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[awpdevil]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

LGTX wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

LGTX wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...
 i mean if you were in the military and had to make a choice on wether to sacrifice millions of people or ditch em how would you react to the pressure?

That's a choice Arrival could have given us but didn't. It matters because choices and the whole RPG element is, you know, kind of a central theme for the game. And especially since the DLCs are meant to experiment differing mechanics for later use in ME3.

And this DLC is about Shepard? Which isn't? 

I'm glad they didn't as it would just be a waste of resources.  If you didn't blow up the relay then the Reapers come and everybody dies.  SImple as that.

I was referring to a choice of reaction, not the actual choice on activating the Project. 

What do you want Shepard to do?  Cry over it?  It was a tactical military call just like in ME1 when Shepard sacrificed part of the Alliance fleet to save the Council.  He wasn't weepy or that either.  You could tell he didn't like it either judging by his body language before you press the 'go ahead' button but it had to be done.

There was no call, it doesn't matter. It gets blown up either way. Open your eyes.

Beyond that, I have to completely agree with the comment made earlier about how the reapers would not be dead, from the blast if they were alledgedly minutes away from arriving at the relay. It wasn't a galaxy busting explosion that killed sovereign. So if they were minutes away, then they should have been blown up.

Talking to a friend who knows a bit more of the ME lore, the relays create like a pocket to slip into for FTL travel. Relay A creates the pocket, relay B acts as a guide for the pilot to know when to start slowing down so that you don't overshoot it. If they were coming via FTL this could be plausible I guess, since there would be no way for the reapers to know when to slow down, with the ending relay being destroyed. They could have overshot the explosion and ended up even further into the galaxy if you follow this train of thought. But this is a way out there theory.

However, if they were not using FTL to reach the relay, and they were minutes away, then no, they should have been obliterated along with the rest of the system, no exceptions.

One other possibility. This could have been a setup. An elaborate scheme to turn Shepard into a bad guy, who would trigger unrest. Scientists discover the artifact, become indoctrinated, lure Shepard in, play on his desperation, make it seem like they were closer then they really are, and voila! They are safely out of reach, and Shepard has to account for the lives of 300,000 people.

Modifié par awpdevil, 29 mars 2011 - 10:17 .

[LGTX]

Nerevar-as wrote...

I agree about the DLC not being limited to post SM. In fact, unless it changes some cutscenes, it makes no sense. Harbinger and company only start the trip towards the galaxy after the T-Reaper project fails.

Whereas I prefer to think that the Reapers didn't sit on their backsides while Shepard was on a crusade against Collectors. Wouldn't it be unnaturally awesome if they suddenly started the invasion while Shepard was busy tinkering around with a Collector Ship or something? I think that's the idea Arrival tries to connect, it adds substance to the Reaper threat itself.

I mean, sure, having a back-up plan like indoctrinated protheans building a human Reaper is cool, but it's also a nice decoy for a certain Spectre to follow around while the masterminds calmly navigate towards the Alpha Relay.

But yeah, they went out from hibernation after the SM, so no sense in what I said. Still, would be pretty cool...

[LGTX]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

LGTX wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...

A trial on Earth Hackett mentions. I don't think Earthgov will convict Shep and the batarians wont accept anything less than a death penalty. Expect an assassination attempt or jury rigging or something....

I've actually thought about this quite much. Not about the assassination part, but... there were speculations earlier that ME3 might start off by Shepard being in prison - and I mean, why not?

With ME2, he's pretty much set the gears in motion for rallying up the non-Council races. Urdnot is rolling on all fours at taking over Tuchanka, the Geth/quarian conflict is set for a quick (and not necessarily painless) end with the resolution of the Heretic problem and the state of the Admiralty, the Rachni are making definite promises (if you saved them in ME1, that is), and with the three main Terminus gangs in almost total disarray, it won't be a problem for Aria to take over the whole thing and step forth as yet another asset (she's very much into the Reaper threat if I remember correctly).

ME3 may just consist of you breaking out of prison, adding final nudges to resolving the Terminus conflicts and sticking some evidence up the Council's ass, with the second half of the game being the war itself. So I think it's plausible to say that after Arrival, canonically speaking, Shepard turns himself in/gets arrested on Earth. 

