202 réponses à ce sujet

[TheStrand221]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I haven't finished Assassins Creed Brotherhood because I don't want it to end. I tend to charge through games. ACII I just wanted to sit in the chapels and stare at the ceiling.

I've been playing it every night and have barely made any progress, it's too much fun to just explore and mess around in the city.  I love how atmospheric and even spooky some of the ruins are at night.  I've been fortunate enough to visit Rome, Florence, and Venice so AC II and Brotherhood really pulled me in when it comes to all of the great architecture.  And not only can you gawk at it, you can climb it too.

While I'm droning on in this thread again, let me just comment on the merchants again.  They're horrible in DA2.  The stalls are crappy looking and have almost nothing inside them, maybe a shield and then the "chest of holding" where all the wares seem to be.  The merchants themselves just loop the same "come hither" animation over and over.  In AC II and Brotherhood you have proper merchant stands, filled out with wares in their booths.  The Blacksmiths actually have a smith in the back of the stall, hammering away at an anvil.  It's a minor detail, but the aggregate of all those minor details is what creates a memorable and immersive atmosphere.

[neppakyo]

TheStrand221 wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I haven't finished Assassins Creed Brotherhood because I don't want it to end. I tend to charge through games. ACII I just wanted to sit in the chapels and stare at the ceiling.

I've been playing it every night and have barely made any progress, it's too much fun to just explore and mess around in the city.  I love how atmospheric and even spooky some of the ruins are at night.  I've been fortunate enough to visit Rome, Florence, and Venice so AC II and Brotherhood really pulled me in when it comes to all of the great architecture.  And not only can you gawk at it, you can climb it too.

While I'm droning on in this thread again, let me just comment on the merchants again.  They're horrible in DA2.  The stalls are crappy looking and have almost nothing inside them, maybe a shield and then the "chest of holding" where all the wares seem to be.  The merchants themselves just loop the same "come hither" animation over and over.  In AC II and Brotherhood you have proper merchant stands, filled out with wares in their booths.  The Blacksmiths actually have a smith in the back of the stall, hammering away at an anvil.  It's a minor detail, but the aggregate of all those minor details is what creates a memorable and immersive atmosphere.

I really need to pick up this game, you know if/when its on PC?

[TheStrand221]

neppakyo wrote...

I really need to pick up this game, you know if/when its on PC?

Brotherhood came out on PC on the 17th, I am sans console as well so I've just started playing.  I purchased it on Amazon as a digital download and have no complaints with the version.  Ubisoft finally changed their horrid DRM.

[Katzen]

Replay Origins and look around just the circle. You can talk to any NPC and get a comment, there's mages practicing magic on eachother, teaching, looking through books. That one tiny part of Origins had more life than all of Kirkwall!

[neppakyo]

TheStrand221 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

I really need to pick up this game, you know if/when its on PC?

Brotherhood came out on PC on the 17th, I am sans console as well so I've just started playing.  I purchased it on Amazon as a digital download and have no complaints with the version.  Ubisoft finally changed their horrid DRM.

Awesome! Gunna pick it up soon then, hmm. Need to save more. The Witcher 2 is comming out in May.

I do like using my Logitech PS2/3 clone controller for my PC. Used it for AC and ACII.

[Judge585]

While I found Kirkwall lacking in scale and liveliness, Assassin's Creed 2's cities didn't exactly thrill me either. AC series as a whole just feels lifeless compared to other open-world games. What's worse is that almost all of the buildings do not have interiors, except for the few with instanced dungeons with puzzles that make no sense. I would prefer Bioware to take a page from Bethesda's Oblivion in creating an open-world city.

[DTKT]

Judge585 wrote...

While I found Kirkwall lacking in scale and liveliness, Assassin's Creed 2's cities didn't exactly thrill me either. AC series as a whole just feels lifeless compared to other open-world games. What's worse is that almost all of the buildings do not have interiors, except for the few with instanced dungeons with puzzles that make no sense. I would prefer Bioware to take a page from Bethesda's Oblivion in creating an open-world city.

It's more of a balance between the two.

AC always went for big cities with huge crowds that dont "really" feel like humans. You always knew there was a system guiding everything.

DAII, on the other hand, is downright atrocious. You dont populate a city with a background like Kirkwall with 3 NPC low-res models with swapped color palettes.

[addu2urmanapool]

Katzen wrote...

Replay Origins and look around just the circle. You can talk to any NPC and get a comment, there's mages practicing magic on eachother, teaching, looking through books. That one tiny part of Origins had more life than all of Kirkwall!

