202 réponses à ce sujet

[flexxdk]

The city does indeed leave a lot to be desired for.

Together with the repetitive caves, Kirkwall could've used some more life and less desert looks *glares at Lowtown and the Docks*.

Still, I enjoy the game for what it is. It's sad that they didn't made it just as I hoped it would be, but it's enjoyable enough.

Modifié par Whacka, 28 mars 2011 - 05:34 .

[neppakyo]

It would be nice to have a crowded city, you know people walking around, bargaining with hawkers, etc and so on. And for them to run away, screaming something like "Guards! Apostate, run for your lives!" when you fight or do magic.

[aknightofni]

Wasn't Vizima from the Witcher built with Biowares engine? Something like that would have been much better than how barren Kirkwall turned out.

[Dark83]

Oblivion's Imperial City was bull****. Hell, Oblivion was a step backwards from Morrowind in terms of map layout. Freaking loading zones. Guddam consoles carving up our glorious one-map into crappy bite-sized zones. Imperial City could have been beautiful. We could have flown up and gazed upon the entire city from the tower. But noooooo, crappy hardware clipped our wings.

[AkiKishi]

Big part of the problem is the city does not link together. You feel like you are playing levels rather than roaming a city.

[Mad-Max90]

Hey, there's no CRYING in BASEBALL

[Fruit of the Doom]

Not to mention how small the city is, in addition to how empty it is.

The game in general feels... lifeless. If only because you can't even simply talk to your team mates except during a few specific conversations per act.

The "diverse" environments don't help.

[Galad22]

aknightofni wrote...

Wasn't Vizima from the Witcher built with Biowares engine? Something like that would have been much better than how barren Kirkwall turned out.

Indeed it's amazing how much more alive Vizima feels when compared to Kirkwall.

[Mad-Max90]

Oh and the boats in that game were extremely unrealistic, how in the void would those tiny boats, with no real deck might I add, transport all those people in a hold for two weeks, just saying that's something at least fable got right

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

It would of been cool if they mAde the city really open and life like, possibly like AC1 that would of made the game feel larger.

[Obadiah]

The Citadel was bigger and more alive than Kirkwall.

Modifié par Obadiah, 28 mars 2011 - 06:23 .

[Kimberly Shaw]

Wow. People are defending Kirkwall and saying it's more alive than other cities in Baldur's Gate2? Honestly?

Look, you can defend the plot and game play and bugs and everything, but please don't spout nonsense about Kirkwall being alive and encompassing.

For a game set in one city, they should have made the city itself Sand-box style with points to fast travel in it if desired. This would have given cohesion to the city instead it just feels like a few small zones that are not at all connected.

They should have made more than a few grand views in the city, instead everything is mile high walls so you feel like you're in a hedge maze with brown/grey bushes that stretch 50 feet high. Nevermind that every single house has the same EXACT layout in hightown.

Remember in Baldur's Gate 2, how if you travelled at night a vampire would come and kill townspeople and guards would try to help you kill them and if you cast spells in front of people the cowled wizards would try to arrest you? That game was 11 years ago. Why has gaming regressed so much since then in terms of cities reacting to the Player Character? Isn't magic use illegal in Kirkwall outside of the Circle? Does anyone notice/care if I cast spells in broad daylight? Nope. Do NPCs die or scatter if I throw a fireball in their midst? Only if they are enemies, the townspeople just keep yawning.

And the game is set over 7 years (don't give me 10 years bull@hit, that's including the 3 years after Varric left Hawke which is not playable), and the town changes imperceptibly in that time. What a frigging waste of a chance to do something DIFFERENT with a single city setting because you've got this great device of time to use. And wasted. Completely. How ANYONE defends the lack of change in the city over 7 years of massive change is beyond me.

The Bioware fanboys are some real peculiar people. And in posting this, please believe that I did not hate the game, I've played through twice and find lots I like about it. But the static city is not one of them.

[Mad-Max90]

^^ this^^

[neppakyo]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

Wow. People are defending Kirkwall and saying it's more alive than other cities in Baldur's Gate2? Honestly?

Look, you can defend the plot and game play and bugs and everything, but please don't spout nonsense about Kirkwall being alive and encompassing.

For a game set in one city, they should have made the city itself Sand-box style with points to fast travel in it if desired. This would have given cohesion to the city instead it just feels like a few small zones that are not at all connected.

They should have made more than a few grand views in the city, instead everything is mile high walls so you feel like you're in a hedge maze with brown/grey bushes that stretch 50 feet high. Nevermind that every single house has the same EXACT layout in hightown.

Remember in Baldur's Gate 2, how if you travelled at night a vampire would come and kill townspeople and guards would try to help you kill them and if you cast spells in front of people the cowled wizards would try to arrest you? That game was 11 years ago. Why has gaming regressed so much since then in terms of cities reacting to the Player Character? Isn't magic use illegal in Kirkwall outside of the Circle? Does anyone notice/care if I cast spells in broad daylight? Nope. Do NPCs die or scatter if I throw a fireball in their midst? Only if they are enemies, the townspeople just keep yawning.