Well Bioware can be the first to say they had a jail tutorial in a scifi game.  Shepard better pray that he doesn't drop the soap or some batarian might come to visit.

Don't get me wrong, but as a tutorial sequence, something similar might just work. I mean, throw Shepard amidst a massive prison uprising, and there's your canonical way to "re-create" his face (which at that point will resemble a hanar's backside)

Just kidding of course. But I still think that what Hackett said at the end wasn't just... "there". He put emphasis on it and he had his reasons. I hope ME3 plays out the situation well.

[AlphaJarmel]

LGTX wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

I agree about the DLC not being limited to post SM. In fact, unless it changes some cutscenes, it makes no sense. Harbinger and company only start the trip towards the galaxy after the T-Reaper project fails.

Whereas I prefer to think that the Reapers didn't sit on their backsides while Shepard was on a crusade against Collectors. Wouldn't it be unnaturally awesome if they suddenly started the invasion while Shepard was busy tinkering around with a Collector Ship or something? I think that's the idea Arrival tries to connect, it adds substance to the Reaper threat itself.

I mean, sure, having a back-up plan like indoctrinated protheans building a human Reaper is cool, but it's also a nice decoy for a certain Spectre to follow around while the masterminds calmly navigate towards the Alpha Relay.

But yeah, they went out from hibernation after the SM, so no sense in what I said. Still, would be pretty cool...

The Reapers were coming all along in ME2.  Just as Douglas Adams would say, space is very big.  It takes time.  The Reapers were planning on harvesting us anyway so might as well let the Collectors start.

[skaye]

I enjoyed this DLC enormously. Certainly worth its cost, anyhow. Well done Bioware.

The actual gameplay was excellent, I thought. Some of the later battles on the Asteroid were tough in Veteran mode. Playing solo was great for increasing the tension and forcing you to use powers and cover tactically instead of relying on the squad. More of this, please.

Plot-wise, I'm happy. A fitting capstone to the Mass Effect 2 adventure. Actually, now I put it like that, it makes me feel a little sad...

As for what's next... a trial and imprisonment seem like a great way to open the next game. Cross-examination by a lawyer would be a brilliant way to fill in variables for people starting a new Shepard fro ME3, think about it.

With all this Cerberus cooperation on top of the political pressure to avoid war with the Batarians, Shepard will be an easy scapegoat. So she'll have to go from outlaw to rallying the galactic civilizations... and then to rescuing earth and ending the Reaper threat. All in one game. That sounds like a great trajectory to me, though highly reminiscent of the plot of Dragon Age: Origins.

[JediNg]

Xiarmethes wrote...

Apologies if this idea was already mentioned earlier in the thread (didn't read every post as of yet), but something occured to me after finishing the Arrival DLC:

Shepard was set up by the Reapers

Their primary path into the galaxy via the Citadel was blocked and their new Human Reaper inductee was wiped out along with the Collectors (assuming this DLC takes place post-suicide mission). Shepard is clearly not going down easy and has proven to be quite determined to intefere with the Reapers at every opportunity, so what better way to strike down the self-appointed savior of the galaxy than by "turning" Shepard into a genocidal maniac to be persecuted and destroyed by the same civilizations he/she saved?

The Reapers, acting through their agent Dr. Kenson, trick Shepard into destroying a relay, which they probably never really needed, and wiping out an inhabited star system. All the intel and proof Shepard had was primarily from the agent and the Reaper aritifact, both under Harbringer's control. The time constraints imposed also serve to snuff out any rational thought on the situation: Took quite a bit of effort to figure out the Citadel was the Reaper main gate in ME1, and now we get intel to find their "back door" just like that? Convenient...

The Council now has "conclusive" proof that Shepard's belief in the Reaper threat has driven him/her mad and must be put down. The Alliance brass will serve up Shepard in the interests of avoiding war with the batarians. Tried, sentenced and powerless on Earth, Shepard and the homeworld would be wiped out by the Reapers in one fell swoop.

At least, that is the plan....

Completely possible. Mostly because - now what?  Suddenly the Reapers' advance is halted because one relay got unexpectedly destroyed?
Like you said, the council will think him crazy and dismiss the reaper threat even further.  Only the higher ups in the military likely truly know about the reaper threat.  They probably are disconnected from the threat, thinking it to be out of sight out of mind, and also because they can't do anything without political backing, and we all know where the politicians' heads are.

