From various other topics and posts I can see that Varric is generally regarded as one of the stronger companions in Dragons Age 2. Unfortunately for me this is not so in my playthroughs, as the likeable dwarf ends up on his back more often then Isabela !
Archers are the one class type that I've consistently struggled with in DA2. So has anyone got any tips/strategies or even basic advise for using them ?
Archers - I'm just not using them right
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, mars 28 2011 09:09
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#2
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 09:25
Swordfishtrombone
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You have to understand that archers do a lot of damage, and thus attract enemies who consider them a threat - an archer thus has to be prepared to be met by melee attacks. If you don't control the archer yourself, you need to set up your tactics for the archer so that they "know" to attack critters attacking them first, and preferably using some of their special attacks to do more damage, or to pin them down.
My most effective party that I've tried so far consisted of a dual wielding rogue Hawke, Sebastian, Varric and Merrill.
That ment two archers, and a high-damage dealing Hawke, and a mage with offensive power. The enemies didn't know who to target - everybody was an immediate threat. That party cut down the enemy FAST. All the rogues in that party also had the "scoundrel" tree tallent that gives them a significant boost to damage against any enemy that isn't currently targeting them. That ment that when an enemy targeted Varric, for example, Sebastian would start to do more damage against them, and the other way around.
You can also use a tank (Aveline, optimally), and make sure you pick aggro-generating skills for her, and the battlemaster skills to boost stamina. That helps somewhat, in the survivability of archers.
And/Or take two archers into your party, when they'll "split" the enemy in who they target.
The key though is getting aquainted with the tactics, and setting them up right.
My most effective party that I've tried so far consisted of a dual wielding rogue Hawke, Sebastian, Varric and Merrill.
That ment two archers, and a high-damage dealing Hawke, and a mage with offensive power. The enemies didn't know who to target - everybody was an immediate threat. That party cut down the enemy FAST. All the rogues in that party also had the "scoundrel" tree tallent that gives them a significant boost to damage against any enemy that isn't currently targeting them. That ment that when an enemy targeted Varric, for example, Sebastian would start to do more damage against them, and the other way around.
You can also use a tank (Aveline, optimally), and make sure you pick aggro-generating skills for her, and the battlemaster skills to boost stamina. That helps somewhat, in the survivability of archers.
And/Or take two archers into your party, when they'll "split" the enemy in who they target.
The key though is getting aquainted with the tactics, and setting them up right.
Modifié par Swordfishtrombone, 28 mars 2011 - 09:26 .
#3
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 12:33
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Cheers mate some good advice there. I think my big problem has been that their targetted quickly by the enemy and then put down by melee attacks
#4
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 03:35
Running_Blind
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Well Rogues have some good ways to drop threat, Stealth, upgraded Back to Back, Miasmic Flask, etc. Subtlety will also reduce the amount of threat you build up.
Enemies also don't seem to be aware of the damage you're doing to their mates, just to themselves, so concentrate on taking out one target at a time, most of the time you should be able to kill them before they reach you. If you can't then try to drop the threat, or CC them. If you're using an AoE talent then I follow up with Miasmic Flask for an AoE threat drop.
Enemies also don't seem to be aware of the damage you're doing to their mates, just to themselves, so concentrate on taking out one target at a time, most of the time you should be able to kill them before they reach you. If you can't then try to drop the threat, or CC them. If you're using an AoE talent then I follow up with Miasmic Flask for an AoE threat drop.
#5
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 04:35
Shep309
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Goad is your friend. After setting up that tactic on Varric so the enemies go after hawke his survivability increased exponentially. Also if he's not set to "ranged" well.. he'll be dying a lot as well.
#6
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 07:08
RPJer001
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When you are playing, just keep an eye out for Varric. He is usually near my mage anyway so I am always checking on them since either can be easily disrupted when they draw aggro. Waiting to check on him and/or the mage till you see their health bar diminish is too late. You want to focus fire on enemies attacking your non warriors quickly. Enemy archers are often a priority target for Varric since they can attack him or the mage and it is not always obvious that aggro from them was drawn till they start knocking back your squishies, effectively neutralizing them if not outright killing them.
You may also want to consider giving Varric the ring (named something twins) from the Golem in act 2 that that gives immunity to knock backs. This gives Varric or any squishy that lacks fortitude, the ability to continue to deal damage when when being attacked often allowing him to kill off several attackers.
You may also want to consider giving Varric the ring (named something twins) from the Golem in act 2 that that gives immunity to knock backs. This gives Varric or any squishy that lacks fortitude, the ability to continue to deal damage when when being attacked often allowing him to kill off several attackers.
