839 réponses à ce sujet

[ralx22]

After watching this video of the bad ending:

It appears that not all of the reapers are dreadnaught size ships, and that possibly they have smaller versions of themselves that might act as the "foot soldiers"of their fleet considering that we have one crawling inside the citadel... pause at the 3 second mark, anyone agree?

[Leonia]

So.. are there any major differences for doing Arrival before the SM? It doesn't seem to make sense, timeline an story-wise to do it right after Horizon.

I'm also slighly interested in why they included a "bad ending". It almost seems like a reward more than a punishment for letting the timer run out and there's no achievement for letting that happen.

[earthbornFemShep]

darknoon5 wrote...

Sky Shadowing wrote...

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Not sure if this has been said,m but this really bugs me:

Why is Kenson telling the batarian in her cell to blow up the relay? She seemed all "I need the reapers blessing," totally mad etc.

Also, was she directly controlled by Harbinger? Her eyes glow yellow once, but that's it.

I think that being in a considerable distance from Object Rho released her temoprarily from being indoctrinated. Like Mother Benezia to an extent... 

Or she was attempting to convince the Batarians to let her go.

She probably thought "hey, you know what, I tell these Batarians where the base is, they'll fire the project and stop the Reapers. I don't want that, so if I can convince him to let me go, I can lure them into a trap, and then there will be nothing to stop the Reapers."

Or it's just bad writing. Personally, though, I believe the above.

She'd obviously lost all sanity when she started welcoming the reaper invasion, so why would she be sane enough to play a ruse? Indoctrination destroys rationality.

I'm gonna go with the Benezia-esque thing, that being away from the object freed her, but even then, surely she'd have mentioned something to Shepard about the crazy indoctrinating item?

Slow, careful indoctrination produces a capable subject that can be quite convincing.  If you read the book Retribution and paid special attention in ME1 (especially to Vigil), you know that results vary depending on the type of indoctrination used and the speed of the indoctrination.  Vigil states that the reapers used indoctrinated Protheans to find and join Prothean 'hold-out' camps... only to betray the hold-outs to the reapers.   These subjects are capable of deceit.  Some, like Grayson, believe they can control the influence and that they are not at the complete mercy of the reapers until it is too late. 

My theory on Dr. Kenson's behavior is this:  she was being slowly and subtly indoctrinated.  She did not believe that Object Rho would harm her because she felt that she was taking the appropriate steps.  Her motivations were being subtly twisted by the reapers.  She wanted to get back to the object and she wanted to bring Shepard with her--I am not sure if she even knew her motivations about Shepard until she returned to the base.  Once she returned to the base, I think she knew she was going to try to expose Shepard to the device, capture/indoctrinate him, and hand him to the reapers.  She mentioned that she could hear the 'whispers'... and was dismayed when she could not hear them--that's when she became frantic and irrational. 

To most fans, bringing Shepard back to the base seems like an illogical risk for the Reapers? (after all, don't the reapers know that Shep is THE main character and we can't have ME3 without her/him?)  However, the reapers are known for consistently underestimating Shepard when trying to destroy or capture her/him.  The odds were in their favor this time:  Shepard was alone and severly outnumbered, in foreign territory, and on a mission to save the very tool they were using (Kenson).  If I were a reaper, I would have liked those odds.  

[armass]

Well i guess we can safely say now that one of the objectives in ME3 will be to avoid the war with the batarians that arises from this dlc. This also strongly suggest we will get a batarian squadmate.

[Dusty Boy T]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Sky Shadowing wrote...

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Not sure if this has been said,m but this really bugs me:

Why is Kenson telling the batarian in her cell to blow up the relay? She seemed all "I need the reapers blessing," totally mad etc.

Also, was she directly controlled by Harbinger? Her eyes glow yellow once, but that's it.

I think that being in a considerable distance from Object Rho released her temoprarily from being indoctrinated. Like Mother Benezia to an extent... 

Or she was attempting to convince the Batarians to let her go.

She probably thought "hey, you know what, I tell these Batarians where the base is, they'll fire the project and stop the Reapers. I don't want that, so if I can convince him to let me go, I can lure them into a trap, and then there will be nothing to stop the Reapers."