[JediNg]

Also, did anyone notice that the option to use the control console after you wake up from being sedated says "assume control"? I dohoho'd

[kumquats]

Arrival: short and intense.
That's what I think about it. I will definetly make a playthrough after Horizon to see if something changes.

[AlphaJarmel]

JediNg wrote...

Also, did anyone notice that the option to use the control console after you wake up from being sedated says "assume control"? I dohoho'd

I didn't notice that.  That is indeed loltastic.

[Sky Shadowing]

I think a large part of the non-choice comes from the fact that there literally is no other choice in that matter. It's not like most other video games, where all of a sudden a perfect opportunity presents itself. The choice is literally the colony dies, or everything dies.

You have the ability to say "I refuse to kill the colonists". Just stand around for two hours. No golden angel is going to come flying in with a deus-ex machina. It's one choice that literally HAS to be made. Sometimes life isn't all glory and candy. Where people do want to roleplay a Paragon (I do), it's a non-choice. And that's how the developers percieved it. Do you sit on your high horse and kill everybody with your refusal to kill people, or do you make the necessary sacrifice and kill the people who would die anyways? Their fate is sealed no matter what- the Reapers will kill them if they arrive. So the only acceptable outcome is to ensure that nobody else dies in the process.

So the choice is sacrifice your morality, or let everybody die. No matter what you do, those 300,000 people die anyways. It's a non-choice. There is nothing you can do to prevent those people's death. So make sure their sacrifice is not in vain.

As far as I'm concerned, Arrival was fantastic. Dialogue was worthless in that situation- who was Shepard talking to? There was nobody else. Imagine what you want going through Shepard's head- it was literally the only choice, both from a gameplay perspective, ethical perspective, and logical perspective.

[Shirosaki17]

Just to clarify a few things. Didn't Sovereign spend a few centuries looking for the signal that was interfering with the keepers? If so, doesn't Arrival kind of screw up the whole story? I mean the Citadel is suppose to be a massive relay right, don't they mention another relay possibly being in dark space. I mean I can't remember for sure, what the whole thing with the citadel was. It just doesn't seem like they would have traveled until fairly recently, but Sovereign spent approx. 3 centuries looking for the signal, so them travelling to the Alpha Relay so quickly seems very odd and doesn't make sense.

[Obadiah]

Sounds like this DLC was a rationale to get Shepard's Spectre status revoked for ME3.

Modifié par Obadiah, 29 mars 2011 - 10:41 .

[Tasker]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

It's a shame that the DLC isn't limited to being availiable after the suicide mission, as it would have been brilliant if the Reapers jumped in just before the Normandy jumped out - and got splattered by the asteroid/relay explosion in the process.

The way I understood it, the alpha relay isn´t the one Reapers were arriving through, is the one they were going to use once they reached the galactic border after walking all the way from dark space.

I agree about the DLC not being limited to post SM. In fact, unless it changes some cutscenes, it makes no sense. Harbinger and company only start the trip towards the galaxy after the T-Reaper project fails.

I don't know why, but I got the impression that the Reapers were using the artifact as a homing beacon, which was very close to the relay and would have made the Alpha relay their path into the galaxy by default.

[kaotician]

Why would you need a path though? I mean, outer space is basically just empty space. It's just a matter of a straight line, isn't it?

[AlphaJarmel]

kaotician wrote...

Why would you need a path though? I mean, outer space is basically just empty space. It's just a matter of a straight line, isn't it?

Any time you travel vast distances especially galaxy size distances, you need some sort of beacon or guidance.  If you're trajectory is off even by a very miniscule amount then that could mean millions if not tens of millions of miles. 

[Weak Sauce Hype]

ME3 spoiled: Batarians team up with reapers and destroy humanity.
Shepard: "awww, cmon. I tried to save you. I really diid. D:"
Harbinger: "lol I told ya"
Then Milky Way is vacuumed.

[kaotician]

Yeah, maybe, except you could use the star of the system - much as we do today in astronomy. I prefer to note it's dual-purpose myself. I mean, potentially at least there are/were some 300,000 indoctrinated Batarians in that system, if the broadcast signal did more than just say 'here I am'.

Modifié par kaotician, 29 mars 2011 - 10:59 .

