27 réponses à ce sujet

[shoggoth1890]

Ever since Bodahn mentioned he found Sandal, I've entertained the idea that he is not a dwarf at all, or is from some clan of reclusive primordial dwarves (not the real life condition kind).  When I ran across the primordial thaig in the deep roads I got excited.  It used the exact description I used (primordial) and it contained much more magic.  Sandal also seemed to want to wander off as you began to approach it (feeling called to home?).

A little bit ago, something occured to me.  Dwarven creation theory traces them to having "come from the stone"(not Oghren's rock baby joke) similar to how Adam is described as coming from dust.  What if the myth is true though?  Stone is an ambiguous word and doesn't really refer to anything specific composition-wise.  Lyrium can be considered a stone.  Is it possible that while most dwarves came from the more mundane type stone, Sandal comes from a race that came from lyrium?

Bugs have prevented me from playing any of my games all the way through, so I don't know if more details are given on this post Deep Roads.

[Vhalkyrie]

Very interesting! Sandal's origin story always has been Bodahn found him in the Deep Roads. The Primordial thaigs were commented as being something far different than what is traditionally known about dwarf origin. I hadn't connected the strange events surrounding Sandal to the proximity to the thaig, but I think you are right.

It is only mentioned in later Chapters as something of interest to the Grey Wardens. This is something never seen before, so the First Warden orders an expedition. We (as Hawke) don't know any more about it.

[shoggoth1890]

Glad to hear some postive feedback! Sandal has been my favorite character since the beginning of DA:O, since I'm intrigued by savant type characters, and this particular one had mysteries out the wazoo. Hopefully they flesh out his story more in DLC.

[Saelihnne]

I was so happy to see more of Sandal in DA2 and the lyrium theory is intriguing. I would love to know how he froze that ogre. Not enchantment. What "non enchantment"? Ancient primordial dwarven secret?

[Vhalkyrie]

We've seen Sandal lay waste before. In Fort Drakon before the archdemon fight, Sandal is covered in blood and surrounded by dead darkspawn. At the end battle, Sandal is surrounded by dead demons. But the frozen ogre is a new one. Which is why this theory about Sandal and a possible relationship to the primordial thaig is intriguing.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 28 mars 2011 - 06:29 .

[Bonus Pretzel]

I was wondering if maybe he is descended from the clan of dwarves who made that thaig you go to in the Deep Roads expedition. A pure lyrium idol would take a lot of skill to make (despite it's unfortunate "side effects"), and Sandal is naturally gifted with enchanting and such.

[shoggoth1890]

On a side note, notice the codex entry for the Profane says it was found on a wall in the Revann Thaig? Anyone know if that's the primordial thaig's name or the name of some other thaig that may have belonged to the Profane? Seems like a dual reference to Darth Revan and revenant souls (itself the inspiration for Revan's name).

[Vhalkyrie]

shoggoth1890 wrote...

On a side note, notice the codex entry for the Profane says it was found on a wall in the Revann Thaig? Anyone know if that's the primordial thaig's name or the name of some other thaig that may have belonged to the Profane? Seems like a dual reference to Darth Revan and revenant souls (itself the inspiration for Revan's name).

We've only seen one profane thaig at this point.  Remember Varric's reaction when you first encounter the Profane.  If even the dwarves haven't seen it before...

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 29 mars 2011 - 01:13 .

[matty_s]

Thats interesting:) really like sandal/bhodan and hope they will be in the third game......on a somewhat off tpoic note, anyone else immidiatly think flemmeth was visitng him when he mentions the old lady being scary/ being at the foot of his bed??

[Vhalkyrie]

My first thought was maybe mother, since mother had just died recently in my game. But I don't think Sandal would describe mother as 'scary'. Flemeth was the next thought. Creepy thought that Flemeth is lurking around my house at night, staring at Sandal.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 29 mars 2011 - 01:45 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Yeah, I've also posited that Sandal might be related to these dwarves who lived in the primordial thaigs. Sandal has some extremely unusual abilities...I mean, hello, Mr. Crystallized Ogre! I believe Sandal's response was "Not enchantment!" when you ask him about what he did to the ogre. That sure made me wonder about Sandal even more (plus, there's the prophecy you can get him to recite).

[Blacklash93]

I think being created from "the stone" is just saying you were created from the earth.

Everyone is, really.

[Vhalkyrie]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

shoggoth1890 wrote...

On a side note, notice the codex entry for the Profane says it was found on a wall in the Revann Thaig? Anyone know if that's the primordial thaig's name or the name of some other thaig that may have belonged to the Profane? Seems like a dual reference to Darth Revan and revenant souls (itself the inspiration for Revan's name).

We've only seen one profane thaig at this point.  Remember Varric's reaction when you first encounter the Profane.  If even the dwarves haven't seen it before...