Or it's just bad writing. Personally, though, I believe the above.

She'd obviously lost all sanity when she started welcoming the reaper invasion, so why would she be sane enough to play a ruse? Indoctrination destroys rationality.

I'm gonna go with the Benezia-esque thing, that being away from the object freed her, but even then, surely she'd have mentioned something to Shepard about the crazy indoctrinating item?

Slow, careful indoctrination produces a capable subject that can be quite convincing.  If you read the book Retribution and paid special attention in ME1 (especially to Vigil), you know that results vary depending on the type of indoctrination used and the speed of the indoctrination.  Vigil states that the reapers used indoctrinated Protheans to find and join Prothean 'hold-out' camps... only to betray the hold-outs to the reapers.   These subjects are capable of deceit.  Some, like Grayson, believe they can control the influence and that they are not at the complete mercy of the reapers until it is too late. 

My theory on Dr. Kenson's behavior is this:  she was being slowly and subtly indoctrinated.  She did not believe that Object Rho would harm her because she felt that she was taking the appropriate steps.  Her motivations were being subtly twisted by the reapers.  She wanted to get back to the object and she wanted to bring Shepard with her--I am not sure if she even knew her motivations about Shepard until she returned to the base.  Once she returned to the base, I think she knew she was going to try to expose Shepard to the device, capture/indoctrinate him, and hand him to the reapers.  She mentioned that she could hear the 'whispers'... and was dismayed when she could not hear them--that's when she became frantic and irrational. 

To most fans, bringing Shepard back to the base seems like an illogical risk for the Reapers? (after all, don't the reapers know that Shep is THE main character and we can't have ME3 without her/him?)  However, the reapers are known for consistently underestimating Shepard when trying to destroy or capture her/him.  The odds were in their favor this time:  Shepard was alone and severly outnumbered, in foreign territory, and on a mission to save the very tool they were using (Kenson).  If I were a reaper, I would have liked those odds.  

Very well-put. Nice work.

[Aramintai]

"Arrival" seems to be the worst story DLC of the three for ME2, at least for me.

It has rather weak plot and much less cinematic experience, even compared to "Overlord". It's also kinda boring - half an hour walk though some corridors shooting same looking enemies, yes batarians wear the same armor and helmets as station guards. And there are no real choices to make in this DLC. It all comes down to the last dialogue with Hackett where he implies that Shepard in ME3 will have to visit Earth for his own trial. "Arrival" was just a reason for that trial, excluding his already dubious connection to Cerberus. Looks like a rough stitch job to tie ME2 to the beginning of ME3.

Also I don't understand one thing: a simple asteroid hit should not have destroyed the Relay, since what we know from ME1 it can survive even supernova explosion and is made from the same indestructible material as the Citadel. And even if the asteroid can destroy it why not execute The Project when the Reapers just arrived through it and destroy them all in one big explosion. Otherwise it's just a waste of good Relay and a couple of bad batarians. The Reapers will just find another Relay.

All in all, I'm dissapointed.

[SavesTheDay]

SmokePants wrote...

SavesTheDay wrote...

I wonder how it will effect ME3 if you don't play the Arrival DLC. I'm going to have more than one playthrough to import, so I guess I'll just have one Shepard that doesn't destroy the mass relay.

It was an OK addition to the game. I was kinda disappointed by the lack of reaction to killing 300,000 Batarians. No one on the Normandy has anything to say about that? I guess they're saving that for ME3.

Just like LOTSB, if you don't play it, it still happens in the period between games. The ending of each is definitive and canonical.

I didn't know that LotSB was canon. I hope there are some differences in ME3 if you play the DLC as renegade or paragon. Maybe the Batarians react differently depending on how you play.

[LGTX]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

Slow, careful indoctrination produces a capable subject that can be quite convincing.  If you read the book Retribution and paid special attention in ME1 (especially to Vigil), you know that results vary depending on the type of indoctrination used and the speed of the indoctrination.  Vigil states that the reapers used indoctrinated Protheans to find and join Prothean 'hold-out' camps... only to betray the hold-outs to the reapers.   These subjects are capable of deceit.  Some, like Grayson, believe they can control the influence and that they are not at the complete mercy of the reapers until it is too late.  

