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[Ramus Quaritch]

And then there's Quentin. A blood mage serial killer who kills Hawke's mother. You know what the worst part is? Orsino knew him and knew about him. Orsino knew what he was doing and corresponded with him, congratulating him on his necromancy research. He didn't help you or turn Quentin in to the Templars/guards. He let Leandra and all of Quentin's other victims die. That, to me, represents the very reason that there is a Circle. And when my Hawke finds out about that, he won't be able to be pro mage.

[GSSAGE7]

Um, why is Feynriel even considered evil or dubious? He is just a particularly powerful potential abomination.
All mages are like beacons to demons, I just assumed Feynriel shined brighter, so to speak. He never really did anything that struck me as evil in any sense of the word.

[Joy Divison]

Aelia wrote...

It is NOT that I disagree with you.  It's that BW made my agreement hard to swallow, and intellectually difficult to justify.  We didn't really need to see the Templars behave worse... what we really needed to see was some Mages rise to the occassion and do things truly selfless.

-A

I'm pretty sure that's the point.  Mages in DA don't rise to the occasion an do thing truly selfless.

If they did, it would be too easy to side with them at the end.

[thebrute7]

I think the biggest issue was that EVERY single mage went all evil on us the second we showed up. Next to all anyway.

heck I am crazy pro-mage, I have more mage playthroughs of DA:O and DA II than all the rogue/warrior classes combined. But even my pro-mage, mage hawke byt he end was like "Maybe I should just annul the Circle these mages in kirkwall are ALL just waiting to turn into abominations. I'll just kill them all, take Bethany, Merrill, and Anders and go elsewhere."

[Icy Magebane]

I'm only willing to be pro-mage if I'm playing as a mage, and most likely an evil or self-centered one. Regardless of Hawke's family, mages are dangerous, and the ones in Kirkwall especially so. Almost every one of them turned to blood magic in the end, and even the ones who didn't still summoned demons and worked alongside abominations! Having seen both sides to the story first hand, I think the mages are dead wrong. That kind of destructive power needs to be contained or eliminated, no matter the cost.

[The Angry One]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

Um, why is Feynriel even considered evil or dubious? He is just a particularly powerful potential abomination.
All mages are like beacons to demons, I just assumed Feynriel shined brighter, so to speak. He never really did anything that struck me as evil in any sense of the word.

Because unless tranquilled he goes to the evil empire and apprentices under a master of evil to train in the ways of evil.

[Sheonite]

The Angry One wrote...

Because unless tranquilled he goes to the evil empire and apprentices under a master of evil to train in the ways of evil.

I set him free thinking I hope you learned something from all of this.
ALL Tevinter's can't possibly be evil, can they?

What the hell am I talking about? Every mage NPC is a loonybin.

[DrGulag]

I basically think all mages should be killed. Or atleast I would advocate it if I was a person living in Thedas.

-Most people believe mages corrupted the Golden City (paradise), created the blight and almost doomed the entire world.

-Tevinter Imperium is a testament to what happens if mages are allowed the freedom to pursue their own goals. I'd prefer living under people like Meredith if the alternative was magisters. Tevinter is a slave state where people are used for blood magic like cattle.

-Most of the apostates seem to use blood magic and end up killing random people just to satisfy some random fade demon. And even decent mages can be possessed by a demon without any warning.

One second and it's

"Hi mom just got back from the...."

to

"HUARGH! Suffer woman!"

-They cant be contained. After Dragon Age 2 it seems that the Circle of Magi have rebelled and the Chantry is in chaos. If Kirkwall is anything to go by it means that blood mages, abominations and other monsters are probably killing people everywhere.

Before DA2 I always laughed when people were going on about "SATAN!!!" after every Harry Potter book came out. But now I actually agree with them. Magic practitioners, they are worse than the Darkspawn lol. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Modifié par DrGulag, 30 mars 2011 - 03:45 .

[Lithuasil]

Speaking as a person who'd likely end up a mage in Thedas, I'm kind of opposed to the notion of drowning every child with magic ability outright.
I'd turn myself in voluntarily though :|

[The Angry One]

I'd probably be a Templar, I like smacking things and Lyrium sounds tasty... don't you dare judge me!!
But I'd be one of the nice ones.

Obviously the Kirkwall circle went too far (though it could've been depicted better as I've said) but overall everything that happens shows us that circles are needed, and Anders' delusions of mage freedom will only end up in genocide or mages becoming Magisters.
But again a lot of this could've been solved by not establishing circles in the middle of cities designed by Tevinter to be sacrificial demon magnets.

[Lithuasil]

Or not staffing said circles with morons :|

[DrGulag]

The thing is that the Circle of Magi is probably the best place to live in Thedas since the world seems to be a pretty grim place with all them wars going on, darkspawn, dragons, huge friggin' monster spiders roaming everywhere etc. The mages don't have to worry about food or accomodation. They can just read books, fornicate and learn new spells.

If they refuse to be contained, they should just be exterminated.

Modifié par DrGulag, 30 mars 2011 - 03:07 .

[Lithuasil]

I pretty much agree with the circle being one of the best places to be. In any case, it's not as bad as being constantly on the run, or getting murdered by templars.