#7
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 07:57
Joy Divison
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Have your ranged characters support each other through you're tactics (ideally w/ talents).
This will interrupt them getting knocked around and eliminate them without too much micro.
For Ex.
Set Merrill to horror an enemy attacking Varric
Set Vartic to pinning shot an enemy attacking Merrill
Also tell them to basic attack enemies attacking ranged characters before nearest enemy.
This will interrupt them getting knocked around and eliminate them without too much micro.
For Ex.
Set Merrill to horror an enemy attacking Varric
Set Vartic to pinning shot an enemy attacking Merrill
Also tell them to basic attack enemies attacking ranged characters before nearest enemy.
#8
Posté 28 mars 2011 - 11:47
Lumikki
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I play mostly mage's, but I have also played archer. I don't really have much problem with Varric, he seem to survive just fine. How ever, Here is what I do.
1. All party members has in first tactics: Self: health < 25%: drink heal potion.
2. I have taken varric some defensive skills, like Evade and Stealth. He uses them when someone is hiting him in melee range, based my tactics.
3. I have made so in tactics if "weak" (range dps) ally is under melee attack, other range character will use knock back attack to this enemy, like "stonefist" or "pinning shot". So, range characters short of defend others from melee attacks.
4. I use in tactics "Range" base behavior all range classes.
My team is consider allways: Tank + 3 range attacker.
1. All party members has in first tactics: Self: health < 25%: drink heal potion.
2. I have taken varric some defensive skills, like Evade and Stealth. He uses them when someone is hiting him in melee range, based my tactics.
3. I have made so in tactics if "weak" (range dps) ally is under melee attack, other range character will use knock back attack to this enemy, like "stonefist" or "pinning shot". So, range characters short of defend others from melee attacks.
4. I use in tactics "Range" base behavior all range classes.
My team is consider allways: Tank + 3 range attacker.
Modifié par Lumikki, 28 mars 2011 - 11:53 .
#9
Posté 29 mars 2011 - 04:54
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Some great advice there, thanks guys. I'm just about to finish my second playthrough as Mage Hawke with my party normally consisting of Hawke, Izabela, Aveline and Merrill.
My next playthrough will be as Warrior Hawke and I'm committed to having one archer permanently in my party. Gonna finally learn how to use them right or have them keep on dying until I do
My next playthrough will be as Warrior Hawke and I'm committed to having one archer permanently in my party. Gonna finally learn how to use them right or have them keep on dying until I do
#10
Posté 29 mars 2011 - 10:24
Firky
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Good topic. I don't know how to build Varric either. I'm trying to take him with me.
He just seems to have early abilities that I don't want, and later ones that are blocked by prerequisites. I've gone for the archery tree, but Rain of Arrows isn't as cool as it sounds. There's FF and enemies run away. Pinning shot doesn't seem to work.
How have you guys built Varric?
He just seems to have early abilities that I don't want, and later ones that are blocked by prerequisites. I've gone for the archery tree, but Rain of Arrows isn't as cool as it sounds. There's FF and enemies run away. Pinning shot doesn't seem to work.
How have you guys built Varric?
#11
Posté 29 mars 2011 - 10:40
FedericoV
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Firky wrote...
Good topic. I don't know how to build Varric either. I'm trying to take him with me.
He just seems to have early abilities that I don't want, and later ones that are blocked by prerequisites. I've gone for the archery tree, but Rain of Arrows isn't as cool as it sounds. There's FF and enemies run away. Pinning shot doesn't seem to work.
How have you guys built Varric?
Consider that I play a party with two rogues: Isabella and Varric. Isabella has specialized in the scoundrel tree (plus DW and her personal tree). My charachter is a mage and I have specialized in Elemental/Force/Spirit and Entropy. As a warrior I use Aveline. Then I've builded Varric in that way (and I found him really effective) as an utility/DPS charachter heavy on CCC.
Attibutes: 2:1 Dex/Cun with the occasional points spend on willpower for stamina (I aimed for 20 points in WIL at end game, Rune of Valiance not considered).
1-Max the archery tree asap to have access to upgraded Archery Lance. Best ability in the game against brittle target. You can one shot almost any enemy and it works even on some boss (I think that I used it against Hybrys even if obviously you cannot one shot boss).
2-In the meanwhile develop the subtefuge tree for upgraded fatiguing fog and upgraded chaos for Disorient CCC.
3-At level 7, use a potion to respec and change speed with the sustained from Varric's personal tree.