My theory on Dr. Kenson's behavior is this:  she was being slowly and subtly indoctrinated.  She did not believe that Object Rho would harm her because she felt that she was taking the appropriate steps.  Her motivations were being subtly twisted by the reapers.  She wanted to get back to the object and she wanted to bring Shepard with her--I am not sure if she even knew her motivations about Shepard until she returned to the base.  Once she returned to the base, I think she knew she was going to try to expose Shepard to the device, capture/indoctrinate him, and hand him to the reapers.  She mentioned that she could hear the 'whispers'... and was dismayed when she could not hear them--that's when she became frantic and irrational. 

Agreed on that, I think the video logs where she begins to doubt the Reapers' ill intentions show that pretty well. Harbinger probably manipulated her whole conversation in the shuttle, down to the subtle nuances - to make Shep crave for evidence and eventually lead him to the Project (if I remember correctly, they were initially headed for Arcturus). And when they got there, his control kicked in full-force.

[Leonia]

Yeah, I was pretty bummed about not getting to see Arcturus Station.

[Nerevar-as]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

To most fans, bringing Shepard back to the base seems like an illogical risk for the Reapers? (after all, don't the reapers know that Shep is THE main character and we can't have ME3 without her/him?)  However, the reapers are known for consistently underestimating Shepard when trying to destroy or capture her/him.  The odds were in their favor this time:  Shepard was alone and severly outnumbered, in foreign territory, and on a mission to save the very tool they were using (Kenson).  If I were a reaper, I would have liked those odds.  

Hell, if not for Lazarus Project enhancements to Shepard´s metabolism, it would have worked. I wonder if getting Shepard alive has anything to do with Legion´s comment that Sovereign was also a kind of hive mind itself.

[darknoon5]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Sky Shadowing wrote...

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Not sure if this has been said,m but this really bugs me:

Why is Kenson telling the batarian in her cell to blow up the relay? She seemed all "I need the reapers blessing," totally mad etc.

Also, was she directly controlled by Harbinger? Her eyes glow yellow once, but that's it.

I think that being in a considerable distance from Object Rho released her temoprarily from being indoctrinated. Like Mother Benezia to an extent... 

Or she was attempting to convince the Batarians to let her go.

She probably thought "hey, you know what, I tell these Batarians where the base is, they'll fire the project and stop the Reapers. I don't want that, so if I can convince him to let me go, I can lure them into a trap, and then there will be nothing to stop the Reapers."

Or it's just bad writing. Personally, though, I believe the above.

She'd obviously lost all sanity when she started welcoming the reaper invasion, so why would she be sane enough to play a ruse? Indoctrination destroys rationality.

I'm gonna go with the Benezia-esque thing, that being away from the object freed her, but even then, surely she'd have mentioned something to Shepard about the crazy indoctrinating item?

Slow, careful indoctrination produces a capable subject that can be quite convincing.  If you read the book Retribution and paid special attention in ME1 (especially to Vigil), you know that results vary depending on the type of indoctrination used and the speed of the indoctrination.  Vigil states that the reapers used indoctrinated Protheans to find and join Prothean 'hold-out' camps... only to betray the hold-outs to the reapers.   These subjects are capable of deceit.  Some, like Grayson, believe they can control the influence and that they are not at the complete mercy of the reapers until it is too late. 

My theory on Dr. Kenson's behavior is this:  she was being slowly and subtly indoctrinated.  She did not believe that Object Rho would harm her because she felt that she was taking the appropriate steps.  Her motivations were being subtly twisted by the reapers.  She wanted to get back to the object and she wanted to bring Shepard with her--I am not sure if she even knew her motivations about Shepard until she returned to the base.  Once she returned to the base, I think she knew she was going to try to expose Shepard to the device, capture/indoctrinate him, and hand him to the reapers.  She mentioned that she could hear the 'whispers'... and was dismayed when she could not hear them--that's when she became frantic and irrational. 

To most fans, bringing Shepard back to the base seems like an illogical risk for the Reapers? (after all, don't the reapers know that Shep is THE main character and we can't have ME3 without her/him?)  However, the reapers are known for consistently underestimating Shepard when trying to destroy or capture her/him.  The odds were in their favor this time:  Shepard was alone and severly outnumbered, in foreign territory, and on a mission to save the very tool they were using (Kenson).  If I were a reaper, I would have liked those odds.  

