. The entire Act 2 finale also shows the tension between the Knight-Commander and First Enchanter when they only stop fighting Qunari to fight among themselves over who should be in charge.

Qunari also have a unique view point of how to treat mages, they treat them like caged animals because of their danger. That's a key thing to how Meredith treats all mages as blood mages until proven otherwise, because of the danger. The qunari and Templar place is similar in this vein.

But the pacing is all wrong. You grab an Idol for no reason other than a nice out for Meredith being nuts later. You deliver pants and necklaces to nameless NPCs for 50 silver. You kill minor lordlings for the Red Irons.

There are many many quests that allude and underscore the main plot, but the actual main quest is absent. We don't meet the main players early enough, they don't change, we don't get to know them, we don't get to see both sides of the argument from their perspectives (We're always an outsider to everything), and in the end it doesn't even matter since a completely useless Idol made Meredith do it and insanity and demons made the mages do it.

See how that's a disconnect from the plot? See how unfocused the game is on that plot. It goes out of its way to show you the problem, but the pacing doesn't allow for any meaningful growth from those characters. And then without knowing the situation first hand or knowing the players to that situation you're forced to pick one....and kill both because of outside influences that have nothing to do with the plot.

Had the pacing been better, had we met Meredith and Orsino early on, and had an idol/demon not been involved then we'd have a better story. Then the story would be about humans doing what they believe: Meredith believing the majority has the right to be safe and Orsino believing mages have the right to be treated as innocent until proven corrupt.

Then the choice to pick would be meaningful. Then there'd be a point to both sides of the argument.

But as is, it's a poorly paced uneven rushed game. Where the finale leaves a sour spot in your mind because all the actions of these characters is stripped away because of outside influences. That and Hawke never has a goal to work forward to for this plot, unless you say Bethany or yourself. But there's no hard goal for this plot. Characters act, and Hawke reacts. That makes Hawke boring because he's a reactive hero instead of a proactive hero. Maybe if Hawke had a goal in this whole thing and maybe did something to prevent or cause the war that would help.

Nice try, OP. But the players aren't the problem with this plot.

 I love everything you said here.  This is a perfect explanation of exactly what I mean when I say the story had potential, but was poorly executed.

[allanon10101a]

I think people are looking at this the wrong way. DA2 is not an RPG in the same sense DA:O was. DA:O, you're writing your destiny for a story that hasn't been told yet. DA2 is the retelling of the rise of Hawke to become the Champion of Kirkwall from Hawke's perspective. Their storyline has been laid out to show events as he saw them. You complain there was very little depth gone into with the first Act, and then there was no real choice involved in the final act. But that is how a retelling would indeed go. You aren't really making decisions, you are simply discovering how the decisions made influence others, and what the character did along the way, as the story progresses to reach a specific end. I agree, it is not the best way to do an RPG game, but it is true to what they set out to achieve, and there is undoubtedly a reason they did it that way

Act 1: he's grinding for cash in the hopes of investing in an expedition that he hopes will restore his family's lost fortunes. All the quests are essentially aimed at that - gaining loot - and introducing the characters that will make up the party and major plot-lines later on. No real depth to it, just as it would have been from Hawk's point of view. They were random encounters whilst he was working to another goal. The idol was a random find that would prove to be important later, but for now it simply demonstrates that it is capable of making people act irrationally and against their nature.

Act 2: Idol found, family fortunes restored. Now begins the Qunari and the Mage/Templar story-lines. Qunari are naffed off because they're stuck in Kirkwall whilst they hunt for something, and Kirkwall doesn't live up to their expectations. Mages are being overly oppressed by the Knight Commander who has taken her normal oppressive outlook and is pushing it to the extreme due to the influence of the idol. Mages start to turn to Blood Magic for the power to escape the oppression (note: vast majority of blood mages in Kirkwall start to appear after idol found, not before. Maybe things are getting worse? Guess why). Goes into a little more depth this time around, as the character is more involved in the events as an established local, rather than being an outsider who is just trying to scrape up enough cash for something. He is starting to get involved in the realities of being a major player in his new home.

