27 Antworten in diesem Thema

[Siegdrifa]

I would like to bring one aspect of DA2 that didn't convinced me much.

I don't realy understand why my Hawke become so quicly or easly the Champion of Kirkwall... I don't think my Hawke is that awsome.

In the other hand, i totaly accept the title of Hero of Ferelden with my character of DAO.
I saved citys, gave political stability to drawves, save the circle of magi, build an army and such...

I could think, it's mainly due because Kirkwall is a more restricted area, so of cause I can't accomplish such epic vanture in a so small place.
But, what make me feel awsome with my DAO character is "i lead, they listen, i show i make the job done".
My hero of ferelden is one of the deadliest opponent to be found in ferelden as much as a wise and charismatic leader.

My Hawke, not lacking skill in fighting hability, seem to be a pure failure as a charismatic character story wise, why? because what Hawke do or say don't seem to impact DA2 outcome.
Lot of people aknowledge me as the "champion" and look up to me, but what the point if they don't intend to care about my opinion? i feel they just make me waste my time.

This is NOTa complain or arsh criticism toward DA2.
What do your feel between your hero of Ferelden and your Champion of Kirkwall?
you find them both awsome ? yes ? no? why ?

/ discuss

Bearbeitet von Siegdrifa, 28 März 2011 - 03:24 .

[Apathy1989]

Both titles are suitable. You saved both places, just kirkwall is a tiny free city while ferelden is a country.

Although your complaint seems to be more about kirkwall being dull, than the title.

[Nukenin]

In my personal experience, the Hero of Ferelden is an opportunistic idiot. He somehow found time in the midst of the Blight to run a potent lyrium potion scam operation with his old pal from Orzammar. He doesn't deserve the recognition. He even scammed his way out of being a proper martyr. Good riddance!

The Hero of Ferelden is a trite and tired cliché and would've been best served by Dragon Age 2 delivering the news of his or her embarrassing demise at the hands of a slippery bar of soap, an ill-placed balcony, and an even iller-placed statue of said Hero of Ferelden.

Of course, the Champion of Kirkwall is just some two-bit refugee whose supposed prowess and accomplishments are but the words of an unreliable storyteller. Probably the only true moment of his or her tale was the awkwardness in encountering Uncle Gamlen hanging out in the Blooming Rose.

Put the Warden and the Champion in a cage and see who causes you to fall asleep out of sheer boredom the quickest. Heroes. Hrmph.

The only true hero has been the Orlesian Warden who took up the mantle of Warden-Commander in Awakening and completely disparaged the Hero of Ferelden by completely not importing any of his or her efforts.

Second place goes to any Hero of Ferelden being a bit more worthy of the name by sacrificing themselves to defeat the archdemon.

Just my humble opinion!

[Apathy1989]

The true face of heroes does not matter, and is not the reason for their title.

Champion of Kirkwall is directly for saving it from the Quanari.

Hero of Ferelden is for killing the arch daemon (I was a martyr on my first playthrough, since I didn't want to cheat on leliana). You could argue the title hero of ferelden is unearned though if you have someone else deal the death blow for you.

[Lestan zero]

Siegdrifa you read my thoughts. Hero of Ferelden truly is a hero, under my command he saved entire race, visited so many places. Sense of any RPG is associate yourself with a hero, but i can't feel it in DA 2. I don't know, maybe it's because DAO was first in DA saga, maybe cause DAO was more epic.

My choice is Hero of Ferelden.

[Fa1nT]

Fereldan is a nation, Kirkwall is a city.

Of course one title has more weight, and of course one hero has a broader scope.

[Knightly_BW]

Also didn't Hero of Ferelden did what make Hawke soooo important in Thedas history? Sided with either mages or templars to destroy or save circle. It is over shadowed by blight and all but still the same to me.

In sense the Warden completed a hard task, effected many lives in Ferelden and outside. If those two last wardens couldn't stop blight, so there wouldn't be a Champion of Kirkwall.