Cool beans. Grayson was implanted, but it was hinted Kenson was too, so I'll go with that.

[Legbiter]

Captain Crash wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

I played Paragon and I was completely fine with how everything played out. It is only natural to feel less emotion for a faceless many than a familiar few. But how do you even know that he wasn't feeling anything? The only person he could actually talk to about it was Hacket, and was he supposed to get all weepy in front of an Admiral? I just can't envision any scenario that would make you guys happy without making everyone else roll their eyes and/or vomit.

All I want is a little emotion to fact so many people have died.

Batarians are not people.

[samuraix87]

is it just me or do the relays sorta remind people of stargates and how they were made by the ancients do you thing they are going that route with the dating of the relays

[Nerevar-as]

Legbiter wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

I played Paragon and I was completely fine with how everything played out. It is only natural to feel less emotion for a faceless many than a familiar few. But how do you even know that he wasn't feeling anything? The only person he could actually talk to about it was Hacket, and was he supposed to get all weepy in front of an Admiral? I just can't envision any scenario that would make you guys happy without making everyone else roll their eyes and/or vomit.

All I want is a little emotion to fact so many people have died.

Batarians are not people.

Please tell me this is sarcasm, irony, or anything.

I took some of Shepard´s body language as regret. But I agree there´s too much of A Million is an Statistic trope going on.

[Nezzer]

Aramintai wrote...

"Arrival" seems to be the worst story DLC of the three for ME2, at least for me.

It has rather weak plot and much less cinematic experience, even compared to "Overlord". It's also kinda boring - half an hour walk though some corridors shooting same looking enemies, yes batarians wear the same armor and helmets as station guards. And there are no real choices to make in this DLC. It all comes down to the last dialogue with Hackett where he implies that Shepard in ME3 will have to visit Earth for his own trial. "Arrival" was just a reason for that trial, excluding his already dubious connection to Cerberus. Looks like a rough stitch job to tie ME2 to the beginning of ME3.

Also I don't understand one thing: a simple asteroid hit should not have destroyed the Relay, since what we know from ME1 it can survive even supernova explosion and is made from the same indestructible material as the Citadel. And even if the asteroid can destroy it why not execute The Project when the Reapers just arrived through it and destroy them all in one big explosion. Otherwise it's just a waste of good Relay and a couple of bad batarians. The Reapers will just find another Relay.

All in all, I'm dissapointed.

Perhaps a supernova wouldn't destroy a relay because it's pure energy, but crashing a high mass object such as a large asteroid or a planet on an active relay might cause the relay to overload while trying to transport that one object (I suppose mass relays have a limit of mass it can transport), and thus making it explode.

[LGTX]

I don't get the deal with Shepard NOT being emotional enough - this is an RPG, and if a guy's playing a genocidal Renegade, why should the main hero express any type of regret? Personally, I was going for a Paragon run-through and still thought that Shep acted way too independently in some scenes.

[somecthemes]

I love Mass Effect, really, I totally dig it. That's why this DLC is such a sad thing. It's sucky trying to point out it's faults without thinking you're pointing a couple of fingers inadvertently at the rest of the series. My main issue is that there is little to no real chance to decide Shep's actions. The only choice in the entire mission seemed to be whether to shot the Doc or just let her kill herself. I'd probably give the DLC a 8/10 if there had been a combination of dialog or actions that could let you save her or warn the colonists, as it is, a 6/10 seems fair. My assumption is that most of the choices we would have liked availible would've required modification to ME3's beginning, so the decision was out of our hands. Bioware, Mass Effect is a game of choices, and you wouldn't give us even a meaningless choice like Coke or Pepsi. All of my playthroughs have played Overlord and LotSB, but there will likely be a few who skip this DLC just out of bordom. Why would I really want to play the exact same DLC 15 times over again if there's no real diffence each time?
Sorry if seemed like a rant, but I was very, very excited about new DLC.