4-Once you have Upgraded Archer Lance, Upgraded Fatiguing Fog and Upgraded Chaos (optional) then, concentrate on his personal tree, starting with the passive (DPS rely on autoattack) and then the activated ones (plus upgrades).
5-If you reach level 24/25 you could even take evade/stealth to manage desperate aggro situation.
Consider that this build works if you got another rogue with the threat managent abilities from the scoundrel tree: armistice, goad, Isabella's personal one. If you play with just one rogue, you should devlop him in a different way (1:1 dex/cun, priorize goad and armistice over the subterfuge tree, choose between the activated abilities of his skill tree and the disorient CCC).
In my party, Varric is a killing machine and there's an incredible sinergy between him and my Mage Hawke.
PS: Do Varric quest ASAP in act 3. Upgraded Bianca with 4 rune slot is a monster.
Modifié par FedericoV, 29 mars 2011 - 11:16 .
#12
Posté 29 mars 2011 - 11:04
CaolIla
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I focused on Archer and Marksman. The passive Abilities and especially his drum ability make him a good damage dealer, but I'm also still looking for a way to make him more "durable". It gets better in Act 3 when you can give him the uber rune of attributes so he gets an overall boost (health and stamina as well as the other stuff) but till that point he died a lot on me.
But since I'm a lazy gamer and don't watch out the way I should, you might do it better ; )
But since I'm a lazy gamer and don't watch out the way I should, you might do it better ; )
#13
Posté 29 mars 2011 - 06:02
denarre
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For Varric, yeah he doesn't seem that impressive at first, possibly because if you leave him to his own devices he ends up KO'd alot. As others have noted, he draws alot of heat. He's basically carrying a ballista and that gets attention. He also has a problem with his default behavior (even ranged setting) where he won't pull away from melee.
On my 2nd playthrough I'm still trying to find a nice mix of his tactics, he still needs a bit of hand-holding and manual tweaking (hey silly, run HERE instead of staying in melee range and trying to crossbow-butt your opponent).
I guess part of the drawback is also that given the limited number of ability points, if you make Varric into a super-cannon, he's less likely to be able to do the roguish thing of dropping threat.
On my 2nd playthrough I'm still trying to find a nice mix of his tactics, he still needs a bit of hand-holding and manual tweaking (hey silly, run HERE instead of staying in melee range and trying to crossbow-butt your opponent).
I guess part of the drawback is also that given the limited number of ability points, if you make Varric into a super-cannon, he's less likely to be able to do the roguish thing of dropping threat.
#14
Posté 29 mars 2011 - 06:37
hextatic
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I usually play an archer, and set varric to attack my targets, and rarely have any issues with him. Then again, I also have him built so that he crits anything stunned, and stuns at the first opportunity- both with miasmic flask and evade.
#15
Posté 29 mars 2011 - 06:50
Gaidren
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I liked Archer/Marksman, with just a few points in Scoundrel (the passive buff to damage when not being attacked, the teleport to ally, the energy regen per attack, and Brand).
Archer's Lance is amazing with Brittle, as people have said. It's also good on its own for mowing down a line of non-elites....just be careful on Nightmare with friendly fire!
Pinning Shot is bugged to have a very low success rate, but get it maxed out anyways. It's a very high damage attack.
Marksman is a great tree, not a fan of Kickback but everything else there is gold.
The big key to not having your mages/ranged die is to make sure they are always on the same target via Tactics. Your warrior should be getting the attention of everything else, and the ranged can burn things down one at a time. I honestly have played through Act 1 and 2 on Nightmare with no Taunt or Goad abilities and have no trouble keeping my ranged characters alive, simply because I'm smart enough to not having them get the attention of 3+ things at once.
You should be controlling your warrior the large majority of the time, and letting Tactics take care of your rogues/mages (switching to them just to activate key things like cross class combos, etc.) for the most part.
Archer's Lance is amazing with Brittle, as people have said. It's also good on its own for mowing down a line of non-elites....just be careful on Nightmare with friendly fire!
Pinning Shot is bugged to have a very low success rate, but get it maxed out anyways. It's a very high damage attack.
Marksman is a great tree, not a fan of Kickback but everything else there is gold.
The big key to not having your mages/ranged die is to make sure they are always on the same target via Tactics. Your warrior should be getting the attention of everything else, and the ranged can burn things down one at a time. I honestly have played through Act 1 and 2 on Nightmare with no Taunt or Goad abilities and have no trouble keeping my ranged characters alive, simply because I'm smart enough to not having them get the attention of 3+ things at once.