[Taura-Tierno]

Stopping a blight vs saving a city? Of course the former is the more grandeur.

Which is why, I assume, Hawke is "just" the Champion of Kirkwall, not the "Hero of the Free Marches" or anything like that. He stopped the Qunari invasion in Kirkwall ... so he's seen as the champion.

I don't really see why there's a reason to compare the titles, they're so vastly different.

[Critical Miss]

The Hero of Ferelden bores me to death. I'm not some kid that gets enraptured by stories of heroes fighting dragons and going around doing whatever they want. The warden was looked up to near the beginning of the game by just being a Grey Warden. Talk about serving ego on a platter to gamers.

Hawke on the other hand had to work for recognition. Hawke is a more sophisticated character in terms of writing, and the events Hawke was involved in are far more epic than the blight. Which, mind you, the Talking Man in The Hanging Man said wasn't a big blight like the others. Just thought I'd throw that in.

[ejoslin]

Well, Hawke got that title after averting a fullblown war with the Qanari by defeating the arishok. It's an appropriate title, actually -- Hawke WAS the city's champion.

[Nukenin]

Did you feel like a champion after the cluster-stumble that was Demands of the Qun? After seeing the Viscount's head go tumbling down, followed by his rolling circlet? After Meredith names you the title just to take the assembled nobles' minds off the dénouement of this cluster-stumble?

The Arishok was an idiot. That mess should've ended at the Qunari Compound.

But I digress (can you tell I just recently waded through this muddled scrape again?). Despite its awkward foundation, the Champion of Kirkwall at least has some modicum of legitimacy.

The "Hero" of Ferelden, however, is a farce, a travesty, and likely pure myth borne out of a couple Grey Wardens gallivanting around the countryside playing roving deus ex machina to a bunch of idiots who couldn't sort their problems out for themselves before finally getting around to doing something they could've taken care of straight away and saved countless more lives in the process. Ego on a platter indeed!

(With apologies to those slavishly recounting their Hero's exploits with the fanatical hope that somehow their precious Warden will reappear in some future installment of the series so that they can finally usurp the Maker and ascend to godhood or whatever such massive ego trip fills their waking and slumbering fantasies.)

My own "Hero" doesn't even get the recognition of any savegame of his being imported into DA2. Huah! You hear that Roddy Aeducan? Ye're just a passing fancy! You didn't matter!

[ejoslin]

Hero of Ferelden was granted solely because of ending the blight. You warden arranged things and lead the final onslaught.

And the import thing is a bug. A very, very bad bug, but a bug nonetheless. There should be SOME recognition, however. Just not all... correct. There's a codex entry on the hero of ferelden, and then there are books about the fifth blight laying around.

[Nukenin]

I should clarify.  I don't give my Warden recognition by choice; I choose to not import any of his saves.  I just use one of the three factory-supplied backgrounds for the Hero of Ferelden.  

The guy wasted a good chunk of time running a potent lyrium potion scam to rack up gold.  His place in history is best lost.  (Though one day I'm sure I'll complete his game to my satisfaction with the various DLC and then try an import.)

[Niezabudka]

In my opinion a fact of great importance is that a champion of Kirkwall
was imposed on us by the makers depriving us at the same time of a joy
from creating our own characters.
Everything is just delivered on the plate according to the following
rule: “One year passed and you have a reputation so and so” and
because of this it seems somehow artificial.
Playing the champion of Kirkwall I had an impression that it was BW
that “lent” him to me for a while and only under some conditions
whereas the Hero of Ferelden was given to me for good and I am allowed
to do anything I want with him.
As a Grey Guard you had more options to choose, more freedom to act -
Hawke has always one or to options.

Bearbeitet von Niezabudka, 29 März 2011 - 03:39 .

[Stensig]

Asperius wrote...