[moddit]

My thoughts on the whole 'Arrival' event is that the Reapers did this whole 'no we're going to attack in two days, don't shield yourself from our giant indoctrination squid' thing as a ploy because, you know, they scared the galaxy ****less after the Battle of the Citadel. They probably were months or years away anyways but intentionally wanted to weaken the galaxy and make it easier for them to invade. You know, start an internal conflict in the galaxy and attack. If a war breaks out between the Batarian and Humans, the galaxy will be in a far weaker state than working towards a common goal.

I don't know if anyone is fresh on their ancient Greece history but I think during the Peloponessian Wars, Athens and Sparta were duking it out along side their city-state allies while Persia sent arms to each side to keep the infighting. Then when they were at their weakest, Persia would come in and take over. Macedonia instead took the opportunity but that's irrelevant.

The Reapers are expoilting organic emotions/prejudice to have a better chance at re-conquering the galaxy. Because, you know.. they've done this before.

[Tazzmission]

LGTX wrote...

I don't get the deal with Shepard NOT being emotional enough - this is an RPG, and if a guy's playing a genocidal Renegade, why should the main hero express any type of regret? Personally, I was going for a Paragon run-through and still thought that Shep acted way too independently in some scenes.

who cares? this dlc is about shepard and his knowledge of the reaper invasion. its not like tali or wrex would know jack sh*t about it.... i mean if you were in the military and had to make a choice on wether to sacrifice millions of people or ditch em how would you react to the pressure?

[LGTX]

moddit wrote...

My thoughts on the whole 'Arrival' event is that the Reapers did this whole 'no we're going to attack in two days, don't shield yourself from our giant indoctrination squid' thing as a ploy because, you know, they scared the galaxy ****less after the Battle of the Citadel. They probably were months or years away anyways but intentionally wanted to weaken the galaxy and make it easier for them to invade. You know, start an internal conflict in the galaxy and attack. If a war breaks out between the Batarian and Humans, the galaxy will be in a far weaker state than working towards a common goal.

I don't know if anyone is fresh on their ancient Greece history but I think during the Peloponessian Wars, Athens and Sparta were duking it out along side their city-state allies while Persia sent arms to each side to keep the infighting. Then when they were at their weakest, Persia would come in and take over. Macedonia instead took the opportunity but that's irrelevant.

The Reapers are expoilting organic emotions/prejudice to have a better chance at re-conquering the galaxy. Because, you know.. they've done this before.

While I'd like for the Reapers to show SOME tactical depth to their methods of conquest, it wasn't a ploy. Try waiting for the timer to run out 

[moddit]

LGTX wrote...

moddit wrote...

My thoughts on the whole 'Arrival' event is that the Reapers did this whole 'no we're going to attack in two days, don't shield yourself from our giant indoctrination squid' thing as a ploy because, you know, they scared the galaxy ****less after the Battle of the Citadel. They probably were months or years away anyways but intentionally wanted to weaken the galaxy and make it easier for them to invade. You know, start an internal conflict in the galaxy and attack. If a war breaks out between the Batarian and Humans, the galaxy will be in a far weaker state than working towards a common goal.

I don't know if anyone is fresh on their ancient Greece history but I think during the Peloponessian Wars, Athens and Sparta were duking it out along side their city-state allies while Persia sent arms to each side to keep the infighting. Then when they were at their weakest, Persia would come in and take over. Macedonia instead took the opportunity but that's irrelevant.

The Reapers are expoilting organic emotions/prejudice to have a better chance at re-conquering the galaxy. Because, you know.. they've done this before.

While I'd like for the Reapers to show SOME tactical depth to their methods of conquest, it wasn't a ploy. Try waiting for the timer to run out 

I know, I just saw the video

I was too much of a goody-two-shoes to die!

Too bad Bioware can't make this into a strategic space opera.

Modifié par moddit, 29 mars 2011 - 09:30 .

[dreman9999]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Sky Shadowing wrote...

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Not sure if this has been said,m but this really bugs me:

Why is Kenson telling the batarian in her cell to blow up the relay? She seemed all "I need the reapers blessing," totally mad etc.

Also, was she directly controlled by Harbinger? Her eyes glow yellow once, but that's it.

I think that being in a considerable distance from Object Rho released her temoprarily from being indoctrinated. Like Mother Benezia to an extent... 