You should be controlling your warrior the large majority of the time, and letting Tactics take care of your rogues/mages (switching to them just to activate key things like cross class combos, etc.) for the most part.
#16
Posté 01 avril 2011 - 04:25
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I've just started my third playthrough with Warrior Hawke. I've taken allot more time with Varrics tactics and I've made sure to not just invest in offensive abilites. So far things are going well and he appears to be holding his own in battle.
Thanks for the help folks, I'm sure I will continue to have questions though as the playthrough progresses
Thanks for the help folks, I'm sure I will continue to have questions though as the playthrough progresses
#17
Posté 01 avril 2011 - 06:20
nickan1022
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Once you tweak his tactics, Varric is a formidable ally. Get him set to "Ranged", and have him generally attack Hawke's target. For ranged single target damage, he's really hard to beat.
Also, it's worth investing in his aggro reducing talents such as Goad and Armistice, assuming you're not on a console, in which case those talents appear to be broken. But his general threat reducer is good, and evade works pretty well if he gets into a bind.
I use him on nightmare mode and I almost never have to babysit him (or Merrill or Anders). If he takes aggro from me and the enemy runs up to melee him, he backs up ten feet, turns and keeps firing, effectively kiting the enemy while I punish its flank until it turns back to me.
Also, it's worth investing in his aggro reducing talents such as Goad and Armistice, assuming you're not on a console, in which case those talents appear to be broken. But his general threat reducer is good, and evade works pretty well if he gets into a bind.
I use him on nightmare mode and I almost never have to babysit him (or Merrill or Anders). If he takes aggro from me and the enemy runs up to melee him, he backs up ten feet, turns and keeps firing, effectively kiting the enemy while I punish its flank until it turns back to me.
#18
Posté 05 avril 2011 - 12:06
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Ok so things are progressing well. Thanks for the advice guys. Varric has gone from being my squishiest companion to most resilient which is bordering on miraculous. I'm just going to quickly post the main changes I made. (I'm playing on hard by the way)
1. Set ranged companions to look after each other using tactics (In my party this means Varric looking after Bethany and vice versa)
2. I've been more balanced in spending my ability points, not just concentrating on offensive talents. talents like Stealth and Evade are worth their weight in gold when it comes to avoiding melee attacks and reducing threat. These are used through Tactics
3. I've finally set up tactics to incorperate cross class combo's (I know, I know, shame on me). Its still early game but Brittle + Bursting arrow is causing quite a stir on the streets of Kirkwall
4. Apart from cross class combo oppertunities, Varric is set primarily to attack Hawkes targets (Bethany does something similar for Isabela). This seems to work, as Hawke can instantly see when a scumbags eye starts to wander and act accordingly
1. Set ranged companions to look after each other using tactics (In my party this means Varric looking after Bethany and vice versa)
2. I've been more balanced in spending my ability points, not just concentrating on offensive talents. talents like Stealth and Evade are worth their weight in gold when it comes to avoiding melee attacks and reducing threat. These are used through Tactics
3. I've finally set up tactics to incorperate cross class combo's (I know, I know, shame on me). Its still early game but Brittle + Bursting arrow is causing quite a stir on the streets of Kirkwall
4. Apart from cross class combo oppertunities, Varric is set primarily to attack Hawkes targets (Bethany does something similar for Isabela). This seems to work, as Hawke can instantly see when a scumbags eye starts to wander and act accordingly
#19
Posté 05 avril 2011 - 01:54
Beerfish
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Yeah I'm having a tough time in my present play through. I've never had a huge problem with Varric going down too much in other groups but in my present group I have myself as an archer and Sebastien as well (I want to experience all companions). I am finding that archers are attracting way more agro than any other class I have played it seems, that includes my 2 handed warrior.
#20
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 03:41
Apathy1989
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My basic guide to varric:
1. Ignore archery tree.
2. Pump all points into cunning and some con to keep alive.
3. You will want Blindside (free 20% damage bonus), Goad (to spam at your tank) and Armistace (to send at your support if they get engaged in melee).
4. You will want to nearly max out his personal tree. Mostly you want the passives and sustainables. With equipment he should be getting plenty of attack, rapid fire and now an excellent critical chance.
5. Get Fatiguing Fog for disorientation of crowds. Mages can exploit the CCC, or avaline can use scatter. Miasmic Flask is good without friendly fire, but on nightmare I just ignore it.
6. Finish off with either speed or percision, I prefer percision for more crits.
Basically his job will be controlling aggro (allowing avaline to maintain all her sustainables and spam rally), disorientate foes and deal large damage to the primary target. Very useful once setup and I never take him out of the party.
