41 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

I think the mages have a good chance to maintain their freedom, since the templars aren't taking orders and the Seekers have apparently broken free to hunt the mages. There's a severe fracture with the Chantry organization, and it's lack of unification works in the favor of the Circles of Magi looking to maintain their sovereignty.

[Dean_the_Young]

The .01% of the population that are the magi in rebellion either get a lucky out by circumstance and negotiate a surrender of sorts, or get steamrolled by most of the rest of the world. If not by the Templars out to subdue them, and if not by the Chantry who wants to reinstate balance, and if not by the largely non-magi-loving nations with Circles, and if not by the population at large...

Then by the Qunari.

[LobselVith8]

0.1 %? Why do you assume there's only a small percentage of mages when we hear in DA2 that there are more mages than ever before?

And since the templars aren't taking orders, why do you think the Chantry will command them, Dean? And since Gentivi acknowledged the Circle of Magi as the greatest advantage the Chantry lead forces had during the New Exalted Marches, why do you think the Qunari would defeat them when their mages' skills are inferior in comparison?

[Camenae]

The outcome of the Mage/Templar war will be making Thedas ripe for a takeover. : ( I bet the Qunari and/or the Tevinter Imperium and whoever else can't believe their luck. It would be the easiest thing in the world to wait till the infighting dies down and then sweep in to mop up the "winning" side.

[Vicious]

As I wondered in another thread, what authority do the Templars have once they break from the Chantry? All their authority came from the Chantry and Thedas's religion.

So you've got a bunch of hedge mages and a bunch of hedge knights running around trying to kill every mage in sight? Because it sounds kinda dumb.


The only outcome I see is a massive tearing of the veil through Thedas because of all the magic being used.

[Dean_the_Young]

LobselVith8 wrote...

0.1 %? Why do you assume there's only a small percentage of mages when we hear in DA2 that there are more mages than ever before?

The nature of population growth. Duh.

Mages, as a number, can grow. Unless they reproduce much faster than the population at large, their actual percentage of the population drops. The two concepts, a small percentage and a growing minoirity population, are not mutually exclusive: mages are reproducing, but so is the non-magical population.,

In fact, by virtue of sheer size and the lack of anti-childbirth policies, the non-magical population would have to be undergoing a catastrophe to not be growing at far greater rates than the mages, decreasing their percentage even more.

And since the templars aren't taking orders, why do you think the Chantry will command them, Dean?

Strawman. I didn't say the Chantry would command them.

And since Gentivi acknowledged the Circle of Magi as the greatest advantage the Chantry lead forces had during the New Exalted Marches, why do you think the Qunari would defeat them when their mages' skills are inferior in comparison?

...are you ****ting me?

[Ingu]

...maybe a Qunari invastion will make everyone love each other again after they fight battles together side-by-side, negating prejudices in said process and making lasting friendships etc etc. = =

[LobselVith8]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

0.1 %? Why do you assume there's only a small percentage of mages when we hear in DA2 that there are more mages than ever before?

The nature of population growth. Duh.

There's no statistical information to gauge that as an accurate estimate of how many mages there are to people without magical ability, though.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mages, as a number, can grow. Unless they reproduce much faster than the population at large, their actual percentage of the population drops. The two concepts, a small percentage and a growing minoirity population, are not mutually exclusive: mages are reproducing, but so is the non-magical population.,

But you have no statistical information to make such a comparison, Dean.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

In fact, by virtue of sheer size and the lack of anti-childbirth policies, the non-magical population would have to be undergoing a catastrophe to not be growing at far greater rates than the mages, decreasing their percentage even more.

Again, you're making a shot in the dark with absolutely no information to make a proper estimate of the general % of either mages or ordinary people.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

And since the templars aren't taking orders, why do you think the Chantry will command them, Dean?

Strawman. I didn't say the Chantry would command them.

How is an question a "strawman"? That doesn't make any sense.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

And since Gentivi acknowledged the Circle of Magi as the greatest advantage the Chantry lead forces had during the New Exalted Marches, why do you think the Qunari would defeat them when their mages' skills are inferior in comparison?

...are you ****ting me?

I take it you never read the codex on the Qunari, then?

[Dean_the_Young]

LobselVith8 wrote...

There's no statistical information to gauge that as an accurate estimate of how many mages there are to people without magical ability, though.

There's a great massive deal that can rightly be inferred, however. Like how, even in militaries/positions, mages-to-non-mages are grossly scewed. And how isolated and contained the significant mage populations are, in comparison to the number and types of settlements in the word.

While an exact number can not be given, both due to gameplay inflation/reduction and, common sense can be applied. While .01%, as a number, may be hyperbole, the 'less than one percent' is something highly supported by the nature of the mage situation in Thedas. Like how most mages actually do live in the Circles, and are so vastly outweighed by the cities and towns of non-mages. We have literal magnitudes of difference between magi and non-magi populations.

But you have no statistical information to make such a comparison, Dean.

I have a rudimentary understanding of the nature population growth, Lob, and general rules that need exceptional causes not present to be present. In fact, population aspects in regards to Mages hurt any sort of long-term competitiveness: everyone else, after all, doesn't have a police state watching to ****block fornication.

Again, you're making a shot in the dark with absolutely no information to make a proper estimate of the general % of either mages or ordinary people.

Let's look at the approximate size of the Circle of Magi. Let's look at the approximate size of the City of Denerim, where the only mage populations are individuals. Are you starting to see a difference here?

We can't make a precise percentage here, but we can well make general proportions. Like, for example, how the population of mages in the Circle in Ferelden (where most mages are) compares to the population of Denerim (which is almost entirely non-mage). One is a matter of dozens, maybe hundreds. The other is a scale of tens of thousands.