Yup. I am replaying Origins right now. It is 10 times the game Dragon Age 2 is.

[Tripanna]

I agree wholeheartedly

[KLUME777]

Personally i liked Denerim, quite a lot. I much prefer Denerim to Kirkwall. Anyone agree?

[Cody211282]

KLUME777 wrote...

Personally i liked Denerim, quite a lot. I much prefer Denerim to Kirkwall. Anyone agree?

Agreed.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

neppakyo wrote...

TheStrand221 wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I haven't finished Assassins Creed Brotherhood because I don't want it to end. I tend to charge through games. ACII I just wanted to sit in the chapels and stare at the ceiling.

I've been playing it every night and have barely made any progress, it's too much fun to just explore and mess around in the city.  I love how atmospheric and even spooky some of the ruins are at night.  I've been fortunate enough to visit Rome, Florence, and Venice so AC II and Brotherhood really pulled me in when it comes to all of the great architecture.  And not only can you gawk at it, you can climb it too.

While I'm droning on in this thread again, let me just comment on the merchants again.  They're horrible in DA2.  The stalls are crappy looking and have almost nothing inside them, maybe a shield and then the "chest of holding" where all the wares seem to be.  The merchants themselves just loop the same "come hither" animation over and over.  In AC II and Brotherhood you have proper merchant stands, filled out with wares in their booths.  The Blacksmiths actually have a smith in the back of the stall, hammering away at an anvil.  It's a minor detail, but the aggregate of all those minor details is what creates a memorable and immersive atmosphere.

I really need to pick up this game, you know if/when its on PC?

They're all on Steam. They usually do an Ubisoft sale every now and then.

Favorite thing, killing bards. It's worth the penalty.

[CitizenSnips]

addu2urmanapool wrote...

Yes. It is galling beyond belief that they limited you to one city AND made it a generic pile of garbage.

[ruttunenn]

Quoting myself from an actual test i did:

So I went ahead and actually counted all the NPC`s you can chat with in act 2 in kirkwall during day.
And this accounts for the whole kirkwall excluding black emporium as its dlc.

What I counted as a chit chat NPC:
- Able to talk more than once.
- Not counting followers , as you can initiate conversation only when "quest" appers to them.

Totalling up to 4 NPC`s you can have a chat with , and I thought
Kirkwall was supposed to be a big city with a lot of people? On a funny
side not there is a talkative man in Hanged Man who does not talk to
you. Ironic? 

For an comparison I counted the NPC`s in DA:O
Denerim Market District. With same principle and even excluding
followers even though you can talk to them in DA:O. This was done with a
save prior to landsmeet. Totalling up to 11. Even if you dont count in the ones with
option just to say farewell ( 3 ) you still end up with much more than
in whole of kirkwall. And thats just in Denerims Market District.

For a third comparison I took Fallout New Vegas.
And for a fair count I just took Primm a pretty much the smallest post apocalyptic little town in the game.
Totalling up to the 4 that whole of Kirkwall had in just the smallest town of the whole game.

Just one of the many things making kirkwall feel so bland , dead , gray etc.

[WidowMaker9394]

Rome in Assassins Creed Brotherhood is the best city in a game yet, in my opinion. Better music, visuals and action than Dragon Age as well. Can't compare the story though as it's two vastly different things.

[fantasypisces]

ruttunenn wrote...

Quoting myself from an actual test i did:

So I went ahead and actually counted all the NPC`s you can chat with in act 2 in kirkwall during day.
And this accounts for the whole kirkwall excluding black emporium as its dlc.

What I counted as a chit chat NPC:
- Able to talk more than once.
- Not counting followers , as you can initiate conversation only when "quest" appers to them.

Totalling up to 4 NPC`s you can have a chat with , and I thought
Kirkwall was supposed to be a big city with a lot of people? On a funny
side not there is a talkative man in Hanged Man who does not talk to
you. Ironic? 

For an comparison I counted the NPC`s in DA:O
Denerim Market District. With same principle and even excluding
followers even though you can talk to them in DA:O. This was done with a
save prior to landsmeet. Totalling up to 11. Even if you dont count in the ones with
option just to say farewell ( 3 ) you still end up with much more than
in whole of kirkwall. And thats just in Denerims Market District.

For a third comparison I took Fallout New Vegas.
And for a fair count I just took Primm a pretty much the smallest post apocalyptic little town in the game.
Totalling up to the 4 that whole of Kirkwall had in just the smallest town of the whole game.