1. Ignore archery tree.
2. Pump all points into cunning and some con to keep alive.
3. You will want Blindside (free 20% damage bonus), Goad (to spam at your tank) and Armistace (to send at your support if they get engaged in melee).
4. You will want to nearly max out his personal tree. Mostly you want the passives and sustainables. With equipment he should be getting plenty of attack, rapid fire and now an excellent critical chance.
5. Get Fatiguing Fog for disorientation of crowds. Mages can exploit the CCC, or avaline can use scatter. Miasmic Flask is good without friendly fire, but on nightmare I just ignore it.
6. Finish off with either speed or percision, I prefer percision for more crits.
Basically his job will be controlling aggro (allowing avaline to maintain all her sustainables and spam rally), disorientate foes and deal large damage to the primary target. Very useful once setup and I never take him out of the party.
#21
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 04:13
Eire Icon
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Apathy1989 wrote...
My basic guide to varric:
1. Ignore archery tree.
2. Pump all points into cunning and some con to keep alive.
3. You will want Blindside (free 20% damage bonus), Goad (to spam at your tank) and Armistace (to send at your support if they get engaged in melee).
4. You will want to nearly max out his personal tree. Mostly you want the passives and sustainables. With equipment he should be getting plenty of attack, rapid fire and now an excellent critical chance.
5. Get Fatiguing Fog for disorientation of crowds. Mages can exploit the CCC, or avaline can use scatter. Miasmic Flask is good without friendly fire, but on nightmare I just ignore it.
6. Finish off with either speed or percision, I prefer percision for more crits.
Basically his job will be controlling aggro (allowing avaline to maintain all her sustainables and spam rally), disorientate foes and deal large damage to the primary target. Very useful once setup and I never take him out of the party.
some excellent advice there - Duely noted for my own playthrough
#22
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 04:23
Killjoy Cutter
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Ignore Archery tree on Varric?
#23
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 06:19
Apathy1989
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Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Ignore Archery tree on Varric?
Yep. Rogues have excellent auto attack, archery tree is not a large improvement compared to the other utility abilities avaliable. All the CCC exploits aren't great compared to other classes either.
Archers Lance: Physical damage: x 1.7 +0.85x vs. BRITTLE
Bursting Arrow: Fire damage: x 4.32 vs. BRITTLE
Mighty blow, on the other hand, will yeild a x8-12 damage mutliplier on brittle, so is superiour to have your warrior finish this combo. Scythe also yeilds x6-9 damage.
#24
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 06:54
coldlogic82
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Apathy1989 wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Ignore Archery tree on Varric?
Yep. Rogues have excellent auto attack, archery tree is not a large improvement compared to the other utility abilities avaliable. All the CCC exploits aren't great compared to other classes either.
Archers Lance: Physical damage: x 1.7 +0.85x vs. BRITTLE
Bursting Arrow: Fire damage: x 4.32 vs. BRITTLE
Mighty blow, on the other hand, will yeild a x8-12 damage mutliplier on brittle, so is superiour to have your warrior finish this combo. Scythe also yeilds x6-9 damage.
This is, of course, because the basic auto attack of an archer is higher damage than that of a warrior, so the warrior contributes through burst combos than the more sustained damage of an archer. However, if you aren't playing with a 2h warrior, I think it's still worth the investment for the anti-brittle talents. However, because of the high sustained damage of which Varric is capable, yes, you can vastly improve his survivability by ignoring the archer tree. I think it comes down to style, personally. I mean, making 5 targets in a line brittle with cone of cold and then lancing them... pure gamegasm. But just because it gives you a gamegasm doesn't make it the more practical choice.
Also, a lot of good tips above. The talents that drop aggro onto other players are definately nice. As far as tactics go, put a lot of thought into them, as the above players have. If your tactics are good enough, even on nightmare you can literally not control anybody and just watch them all kick ass. I wouldn't recommend that though.
#25
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 08:24
Killjoy Cutter
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Apathy1989 wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Ignore Archery tree on Varric?
Yep. Rogues have excellent auto attack, archery tree is not a large improvement compared to the other utility abilities avaliable. All the CCC exploits aren't great compared to other classes either.
Archers Lance: Physical damage: x 1.7 +0.85x vs. BRITTLE
Bursting Arrow: Fire damage: x 4.32 vs. BRITTLE
Mighty blow, on the other hand, will yeild a x8-12 damage mutliplier on brittle, so is superiour to have your warrior finish this combo. Scythe also yeilds x6-9 damage.
Huh, I seem to be getting a lot of milage out of the Archery tree, myself.