Also didn't Hero of Ferelden did what make Hawke soooo important in Thedas history? Sided with either mages or templars to destroy or save circle. It is over shadowed by blight and all but still the same to me.

In sense the Warden completed a hard task, effected many lives in Ferelden and outside. If those two last wardens couldn't stop blight, so there wouldn't be a Champion of Kirkwall.

SAY WHAT!
In DA:O what you did was choose a side in a "war" where a mage had savaged the circle in Fereldan. It's a hole other deal in DA2. Anders - by will - disticly "assasinates" the Grand claric, destroying the chantry of Kirkwal and therefore defiles the Maker. This = blasphemy from the Templars POV and only gives the fuel to blame/hunt down mages. This - due to the assasination - also pulls the chantry into this war, which adds a 3rd party of the war, which never exicted in DA:O's version. Now all mages has the choice to accept death, or fight, and eventually being hunt down a kill anyway.

IMHO it is so wrong to say they are the same event. There's a hue difference.

[GodBID]

Hawke and Warden got nothing on Sandal sorry folks he is the real hero yo!

[Knightly_BW]

Stensig wrote...

Asperius wrote...

Also didn't Hero of Ferelden did what make Hawke soooo important in Thedas history? Sided with either mages or templars to destroy or save circle. It is over shadowed by blight and all but still the same to me.

In sense the Warden completed a hard task, effected many lives in Ferelden and outside. If those two last wardens couldn't stop blight, so there wouldn't be a Champion of Kirkwall.

SAY WHAT!
In DA:O what you did was choose a side in a "war" where a mage had savaged the circle in Fereldan. It's a hole other deal in DA2. Anders - by will - disticly "assasinates" the Grand claric, destroying the chantry of Kirkwal and therefore defiles the Maker. This = blasphemy from the Templars POV and only gives the fuel to blame/hunt down mages. This - due to the assasination - also pulls the chantry into this war, which adds a 3rd party of the war, which never exicted in DA:O's version. Now all mages has the choice to accept death, or fight, and eventually being hunt down a kill anyway.

IMHO it is so wrong to say they are the same event. There's a hue difference.

I see your point and quite accurate but still I didn't feel Hawke is really that important, why Seekers look for a man without choice but to accept to destroy one of the parties first. Even Aveline, Varric or Merrill can do that. If you say Anders is important in that conflict yeah I am agree whole heartedly. That terrorist started Templar/Mage war but role of Hawke is so insignificant.

[Juug]

The reason that Hawke is important is because he did the death blow to the First Enchanter and the Knight Commander. He showed that the Templars could be defied. He was the spark that ignited the War. Anders provided the fuel. If Hawke had not been there then the whole incident would've probably ended in Kirkwall and the Right of Annulment would've been carried out.

[Blze001]

Hawke kind of defeated an entire Qunari invasion single handedly by going head-to-head with the Arishok and decking him single handedly. Also, remember that s/he was a major partner of an extremely successful Deep Road's expedition, defeated a High Dragon and various other adventures of varying importance. That's pretty heroic for only chilling in a single town the entire time. I'd say 'Hero' is a suitable title.

[Stensig]

Juug wrote...

The reason that Hawke is important is because he did the death blow to the First Enchanter and the Knight Commander. He showed that the Templars could be defied. He was the spark that ignited the War. Anders provided the fuel. If Hawke had not been there then the whole incident would've probably ended in Kirkwall and the Right of Annulment would've been carried out.

@Asperius  This ! Also, as you play through the game you find out that the Seeker thought Hawke WAS more invalved in the war then he/she actually was, thus Varics tale constantly suprises her.
+ Who says that they're looking for Hawke with cruel intentions? I would rather say they come with somewhat good intentions since they apparetly looked for the Hero too, as Leliana mentions in the epilogue.

[WhackyRavenLand]

I don't have a problem with Hawke becoming The Champion of Kirkwall, my problem lies in it being less "epic" compared to DA: O.  DA 2 was lacking in scenery, areas, colour, likable characters and just general variety.