[The Angry One]

It's human nature to want more, and when you have the power to burn cities, make people explode and rain chaos with your mind the thought of being free is tempting.
It's understandable, just not justifiable.

[LobselVith8]

A life of slavery doesn't sound that good to me, DrGulag.

[Lithuasil]

When being free means a whole lot of people that my powers don't work on want to murder me, and a whole lot of unspeakable horrors want to eat my brain through a straw... I'd rather stay in the circle and keep my head down, thank you very much :|

[The Angry One]

The ideal would be a slightly more liberal Ferelden circle.
Watched over by templars, but free to fraternise, practice magic and study.
Less crap religious dogma and more careful explanation and teaching of just exactly why mages must be contained, sort of like what Cullen talks about.

[Icy Magebane]

Honestly, it's only the troublemakers that want to leave the Circle anyway. People like Uldred and Decimus. There's nothing outside those walls that they can't find within, and they're a lot safer from both creatures and demons if they just follow the rules.

[DrGulag]

It's human nature to want more, and when you have the power to burn cities, make people explode and rain chaos with your mind the thought of being free is tempting.
It's understandable, just not justifiable.

Exactly. So it's better to be safe than sorry when you have sentient nuclear warheads living next door and they demand freedom.

(\\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

A life of slavery doesn't sound that good to me, DrGulag.

It's containment or death. There are no real alternatives when you think about it rationally.

Modifié par DrGulag, 30 mars 2011 - 03:19 .

[Lithuasil]

Well, there's that whole family thing outside the walls for once. But then, I wouldn't want to eat my family that hid me, like what connor did, either.

[Emperor Iaius I]

-Mages corrupted the Golden City (paradise), created the blight and almost doomed the entire world.

Prove it. I could say, equally plausibly, that the magisters invaded the Golden City in revenge for the Maker imprisoning the Old Gods that had helped them so much, and in retaliation, the Maker inflicted the Blight on them. We have no credible information about this.

-Tevinter Imperium is a testament to what happens if mages are allowed the freedom to pursue their own goals. I'd prefer living under people like Meredith if the alternative was magisters. Tevinter is a slave state where people are used for blood magic like cattle.

This "slave state" is also the only place where elves possess any potential at social advancement: they can become magisters. Everywhere else in Thedas, they reside in ghettos, and they ARE enslaved in Orlais, they just don't call them that.

By the way, Orlais is also the place where knights can rape people without consequence because it's their legal right: as enshrined by the Chantry headquartered there.

[Lewie]

I noticed how Meredith had this amazing new sword, and to hear she was alone in her room talking to 'herself'? Bargain. Wait.. 

Templars being possessed, watching both sides i find it difficult to be pro mage also. Its not exactly a few bad apples its a barrel full and trying to save the few that 'may not' go bad. 

My playthrough now has bethany in the circle, which is a difficult standpoint sometimes. 
Saying that i have yet to play a blood mage 

Modifié par louise101, 30 mars 2011 - 03:48 .

[Beaynid]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Meredith isn't right, though. The Knight-Commander wants the genocide of every mage for the actions of a Grey Warden who was standing right in front of her. Since there are likely hundreds or thousands of mages of all ages in the Gallows Prison, encountering only a handful of abominations doesn't mean that every mage fell prey to abominations. We can't condemn every mage for the actions of the few we encounter.

tthose were two points i was going to make. 

also every evil mage you meet, you meet at least 1 counterpoint good mage for the most part.(spoilers incoming)

when you first meet grace, who turns out to be a psychotic blood mage, you meet terri and alain.  alain used blood magic but reforms and only used such again once in my playthrough because there wasnt another option.  terri wasnt a blood mage and writes to you during each act after.

for anders, there is bethany, merril is the inbetween.

for evaline and huron, there is the 3rd one who is just a moron looking for a piece of tail.

for the missing templars quest, if you spare the brothel mage woman, she reforms in her cell(kindof forced but she wasnt irredemable)

the mage underground quest you meet one who isnt psychotic.

ella isnt a psychotic.

but like was said, none of that even matters when it comes down to whether you should help the mages or not in the end.  meredith is going for annulment of the circle, which means killing every mage man woman and child in the circle.  it all comes down to whether you can stand by and aid in the wholesale slaughter of a ton of innocents because some(even many) could be blood mages, which may or may not be psychotic ones.

I find it really hard to go the templar route, it just seems too extreme and blatantly wrong to do when i play a character with any sort of morals.

[The Angry One]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

This "slave state" is also the only place where elves possess any potential at social advancement: they can become magisters. Everywhere else in Thedas, they reside in ghettos, and they ARE enslaved in Orlais, they just don't call them that.

By the way, Orlais is also the place where knights can rape people without consequence because it's their legal right: as enshrined by the Chantry headquartered there.

It's a good point that the Chantry does nothing about the unacceptable racism towards elves, and that Orlais is corrupt.
But Tevinter is worse. While elves can advance they do so by being mages who climb on top of the skulls of thousands of others. It's a different kind of discrimination and a far worse one.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Skulls of thousands of others? It's worth noting that Fenris says that blood magic is practiced in secret, and I imagine they rarely perform the rituals that require people to die. It's an open secret, but it's still very far from the pre-Chantry days.