Act 3: He came, he saw, he conquered. He's the big cheese now, and with that comes the responsibility. In the major political conflict going on atm, both sides turn to him in the hope of attaining his influence as a result. However, that idol is still there influencing Merideth, and that continues to pressure the mages to act irresponsibly. The mage Anders, influenced by the perverted spirit Vengence, sees the injustice of Meredith's actions and decides that enough is enough. Decides to remove compromise as an option in order to prevent the situation from possibly occurring again. This works, as Meredith is officially a loon by now thanks to the idol. She overreacts and instead of punishing the guilty party (an apostate, not even part of the circle. I mean, come on, that's gotta be an overreaction) decides to punish the innocents, acting far beyond the bounds of her position. Orsino eventually respond to this in desperation, and resorts to blood magic himself, using the research of the mage who killed Hawke's mother (who was, pretty obviously, a master of the craft). Blah de blah, battle, Orsino flips out (hey, we all have our breaking points, not like he didn't have good cause), then the cause for Meredith's insanity is finally revealed. Battle again, game over.

The point is, each act has clearly defined perspective. It goes into as much detail as would be likely to be experienced from Hawke's point of view at the time, and no more. Life isn't one huge quest, it's a lot of little ones, and each one has a story attached to it, but eventually, we only have one present, and that is what the game was intended to bring you to. It was not a single quest like DA:O was. There was never any single enemy that had to be defeated at all costs. It was the retelling of a life over the course of 8 years, and some of the things that affected it. DA2 was an attempt at something a little different, and you are all judging it based on the normal RPG format. Perhaps it's time to step back and look at it from a different angle, and try and see it for what it really is?

[Sononabestia]

Let's say this first. Before I started playing it for the second time, Dragon Age 2 felt like an awesome game.
Then I found out that most of the stuff I thought I decided on my own was going to happen anyway. Example: I let DePuis alive, and thought Hawke's mother was killed because of that.. Then I found out she was meant to die anyway. That was rather sad.
Another bad thing is for example the fact that Bethany / Carver at the end of the first act will ALWAYS leave the party..
Finding out this kind of things kinda killed the game to me: I thought the choices were actually very important, and then I found out everything would happen anyway, with more or less logical explainations.

I do second what Foolsfolly says: while the Grey Warden was always focused on the quest, the Champion wasn't really that involved, and at the end he was forced to take parts even if he didn't want, even if he was a lucky Ferelden refugee. I would have liked to be able to just help Bethany get out of the mess and side with the city guard, for example.

[Dussan2]

It's so clear the game was rushed. From reading the codex entries on Kirkwall I get the sense that Darktown was supposed to be much more involved as was the outlying areas of Kirkwall. And did the subplot about becoming viscount go anywhere?

[BanditGR]

The point is, each act has clearly defined perspective. It goes into as much detail as would be likely to be experienced from Hawke's point of view at the time, and no more. Life isn't one huge quest, it's a lot of little ones, and each one has a story attached to it, but eventually, we only have one present, and that is what the game was intended to bring you to. It was not a single quest like DA:O was. There was never any single enemy that had to be defeated at all costs. It was the retelling of a life over the course of 8 years, and some of the things that affected it. DA2 was an attempt at something a little different, and you are all judging it based on the normal RPG format. Perhaps it's time to step back and look at it from a different angle, and try and see it for what it really is?

But we agree that each act was more or less self contained and could have easily been released as its own dragon age game and none would be the wiser. The thing is this sort of narrative storytelling isn't something breath taking and for me at least, it certainly isn't an improvement over the normal RPG format. What point is there anyway, in playing an RPG, if you are actually reliving events and your choices don't really affect anything other than how a few people react. Even the illusion of a choice would have been better than being slapped with the fact that "this is what happened, now go ahead and tell us how". In all honesty, no one cares. Knowing the ending of a book, makes it far less attractive to go through. Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed the game for what it is, but I'm not going to delude myself into believing that this is a step in the right direction, no matter how I look at it. It's more like a sidestep to the same direction (or a slightly wrong one).