There are two things, however, that dissapointed/irritated me beyond belief...lack of options to pick and mix races, classes, abilities and skills is one thing...

The other is the whole "mage vs templar" ****. I understand it and feel that it's an interesting philosophical to this franchise which wasn't explored much in DA: O... But  I'd like to be rewarded, at least ONCE, for defending mages who claim not to be bloodmages without them not giving a rats ass and turn to bloodmagic the instant I've successfully defended them.  I GET the whole "mages could be dangerous" argument, but for the love of my self, WHY would you make them turn to that crap every damn time!? It gave me absolutely no reasonable cause to even join them during the "grand" finale.

Sorry, I got a tad sidetracked... Dragon Age: Origins felt more epic the more you played through the game. Going from basically nothing and becoming a warden, seasoned warrior, ambassador and all the way to becoming The Hero of Ferelden. It just is a helluva lot more epic than Dragon Age 2s story. Don't misunderstand me, DA 2 is, by no means a bad game...it just isn't as "grand" or "epic" as it could have been.

Champion of Kirkwall is a fine and well deserved title, but it's sadly lacking compared the title The Hero of Ferelden.

I won't hold my breath, but I sincerely hope that Dragon Age: Inquisition would swing low, sweep players of their feet and rectify on DA 2s flaws and mistakes.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see! 

[SinZephyr]

It sounds to me that most folks here have chosen the good or moral route, favoring Mages. My Hero of Ferelden was a City Elf from the Alienage, I am personally motivated against the Mages and my actions and decisions effect my story. Although I am not with the Mages, I do not align myself with the Templars either, I get to choose my own path. You either follow or die.

Yes, I choose the evil path. I usually only "help" in order for money or prestige, as will I continue this in Inquisition.

DA2 I continue with this desired path to nullify the mages and outlaw them, I found out you can also betray the Templars (mainly the face of it, Meredith.) That left me the Champion of Kirkwall with none to oppose, I really enjoyed that.

So in comparison, my story arc makes sense if I choose to do my own bidding in Inquisition. It suits my needs and it will seem to fit my decisions, I'm really eagar to see what I can do, I really hope there is a Marauder type deal.

[maRia0sp]

I think they are both awesome .

I favorite my Hero of Ferelden too but I do believe that Hawke deserves his title as well . The Hero saved the world from the Blight , fought against every kind of enemy and risked her life to save everyone , none doubts her heroism . Hawke on the other hand started from a simple person and found himself getting involved in every sort of trouble , helped people none would even notice and stopped the Qunari from taking over Kirkwall . Plus he was the only one that seemed to care about what happened to the city , give the guy some credit .

Honestly though , who would NOT LOVE to see his/her Hero of Ferelden and Hawke fight side by side ?

[Kynare]

I mean... my Hawke was feared and respected by her enemies and she defeated the Arishok in 1v1+dog combat. I believe Varric's narrative clarified that she saved the nobles' lives while doing so, which probably helped with the reputation and title. In the end, specific actions don't matter much, but how much you influence the influential people. I suppose there could be some debate on how influential Alistair/Anora are when you're not a human noble marrying them.

 

[headcanon]

In my world state, my Warden Amell never took up the position as Warden-Commander (used Caron for that) and she was gradually forgotten. Most people pictured King Alistair when they thought of the Warden who rose to the top, and I always imagined that only a few people still acknowledged her as a driving force behind stopping the Blight. Even then, the majority of her actions were heavily influenced by her companions. "The Hero of Ferelden" was just that. A title to fit in the storybooks.

[/headcanon]

 

So, title-wise, the Champion is grander than my Warden. She sided with the templars and benefited from her title as Champion far more than my Warden ever did as the Hero of Ferelden (SWIMMIN' IN SOVEREIGNS BY THE END OF ACT III) But I have a thing for bittersweet endings and I still like my Warden more.