Just one of the many things making kirkwall feel so bland , dead , gray etc.

It's nice to see someone presenting evidence like this, I applaud you sir 
Really does shine some light on just how uninspired some parts of the game are 

[TheStrand221]

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

Rome in Assassins Creed Brotherhood is the best city in a game yet, in my opinion. Better music, visuals and action than Dragon Age as well. Can't compare the story though as it's two vastly different things.

Rome is awesome, but I personally prefer Florence and Venice in AC II.  I might be biased though, because I prefer Florence to Rome in real life as well.  The gameplay in Venice was outstanding though.  I remember when the carnival mission began, it far exceeded my expectations.  Stalking a huge party, your mask keeping you incognito, with music, dancing, acrobats, firebreathers, and fireworks... it just amazed me.  It was so much more than I was expecting it to be.  Brotherhood has yet to beat that experience for me, but I haven't completed it yet.

[TheStrand221]

ruttunenn wrote...

SNIP

Just one of the many things making kirkwall feel so bland , dead , gray etc.

Thanks, this is an interesting comparison.  NPCs to interact with are crucial in an RPG like DA2, but even that only provides a bit more immersion.  Not to refer to Assassin's Creed too much, but even though you can't talk to anyone it is far more immersive because the NPCs react to your presence.  They mutter if you push them aside, stare in awe as you do acrobatics, and flee in terror when a fight breaks out or you stab a guard in the throat.  Even if Kirkwall had many more NPCs to chat with, it'd still be immersion breaking to have them robotically ignore you as you slaughter thieves and cast firestorm right before their eyes.  The templars obviously being the most aggregious oversight, as others have pointed out.

[Sirsmirkalot]

The amount of NPC's on the streets might be related to technical limitations, but Kirkwall doesn't even sound like a big city. I stood still in the streets on several different locations and I just couldn't even *hear* the city. I checked my audiosettings again and again, but even with the volume of everything up to maximum, the background noise of the city is muffled at best.

I'm sorry Bioware, but Kirkwall was just badly conceived.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 30 mars 2011 - 07:52 .

[DragonRageGT]

Can't really compare Assassin's Creed with Bioware's RPG's. But check what CD Projekt did with Bioware's own Aurora engine in The Witcher's Vizima and there is a living and breathing city that is awesome to explore... And to take cover from the rain... oh the rain...

Modifié par RageGT, 30 mars 2011 - 07:59 .

[CaolIla]

Volourn wrote...

Kirkwall > Denerim

As for the Alienage stuff, it should be pointed out that the Kirkwall elves don't seem to be treated as poorly as the Denerim ones.

NEWSFLASH: Not all cities in Thedas treat elves exactly the same.

Yeah right.... like the elves in darktown are complaining that "They even don't let us work in the mines" or something similar... the work that nobody wants to do so they have to hire Ferelden's, because there is noone else to turn to.... elves don't even count Oo

And Greywall > Denerim ? Maybe... I don't count squarefoot while i wonder about (in fact I would count squaremeter), but there was more diversity in Denerim Market while wondering the first 10 meters (~30 foot)  then in every grey shaded corner of Greywall. 
Not sure I'm right? You can see like 5 buildings after walking those steps and they don't all look exactly the same, so there's your proof.

Modifié par CaolIla, 30 mars 2011 - 08:56 .

[Sabriana]

LocutusX wrote...

Sefearion wrote...

The mansion where Fenris is staying. Everytime I waltz in there I still see the same impaled corpses lying around despite several years having passed One of many examples

Oh gosh, that mansion was absolutely horrible.

I would LOVE to see a member of the DA2 "Fanboy Until Death" club defend the implementation of his mansion. After all, they say they are the majority, so it shouldn't be a problem for one of them to post something in this thread about why Fenris' mansion makes perfect sense the way it looks...

I'm not a fangirl, but I'll try.

1. They're all new bodies. He's got slavers coming after him all the time, and he kills them constantly. They just happen to fall into the same position every single time. It's coincidence. Just, you know, a huge coincidence.

2. They're mannequins. Yeah, that's it. He puts down life-like mannequins to deter any would be slave-hunter. That's why they don't rot, either, see. They aren't non-decaying real corpses, they're mannequins. Mannequins, I say!

3. Lousy house-keeping coupled with instant mummification.

4. Ah...., Uh...., Well....

There. Oh well, I tried.