[kaotician]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

kaotician wrote...

Why would you need a path though? I mean, outer space is basically just empty space. It's just a matter of a straight line, isn't it?

Any time you travel vast distances especially galaxy size distances, you need some sort of beacon or guidance.  If you're trajectory is off even by a very miniscule amount then that could mean millions if not tens of millions of miles. 

Sorry, I'm repeating myself here, as it wasn't clear what I was talking about.

Yeah, maybe, except you could use the star of the system - much as we do today in astronomy. I prefer to note it's dual-purpose myself. I mean, potentially at least there are/were some 300,000 indoctrinated Batarians in that system, if the broadcast signal did more than just say 'here I am'.

[Xiarmethes]

LGTX wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

LGTX wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...

A trial on Earth Hackett mentions. I don't think Earthgov will convict Shep and the batarians wont accept anything less than a death penalty. Expect an assassination attempt or jury rigging or something....

I've actually thought about this quite much. Not about the assassination part, but... there were speculations earlier that ME3 might start off by Shepard being in prison - and I mean, why not?

With ME2, he's pretty much set the gears in motion for rallying up the non-Council races. Urdnot is rolling on all fours at taking over Tuchanka, the Geth/quarian conflict is set for a quick (and not necessarily painless) end with the resolution of the Heretic problem and the state of the Admiralty, the Rachni are making definite promises (if you saved them in ME1, that is), and with the three main Terminus gangs in almost total disarray, it won't be a problem for Aria to take over the whole thing and step forth as yet another asset (she's very much into the Reaper threat if I remember correctly).

ME3 may just consist of you breaking out of prison, adding final nudges to resolving the Terminus conflicts and sticking some evidence up the Council's ass, with the second half of the game being the war itself. So I think it's plausible to say that after Arrival, canonically speaking, Shepard turns himself in/gets arrested on Earth. 

Well Bioware can be the first to say they had a jail tutorial in a scifi game.  Shepard better pray that he doesn't drop the soap or some batarian might come to visit.

Don't get me wrong, but as a tutorial sequence, something similar might just work. I mean, throw Shepard amidst a massive prison uprising, and there's your canonical way to "re-create" his face (which at that point will resemble a hanar's backside)

Just kidding of course. But I still think that what Hackett said at the end wasn't just... "there". He put emphasis on it and he had his reasons. I hope ME3 plays out the situation well.

ME3 may well begin with Shepard's trial.  The datapad for the defense councilor can act as the interface where you can import/create/mod your Shepard character (while the councilor is studying up on the client).  A page or two can be taken from Star Trek 6 as far as trial proceedings and the subsequent jailbreak.  Shepard, Chakwas and Joker (the only Alliance staff on the Normandy - Jacob Taylor quit them long ago for Cerberus) just make it out only to have Shepard turn on their insider just as all hell starts to break loose on Earth -  escape was a bit too convenient...

To paraphrase the line from Star Trek 6:  killing one would have been easy, three would be suspicious.  Killed while attempting escape - now that's convincing for all!

[JediNg]

Spuudle wrote...

kaotician wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

kaotician wrote...

Why would you need a path though? I mean, outer space is basically just empty space. It's just a matter of a straight line, isn't it?

Any time you travel vast distances especially galaxy size distances, you need some sort of beacon or guidance.  If you're trajectory is off even by a very miniscule amount then that could mean millions if not tens of millions of miles. 

Sorry, I'm repeating myself here, as it wasn't clear what I was talking about.

Yeah, maybe, except you could use the star of the system - much as we do today in astronomy. I prefer to note it's dual-purpose myself. I mean, potentially at least there are/were some 300,000 indoctrinated Batarians in that system, if the broadcast signal did more than just say 'here I am'.

What do you mean?

He means point the nose of the ship at the star you want to go to and keep it pointed at it best you can while the engines fire.

[Geth_Prime]

The more I think about Arrival the more I like it...I guess it was great while it lasted, it just didn't last very long.
Anyone else think it felt more like ME1 than ME2?

[JediNg]

Geth_Prime wrote...

The more I think about Arrival the more I like it...I guess it was great while it lasted, it just didn't last very long.
Anyone else think it felt more like ME1 than ME2?

Somewhat.  Mostly because of the music.  Who did the music?