Modifié par BanditGR, 28 mars 2011 - 02:19 .

[dreman9999]

Fix1o0 wrote...

The narrative themes tie almost all the quests together

Your lost garbage, serah.

Like you really have to do side quest.

[dreman9999]

BanditGR wrote...

The point is, each act has clearly defined perspective. It goes into as much detail as would be likely to be experienced from Hawke's point of view at the time, and no more. Life isn't one huge quest, it's a lot of little ones, and each one has a story attached to it, but eventually, we only have one present, and that is what the game was intended to bring you to. It was not a single quest like DA:O was. There was never any single enemy that had to be defeated at all costs. It was the retelling of a life over the course of 8 years, and some of the things that affected it. DA2 was an attempt at something a little different, and you are all judging it based on the normal RPG format. Perhaps it's time to step back and look at it from a different angle, and try and see it for what it really is?

But we agree that each act was more or less self contained and could have easily been released as its own dragon age game and none would be the wiser. The thing is this sort of narrative storytelling isn't something breath taking and for me at least, it certainly isn't an improvement over the normal RPG format. What point is there anyway, in playing an RPG, if you are actually reliving events and your choices don't really affect anything other than how a few people react. Even the illusion of a choice would have been better than being slapped with the fact that "this is what happened, now go ahead and tell us how". In all honesty, no one cares. Knowing the ending of a book, makes it far less attractive to go through. Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed the game for what it is, but I'm not going to delude myself into believing that this is a step in the right direction, no matter how I look at it. It's more like a sidestep to the same direction (or a slightly wrong one).

Ah ....the choice agrument...... Alway used all the time but never understood....The way choice is done in DA2 is the same as DA:O.  Some big event comes up and you have to choose, big or small.  With DA:O you have a blight coming but you have no way to avoid it and you have to face it, simlar to the qunari rebellion and the mage/templer war. What stands out from from DA:O is that your building and army.....But you have to deal with the unavoidable conflict with the people your getting for your army. That also can't be avoided. Though I agree, DA:O has more choices than DA2, but most or all of them don't have any influnce in the game, while most of DA2 choice does......
Anyone else feels like the the kettle is calling the pot black here?

[LadyJaneGrey]

Smart-a** response: Varric isn't as good a story-teller as he think he is.

Serious response: great arguments from Foolsfolly and Curlain.  In the first and second acts I could usually justify my Hawke's actions and motivations.  When the third act cut scene started, I couldn't figure out why Hawke was still in Kirkwall and why the mage/templar confrontation should be her problem.  Her mother is dead, her sister's off with the Grey Wardens, she's told her companions in previous acts she wants to leave, and the templars are taking over while the Grand Cleric refuses to do anything.  It stopped being my Hawke's story and started being "complete everything in the journal so Bioware can finish making their point."

I enjoy the game for the many elements it got right,  but I don't think "enjoying a game while simultaneously being irritated" is what Bioware should aim for.

Edited for spelling

Modifié par LadyJaneGrey, 28 mars 2011 - 02:43 .

[Siegdrifa]

I still agree with a OP.

Lot of sub quest are not random, they often involve mages and templars to show the growing tension between them. Each are a pice of the puzzle for act3 and their fight.

I find Act1 to make sens. You arrive in a new city, you have no money, you pick every job you can.
Your main objective at that point is getting money to go out of the slum for your family's sake, and the expedition is the fastest way to suceed.

Act2 make you the hero of kirkwall, too fast IMO, not enough main quest in this chapter.

The only purpuse i see in making hawke the hero of kirkwall is to force you to take side for one faction in act 3, why? because the hero opinion matter, lot of people look up to you, not the opinion of random guy in lowtown.
I find Act3 making more sens when remembering everything that appened during side quest between mages and templars, this matters started years ago.

I'm not a big fan of subquest package instead of a long and real story, but i find most of DA2 subquest important for the main plot devloppement.