But on a serious note, Kirkwall is extremely boring. I don't want any DLC to make Kirkwall come to life. I don't buy DLC on principle for any games  (<-- Personal opinion/choice/etc). Something like this should have been considered for the base-game, and not held back for more $$ purposes.

I really dislike this trend to put out incomplete base games, and I'm not gettin on that boat at all. I much rather look around for complete older games. Those older games are getting more and more appealing to me anyway. I still have IWD, the BG series and NWN 1, and believe it or not, I'm still playing them. And those are just the old bioware games, I have Fallout (Black Isle), Morrowind, Planescape - Torment as well, and I'm also still fascinated by those.

I highly doubt that DA II will fall into that. I'm trying to get through my 3rd playthrough (1.rogue, 2. mage, 3. warrior) and it feels like a chore. I'll most likely abandon my poor warrior because I have to force myself to play her. Poor girl, but I'm simply bored to tears already.

[JohnstonMR]

LocutusX wrote...

Sefearion wrote...

The mansion where Fenris is staying. Everytime I waltz in there I still see the same impaled corpses lying around despite several years having passed One of many examples

Oh gosh, that mansion was absolutely horrible.

I would LOVE to see a member of the DA2 "Fanboy Until Death" club defend the implementation of his mansion. After all, they say they are the majority, so it shouldn't be a problem for one of them to post something in this thread about why Fenris' mansion makes perfect sense the way it looks...

Where is it written that "fanboy" means "stupid"?  I'm a Bioware Fanboy.  I love them for the stories they create.  That doesn't mean everything is perfect, and while I am enjoying the story and the gameplay of DA2, it's clear they cut some corners I would rather they hadn't.  And Kirkwall is the most obvious example, Fenris' mansion being a good place to start.  For that matter, why are the "mansions" so damned small?  Three or so rooms do not a mansion make, and hell, Fenris' mansion has all but one room locked off.  It's pathetic.  Even the Hawke mansion is not much bigger than the hovel you start in.

[Kimberly Shaw]

Excellent comments from everyone.

I don't think Kirkwall treats their city elves any better than Denerim, excepting the Origins plot line about the elves/slavers/plague. Perhaps they do, but that's beyond the point I was trying to make.

Denerim's alienage just felt like a real place for the elves and fit with the lore of the alienage being separate from the city. To me, it feels like Kirkwall was made, and at the last minute someone at Bioware said "Oh CRAP! We forgot to put in the alienage!!! We're already late with developing this on EA's schedule!  Oh well. Too late now, let's just tack on a courtyard to Lowtown and stick a tree in it and call that the alienage? Drinks on me tonight guys. What a dummy I am."

Does anyone think that could be possible? Just me? Okay.

Someone made an excellent point about ambient sounds making the city feel alive. I really think they could have used that to much greater effect and it definitely would have made the city feel more alive. The Hanged Man did have the feel of a living pub (I think they should have put hookers in there and maybe a gambling table or something else besides just the bartender) and I remember it had good ambient noise.

Athlatka and Baldur's Gate (and the pubs therein) had wonderful ambient noise. That did help.

Modifié par Kimberly Shaw, 30 mars 2011 - 05:50 .

[addu2urmanapool]

ruttunenn wrote...

Quoting myself from an actual test i did:

So I went ahead and actually counted all the NPC`s you can chat with in act 2 in kirkwall during day.
And this accounts for the whole kirkwall excluding black emporium as its dlc.

What I counted as a chit chat NPC:
- Able to talk more than once.
- Not counting followers , as you can initiate conversation only when "quest" appers to them.

Totalling up to 4 NPC`s you can have a chat with , and I thought
Kirkwall was supposed to be a big city with a lot of people? On a funny
side not there is a talkative man in Hanged Man who does not talk to
you. Ironic? 

For an comparison I counted the NPC`s in DA:O
Denerim Market District. With same principle and even excluding
followers even though you can talk to them in DA:O. This was done with a
save prior to landsmeet. Totalling up to 11. Even if you dont count in the ones with
option just to say farewell ( 3 ) you still end up with much more than
in whole of kirkwall. And thats just in Denerims Market District.

For a third comparison I took Fallout New Vegas.
And for a fair count I just took Primm a pretty much the smallest post apocalyptic little town in the game.
Totalling up to the 4 that whole of Kirkwall had in just the smallest town of the whole game.

Just one of the many things making kirkwall feel so bland , dead , gray etc.

Your efforts are appreciated.