And the game is set over 7 years (don't give me 10 years bull@hit, that's including the 3 years after Varric left Hawke which is not playable), and the town changes imperceptibly in that time. What a frigging waste of a chance to do something DIFFERENT with a single city setting because you've got this great device of time to use. And wasted. Completely. How ANYONE defends the lack of change in the city over 7 years of massive change is beyond me.

The Bioware fanboys are some real peculiar people. And in posting this, please believe that I did not hate the game, I've played through twice and find lots I like about it. But the static city is not one of them.

^^^ This too..

And the Normandy felt bigger and more alive than kirkwall.

[Cybermortis]

Obadiah wrote...

The Citadel was bigger and more alive than Kirkwall.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing last night.

[Mad-Max90]

Let's take a look at a real life city with notable changes occurring yearly, Las Vegas, it changed more in the past six months than Kirkwall did in 7 years, what a shame considering how they said your choices affect not only the people but the land around you, and no having that one cave closed off to you after you do a mission does not count as change it counts as limiting the environment even more.

[ApplesauceBandit]

Hopefully they can slightly redeem themselves by coming out with some DLC that takes place in other areas of the Free-Marches or surrounding countries...with another city to explore!


Make Merrill smile and give us a new city!
*puppy eyes*

[Blue Face Beast]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

I guess that it's an engine limitation...Baldur's Gate was an awesome example on how to have a living city. Lots of npcs, as useless as they might be, certain quarters that each served a purpose, quick traveling, lots of dungeons, interesting / funny quests, people reacting to your ingame actions...just awesome for its time

So true!

I think that is the problem with giving Full Voice Acting to a game. It seems that it is too much work to populate towns and areas with many many civilians that have no purpose in the game but just to exist and having dialogues that are non-critical to game plots.

Remember Atkhatla in BG2. Now that was a lively city. So many things going on in the Waukeen Promenade. The circus tents, the animals, the vendors, craftmen, artists... EVERY single people in that town had something to say. Even clicking animals made them Raaarrr or whatever

Nowaday games are cool and sad at the same time. Nice voice-acting but so many less conversation opportunities, especially alot less non-relevant convos. At least in DA:O, civilians that had no mission or anything to offer still had some stuff to say but DA2 really removed it all and really looks like Mass effect 2... Non-critical dialogues is only happening via the companions. You can't even select-click most civilians, even less talk to them..

[Elizire]

I'm surprised to see only one mention of Vizima (The Witcher) in this thread about living cities. I still remember sitting back in awe and amazement when all the town folk went running for shelter whenever it started to rain.You may not have been able to interact with everyone, but there were plenty of people about, constantly in motion. Not a lot of animatronic statues that didn't move from a spot over the course of many years.

[Blze001]

CloudOfShadows wrote...
Definitely prefer the silent background NPCs to those from Oblivion who really just felt wrong

You didn't enjoy listening to people conversing with themselves about how they enjoy buying from a shop owned by themselves?

[Twilight_Princess]

I just thought of clock town in majora's mask today , I remember how so many different things happened and changed in those 3 days compared to the 10 years in kirkwall.

[Kimberly Shaw]

Heck, I remember playing Ultima 5 back on my commodore 128 WAYYYY back in the 80s and loving how the NPCs had a schedule where they would eat lunch at noon and go back to the fields to work then turn in for bed at night...and the wraiths would come out at night in certain towns during certain moon cycles...that was cool! Major villain NPCs existed and did things during the day, if you snuck into Blackthorne's castle to steal his flying carpet he may be there or he may have been holding court...*sigh*

Maybe the voice acting is responsible for the decline in life. I don't see why games have to go full voice acting though, some of us are fine to use our imaginations and read dialogue from non-important people; just give us a city that feels real. Or more real than the still life painting of Kirkwall for 7 years.

[Jorrkit]

Bioware just seems to miss the boat pretty consistently when it comes to designing memorable environments. That's something I've been dissatisfied with in just about all the Bioware games I've played (perhaps with the exception of Jade Empire). Think about it: doesn't Kirkwall remind you quite a bit of Taris from KOTOR? Or the Citadel from Mass Effect? They just feel like ant farms without the ants.

[Kimberly Shaw]

@Jorrkit, did you play Baldur's Gate 1 or 2? The city of Baldur's Gate and Athkatla were both pretty alive feeling (especially for the time) and reactive to your actions and quests. You could talk to "everyone" and while a lot NPCs didn't move, enough did and certain houses were empty at night or day because of schedules. Not quite like sandbox game cities but still much better that Kirkwall or Denerim (I'm not defending DA:O for dead cities, it was also guilty BUT gets a pass because it wasn't set in Denerim alone).

[WidowMaker9394]

It really is odd how small and bland Kirkwall, and thus the entire game world, is. One small and dead city, one dungeon/cave, two mansions, one warehouse, one shack, one "ambush" site and yet Bioware insists the game wasn't rushed?