DAO was a game where you could influence the outcome, everything you did, everything you said matters.
DA2, you are more an "observer", you can't stop the mages and templars war, you can't convince Meredith or Orcino to find a solution. You can't stop the Qunnari.
It was .... frustrating ....
I do not hate it but... i hope Bioware doesn't plan on making too much game like this, the outcome is a tragedy and nothing can make you stop it. What the point of playing an RPG when what i say or do doesn't matter for the story ?

Still i'm intrested to see what DA3 will do. Thedas seems to be politicaly collapsing from everywhere, dark times ahead.
DA3 should justify DA2 forced story, and if not, then DA2 tragedy would be a total waste of time.

[Evolution33]

The story is very focused thematically which is far more literary than most video games dare to get. The plot is the story of Hawke's time in Kirkwall where Hawke didn't spend his time focusing on one thing. Instead he did many different things. There are many literary works that just tell the story of a single person and all the stuff they did even if that stuff doesn't form an overarching single minded plot. Hawke's goals are to use the skills he has to make his mother's life better and to protect himself and/or his sibling. The deep roads expedition is just a means to an end. The end of course being money, but in order to embark on that expedition Hawke needs to do some jobs for people to get money. They could have made Hawke's main skill painting instead of ass kicking and then Hawke could have painted some houses to earn the money he needed, but that isn't a very fun game. The second Act Hawke is seen as a go getter that isn't connected to the city in anyway so if things go wrong the Viscount can disavow all knowledge of his existence. By the end of Act 2 Hawke is the champion and now the second most important person in the city and Hawke's voice has some power so it is no surprise that when the conflict of Mage's vs. Templers start bubbling over Hawke is a person that the city turns to. The goals change throughout the story but there are always the themes in the background that tie everything together. It was a risk for Bioware to try and do a story that is far more artistic than anything they have tried before and at some points I am not sure the writers fully achieved the lofty goals they set for themselves. There are weaknesses in the story and sometimes these things aren't explained well enough so that everyone that plays the game can understand what is going on or why it is going on. Bioware has some very talented writers, but this type of endevour might not have been their calling, but hopefully they can improve on it and continue in this more artistic direction and make even better games and stories in the future.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Siegdrifa wrote...
I still agree with a OP.

Lot of sub quest are not random, they often involve mages and templars to show the growing tension between them. Each are a pice of the puzzle for act3 and their fight.
...
The only purpuse i see in making hawke the hero of kirkwall is to force you to take side for one faction in act 3, why? because the hero opinion matter, lot of people look up to you, not the opinion of random guy in lowtown.
I find Act3 making more sens when remembering everything that appened during side quest between mages and templars, this matters started years ago.

While this is all true...my hero's opinion was "I no longer have a stake in this particular conflict; why am I still here?"   Maybe if Bioware had not gotten rid of her family, I'd have bought into it.

Edit:  I loved the themes explored and the idea of a more tragic fantasy story.  I just wish I could have also role-played all the way through it.

Modifié par LadyJaneGrey, 28 mars 2011 - 02:56 .

[Siegdrifa]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

I enjoy the game for the many elements it got right,  but I don't think "enjoying a game while simultaneously being irritated" is what Bioware should aim for.

Yeah, this is exactly how i felt... i enjoyed the game but was frustrated because the main plot outcome in fact don't care about what i do.
But i take that DA2 mainly serve the purpuse to bring a darker thedas. If it's the case, DA3 could be really intresting.... if it's not another subquest package.

[Siegdrifa]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...
I still agree with a OP.

Lot of sub quest are not random, they often involve mages and templars to show the growing tension between them. Each are a pice of the puzzle for act3 and their fight.
...
The only purpuse i see in making hawke the hero of kirkwall is to force you to take side for one faction in act 3, why? because the hero opinion matter, lot of people look up to you, not the opinion of random guy in lowtown.
I find Act3 making more sens when remembering everything that appened during side quest between mages and templars, this matters started years ago.

While this is all true...my hero's opinion was "I no longer have a stake in this particular conflict; why am I still here?"   Maybe if Bioware had not gotten rid of her family, I'd have bought into it.