Or she was attempting to convince the Batarians to let her go.

She probably thought "hey, you know what, I tell these Batarians where the base is, they'll fire the project and stop the Reapers. I don't want that, so if I can convince him to let me go, I can lure them into a trap, and then there will be nothing to stop the Reapers."

Or it's just bad writing. Personally, though, I believe the above.

She'd obviously lost all sanity when she started welcoming the reaper invasion, so why would she be sane enough to play a ruse? Indoctrination destroys rationality.

I'm gonna go with the Benezia-esque thing, that being away from the object freed her, but even then, surely she'd have mentioned something to Shepard about the crazy indoctrinating item?

Slow, careful indoctrination produces a capable subject that can be quite convincing.  If you read the book Retribution and paid special attention in ME1 (especially to Vigil), you know that results vary depending on the type of indoctrination used and the speed of the indoctrination.  Vigil states that the reapers used indoctrinated Protheans to find and join Prothean 'hold-out' camps... only to betray the hold-outs to the reapers.   These subjects are capable of deceit.  Some, like Grayson, believe they can control the influence and that they are not at the complete mercy of the reapers until it is too late. 

My theory on Dr. Kenson's behavior is this:  she was being slowly and subtly indoctrinated.  She did not believe that Object Rho would harm her because she felt that she was taking the appropriate steps.  Her motivations were being subtly twisted by the reapers.  She wanted to get back to the object and she wanted to bring Shepard with her--I am not sure if she even knew her motivations about Shepard until she returned to the base.  Once she returned to the base, I think she knew she was going to try to expose Shepard to the device, capture/indoctrinate him, and hand him to the reapers.  She mentioned that she could hear the 'whispers'... and was dismayed when she could not hear them--that's when she became frantic and irrational. 

To most fans, bringing Shepard back to the base seems like an illogical risk for the Reapers? (after all, don't the reapers know that Shep is THE main character and we can't have ME3 without her/him?)  However, the reapers are known for consistently underestimating Shepard when trying to destroy or capture her/him.  The odds were in their favor this time:  Shepard was alone and severly outnumbered, in foreign territory, and on a mission to save the very tool they were using (Kenson).  If I were a reaper, I would have liked those odds.  

I think most fans can't get it in their heads that the reapers want Sheperd in a bad way. They lust for him/her so baddly to the degree of a craze. They want him/her as a vanguard...point blank and wanted to lure him/her in to be captured but they didn't know how good Maradas work is.

[LGTX]

Tazzmission wrote...
 i mean if you were in the military and had to make a choice on wether to sacrifice millions of people or ditch em how would you react to the pressure?

That's a choice Arrival could have given us but didn't. It matters because choices and the whole RPG element is, you know, kind of a central theme for the game. And especially since the DLCs are meant to experiment differing mechanics for later use in ME3.

And this DLC is about Shepard? Which isn't? 

[Tazzmission]

[quote]LGTX wrote...

[quote]Tazzmission wrote...

And this DLC is about Shepard? Which isn't? 
[/quote]



actually


lotsb was about liara


overloard was about david


kasumis stolen memory was about kasumi kasumi




the arrival dlc makes sence expecially the way shepard was handled in both me games. and dont forgot fans have b*tched and moaned for 7 - 8 months demanding it gos back to me1 roots and it did., hell people wanted annother bring down the sky and they got it but they still whine. so i dont blame the devs when in reality its the fans who demand way to damn much and dont know what they want

[spacehamsterZH]

Meh story, great gameplay.

The level design has been consistently getting better with every DLC mission since ME2, and this one's no exception. The multiple waves coming through the doors need to stop, though. Environments also looked good. Some of it almost had an ME1 flavor to it. Very nice.

The story though... eh. Boring characters, everything's totally railroaded, and in the end it seems entirely insignificant. Plus I really don't like how some of the dialogue seems to be pushing for the "humanity vs the Reapers" angle that we're all afraid might happen in ME3. It's a bit strange that this is so lackluster after how awesome LotSB was.

I just hope the act of genocide the story forces Shepard to commit comes back to bite him/her in the ass in a major way in ME3. I'm still hoping for total rogue status, and this is actually an indication of just that.