How is an question a "strawman"? That doesn't make any sense.

Your question assigned a position to me that I did not make. That is a strawman argument.

I take it you never read the codex on the Qunari, then?

I have. Which is why I wonder why some mages, on their own, would be able to stand up to the Qunari after everything else when the Mages and the Chantry in full and all the armies of Thedas allied couldn't route the Qunari, who didn't even leave Neverria because they had to but because of civilian deaths.

The Mages in Kirkwall couldn't even stop the Templars, and the Templars and Mages and many other armies could barely push back the Qunari together. And then you posit that, because the Mages were an advantage, they could stand on their own.

That is idiotic on many levels of warfare and the Dragon Age history it's only plausible reply is disbelief.

[LobselVith8]

But the comparison is limited since we have only two Circles to compare it to, and we know there are at least six Circles in Orlais alone. We have no accurate gauge at how many people are in the city of Denerim versus how many mages are being housed in the Circle Tower. We can estimate that there's a large percentage of people living in the city of Denerim, but an exact % seems to assume a great deal more than the current information we presently have. Due to game mechanics, we have no real idea on how many literal people are residing in the city of Denerim v. how many mages are in the Circle Tower.

How is it a "strawman argument" if it is an inquiry? If I was asking you something, then it was to gain a better understanding of your position. What was sought was clarification.

To be fair about the mages potential effectiveness against the Qunari, the mages of Kirkwall didn't seem well trained. I doubt it's an accurate gauge about how effective mages are across the continent when they can be effective allies against the darkspawn armies in the Fifth Blight.

[tausra]

I believe the outcome of the Templar/Mage war is inconsequential. Tevinter will smell blood and move in to gobble up as much land as it can, with the help and/or encouragement of the newly freed mages. The Qunari will also seek to expand, because there's no way they're going to let this chaos stand, as well as let the Imperium expand unchecked.

The Chantry will be crushed between the two super powers, as it alone does not have the power to fight them both off, and for religious reasons cannot ally with either.

The Nations of Thedas are destabilized from the Mage uprising and scrambling to defend themselves, from hundreds of threats. Civil wars, Blood Mages, emboldened bandits, local uprisings, and generally domestic chaos would hobble their ability to rally a strong enough defense to avoid being annexed by the two super powers.

The Grey Wardens would be the only stable fighting force, but how effective they will be is up for debate. They lack numbers, but they are incredibly well trained and capable.

[Beerfish]

They will have to in the end set aside their differences and cooperate when THE REAPERS INVADE.

[Dean_the_Young]

LobselVith8 wrote...

But the comparison is limited since we have only two Circles to compare it to, and we know there are at least six Circles in Orlais alone. We have no accurate gauge at how many people are in the city of Denerim versus how many mages are being housed in the Circle Tower. We can estimate that there's a large percentage of people living in the city of Denerim, but an exact % seems to assume a great deal more than the current information we presently have. Due to game mechanics, we have no real idea on how many literal people are residing in the city of Denerim v. how many mages are in the Circle Tower.

And given that Orlais is many times the size and influence of Ferelden and Kirkwall combined, we've little reason to assume it's somehow population deficient despite being a superpower.

As I already said, we can't look at exact %. We don't need to. We can, however, examine and evaluate magnitudes.

How is it a "strawman argument" if it is an inquiry? If I was asking you something, then it was to gain a better understanding of your position. What was sought was clarification.

An argument can be phrased in the form of a question. Said questions can be deliberately misleading as well. For example:

Yes or no answer only: have you stopped molesting little children yet?


The question asserts a position on you already: that you do, in fact, molest little children.

To be fair about the mages potential effectiveness against the Qunari, the mages of Kirkwall didn't seem well trained. I doubt it's an accurate gauge about how effective mages are across the continent when they can be effective allies against the darkspawn armies in the Fifth Blight.

The Fifth Blight was a child's picknick that the world barely noticed and still hasn't even agreed actually happened, and the mages alone still couldn't take it alone. Mages are a part of a whole, not the whole in and of itself. Look at any military and try and equate their best advantage with the army as a whole, and you'd be a laughing stock.

Sane mages are highly disproportionately powerful. But they did not, in any sense, win the war against the Qunari on their own.

[RazorrX]

End result of the war? Entire country will be destabilized, allowing the Qunari to invade. Mages will be killed, future mages will be made Serebas. Templars will submit to the Qun or die.

[supakillaii]

It was originally Magisters versus Chantry, when the Templars were part of it, but now that the Templars have mostly/largely gone for themselves, it's really just Magisters versus Templars, with the Chantry with a thumb up their arse.
Or at least the last one is likely, looking at Kirkwall's situation, though it is possible that the Divine's going to attempt to get one of the sides to join them, to get a peaceful situation, and if worst come to worst, pacify them both.

[LobselVith8]

But it's impossible to properly estimate how many mages there are in comparison to regular people with no information to make an accurate analysis, Dean.

I never claimed you molested children, Dean, I asked you to provide further information - I was looking for clarification.

I never claimed the mages could handle the Blight alone, I claimed that it illustrated a difference in training between the mages of the two Circles. Also, I don't think anyone can fairly say whether the mages will win or lose against the Chantry or the templars; we have absolutely no information on the current standing of the Chantry or the Order of Templars in comparison to this emancipated Circles.

[pprrff]

Definitely D, next game we are going to find out that some greater power was behind the whole thing, and the choice will be to either expose this power to end the war, or use that power to side with one side against another.