 Yeah, definitly that, but i still had Bethany, and my imported game is a mage, so the cousin of Hawke, so i naturaly stood for mages... But i realy wanted to get the out of here.
In fact... now i start to like the idea that i killed them both.

That why i say the only reason for Meredith and Orsino to bother you is beacause you are the champion... and all the non official responsability that goes with the title...

[NeoGuardian86]

Txgoldrush


hey same name from Gamespot eh?

This is Saudifury if you remember me from the same threads on Gamespot.

[Addai]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I think this is the first time I've seen story focus defined as simply having a theme. It's usually applied to plot and having a main character with clearly defined goals and obstacles.

And I question the strength of the theme in Act 1 and Act 3. Act 1 has a large number of quests that have nothing to do with zealotry or extremism. Act 3 makes Meredith's actions the product of magical interference, not human nature.

The lyrium sword only intensifies Meredith's own inherent traits.  From the moment you step off the ship, the Gallows guards are talking about how Meredith runs the city.

[LoneStalker]

I agree with the OP, story is one of the things I really liked in DA2 and want to underline the uncertainity and change in goals during the story.

My two favourite games of all time, Fallout 2 and X-Wing Alliance relied on uncertainity and change in goals which are some reasons behind my favor on these games.
 
I'd never have guessed I was going to save the Wasteland from the Enclave in FO2, but there you go. Wandering thrugh the Wastes in search of a G.E.C.K. and you find yourself blowing a pre-war oil-rig. The end was a mind-blowing experience. Those two factors played an important factor in this splendid game. 

X-Wing Alliance on the other hand, started with the destruction of your home (or space station to be exact) by the Imperials and your joining to the rebel fleet for refuge and personal revenge. What was most satisfying about the game was it's missions, in most instances they changed dynamically during the mission. I still remember the mission your droid, Emkay, accidentally hyper-spaced you to an Imperial battlecruiser firing practice area. The dialogues were priceless.

There were some moments like these in DA2, how outcomes of some quests/decisions surprised me (or changed the quest completely) and wanted to see more of them infact. The effect wears off after seeing it for the first time but Leandra's quest in Act2 and the quest you first meet Fenris in Act1 are really good examples on this subject. 

[Addai]

BanditGR wrote...
But we agree that each act was more or less self contained and could have easily been released as its own dragon age game and none would be the wiser. The thing is this sort of narrative storytelling isn't something breath taking and for me at least, it certainly isn't an improvement over the normal RPG format. What point is there anyway, in playing an RPG, if you are actually reliving events and your choices don't really affect anything other than how a few people react. Even the illusion of a choice would have been better than being slapped with the fact that "this is what happened, now go ahead and tell us how". In all honesty, no one cares. Knowing the ending of a book, makes it far less attractive to go through. Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed the game for what it is, but I'm not going to delude myself into believing that this is a step in the right direction, no matter how I look at it. It's more like a sidestep to the same direction (or a slightly wrong one).

The acts were not self- contained, and represented a development in Hawke's character as well as a growing loss of control in the city.  As for no one caring, speak for yourself.

Why does it have to be a step in any direction, as though the writers can only choose one style ever that they have to stick with?  They wanted to do something different.  It's quite possible in the next game they'll do something completely different again.

[paufiero]

Kered10 said "I look at DA2 as being like book 2 in a trilogy, it's not as focused the first book but what is important is the fact that it sets out the groundwork for the next book in the series with possible plot lines hinted at, I can't wait to see how Leliana & Cassandra's task pans out"
After reading all of the post's to date i have to agree with this comment totally.
I love the series and hopefully they combine both stories in the next chapter.
The way the left it the champion really can't have a big impact, the only reason i see for bringing him/her back would be to stop the mage/ templar war. but the hero has many different stories and companions that can be continued. We see that with Leliana. so here is to hoping the next chapter ties things together and gives us another hanging ending so we can play DA4,5,6.........

[Arppis]

Funker Shepard wrote...

Nah, people subjectively don't like the game (whether through actually giving it a chance and not liking it, or IMO more commonly due to some EA/conspiracy theory/"it became popular so it sucks now" confirmation bias) and are trying to objectify their dislike through nebulous criticisms.

It happens quite a lot on the Internet, really.

This.

And when you like something, it is easier to forgive the flaws.

This happens with people too. When you get a negative emotional transfer to some person, you can't stand him/her no matter what and you are MUCH MORE critical at the person. But if you get positive emotional transfer, you can easily take crap from that person.

[Lord_Valandil]

I don't agree.
And I won't forgive the flaws and plot holes. Call me narrow minded, whatever, I can appreciate a good story when I see it. DA2 is not one. And not because some EA/Bioware conspiracy and trolling crap.
It just isn't. At least for me.

Cheers.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 28 mars 2011 - 03:44 .

[BanditGR]

Addai67 wrote...

BanditGR wrote...
But we agree that each act was more or less self contained and could have easily been released as its own dragon age game and none would be the wiser. The thing is this sort of narrative storytelling isn't something breath taking and for me at least, it certainly isn't an improvement over the normal RPG format. What point is there anyway, in playing an RPG, if you are actually reliving events and your choices don't really affect anything other than how a few people react. Even the illusion of a choice would have been better than being slapped with the fact that "this is what happened, now go ahead and tell us how". In all honesty, no one cares. Knowing the ending of a book, makes it far less attractive to go through. Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed the game for what it is, but I'm not going to delude myself into believing that this is a step in the right direction, no matter how I look at it. It's more like a sidestep to the same direction (or a slightly wrong one).

The acts were not self- contained, and represented a development in Hawke's character as well as a growing loss of control in the city.  As for no one caring, speak for yourself.

Why does it have to be a step in any direction, as though the writers can only choose one style ever that they have to stick with?  They wanted to do something different.  It's quite possible in the next game they'll do something completely different again.

They represented a development in Hawke's character ? Seriously ? Could have fooled me. More like they represented Hawke's rise to power, if anything. His character is largely irrelevant as to final outcome due to deus ex machinas such as Anders. As I already stated, Origins was very much similar to this, at the end of the day it didn't matter whether you chose Bhelen or Harrowmont, werewolves or elves etc, but you could shape the aftermath to a certain extend, when choosing how to deal with Anora/Alistair/Loghain and last but not least you could you know...die. Obviously, Bioware isn't in no way obligated to choose a specific storytelling style, what matters in the end is how effective that particular style is. If you truly feel that DA2 succeeded in that area better than Origins, then what can I say, more power to you.

Modifié par BanditGR, 28 mars 2011 - 03:47 .

[Gimsey]

Kered10 wrote...

I look at DA2 as being like book 2 in a trilogy, it's not as focused the first book but what is important is the fact that it sets out the groundwork for the next book in the series with possible plotlines hinted at, I can't wait to see how Leliana & Cassandra's task pans out

I had the same feeling as I played through DAII. I belive the southern lands will be in chaos in DAIII because of all the events that transpired in DAII.

[Addai]

BanditGR wrote...
They represented a development in Hawke's character ? Seriously ? Could have fooled me. More like they represented Hawke's rise to power, if anything.

Well what do you call that?  The personal impact on her of her change in status is something you need to work out for yourself.  That's roleplay.
 

His character is largely irrelevant as to final outcome due to deus ex machinas such as Anders.

I don't think that word means what you think it does.  A deus ex machina comes out of nowhere to change the plot.  Anders' story was one that built over the course of the game, and you could say it was building since Awakening. 

Obviously, Bioware isn't in no way obligated to choose a specific storytelling style, what matters in the end is how effective that particular style is. If you truly feel that DA2 succeeded in that area better than Origins, then what can I say, more power to you.

I prefer the Origins story, but think the writers did a remarkable job of advancing the story of Thedas while telling interesting sub-stories involving the characters, Hawke as well as others.  This is especially impressive because they had so little development time and less on-screen time to do it.

Modifié par Addai67, 28 mars 2011 - 04:19 .