I went back and checked the codexes.  The one for the Primeval Thaig was interesting.  Apparently the dwarves have seen something like that before, but they sealed the information and hid it.  It also mentions an idol just like the one found in the Kirkwall Thaig.  The dwarves could not identify the material it was made out of.

The codex for the profane was cryptic.  To the original question, I'm now thinking Revann Thaig must be somewhere else.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 29 mars 2011 - 02:34 .

[matty_s]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

My first thought was maybe mother, since mother had just died recently in my game. But I don't think Sandal would describe mother as 'scary'. Flemeth was the next thought. Creepy thought that Flemeth is lurking around my house at night, staring at Sandal.

Haha yea i definatly found it allitle creepy too

[shoggoth1890]

Yeah, figurative interpretation had me torn. Since it is a gameworld though, I'm open to the possibility that it can be more literal than we think. I seem to remember (could have it wrong though) one bit of information saying that while the humans and elves were made by the Maker, dwarves come from the stone. Although this is an expression of differences in belief, his mentioning the creation of the other races seems to imply that "coming from the stone" is a creation myth as well. Dwarves having creation myths about coming from stone occurs in other fantasy universes as well.

Vhalkyrie wrote...
We've only seen one profane thaig at this point.  Remember Varric's reaction when you first encounter the Profane.  If even the dwarves haven't seen it before...

Yeah, probably should have said "thaig to which Profane had been". Since only the scrawled note was found, the Profane were probably not there anymore, and whosoever saw them never managed to tell anyone.

[shoggoth1890]

Ooh, sounds like I have some more codex info to uncover still regarding this stuff. Got me excited again Vhal.

[StowyMcStowstow]

One of the major shortcomings of DA2 is that the most interesting part of the game, the Primeval Thaig, is never expanded on. It's like "oh, here's this ancient thaig that could rewrite dwarven history. Let's tell no one and not explore anything at all. Ever."

I swear Bioware better do something awesome with this, or so help me god I will rage so hard on this here forum.

[shoggoth1890]

Oops, primeval not primordial. I knew I should have checked first before calling it the primordial thaig. Still the same meaning, but my statement about them using the word "primordial" is incorrect.

[Zulmoka531]

matty_s wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

My first thought was maybe mother, since mother had just died recently in my game. But I don't think Sandal would describe mother as 'scary'. Flemeth was the next thought. Creepy thought that Flemeth is lurking around my house at night, staring at Sandal.

Haha yea i definatly found it allitle creepy too

I thought it was becuase I had sold Morrigan's robes of possesion to his father and Sandal had been using them as nightwear. Dammit, why did I bring that amulet to the Dalish!?!

[MadDjinn]

Given that it's already known that the current dwarves had plenty of other thiags, but lost them long ago, it's reasonable to assume that they're similar to a colony of a former empire where the colonists didn't bring enough knowledge to pass on to future generations.

Ie, they're knowledge of dwarven early society is basically lost. Given that they only write down the 'important' stuff and have culled historical facts to their liking, it's very plausible that there's other thiags that were around which they decided to 'forget'.

So, very plausible that Sandal came from one of those. Or he was just a normal dwarf and went on a deep roads expedition and then found a thiag with some dwarven device that infused him with all of this lyrium so that he can work magic.

Though, if you give him part of the idol, he doesn't really react to it, so I doubt he's seen it before.

[Torax]

MadDjinn wrote...

...

Though, if you give him part of the idol, he doesn't really react to it, so I doubt he's seen it before.

Ooo Enchantment!

I think they just like to keep the players on thier toes about the Merchant dad and the enchanter son. Plus Sandal is the ultimate reasoning for why Bodahn isn't dead. They were hunting for goods through dark spawn and even the deep roads together. Wouldn't he be dead by now without a large squad protecting them? It's called Enchantment and the occasional Not Enchantment.

[Saelihnne]

A Sandal manipulated by Flemeth would be a force to be reckoned with. I think she is the scary old lady he mentions. I hope that his innocence/purity/non enchantment can protect him from Flemeth and that the little dude is on our side when he makes an appearance again. Corrupted Sandal would give me serious nightmares.

[Birdhive]

Did anyone else encounter the Golem in the "Recently Opened Caverns" in Sundermount? It says some interesting things about the stone being alive under Orlais. I'm looking for screenshots where I captured the text; I'll come back and share when I find what it said exactly.

Edit: Okay, so I visited in Acts 2 and 3. 

In Act 2, it says (though I might have have missed the first sentence): "The gauntlet is passed.  Only a Shaperate brings the light . . . conversion begins."   Then it says: "The great stores are open, Shaperate.  Exchange for what is needed."  Then you can buy cool stuff from its store.

In Act 3 it says: "We were once more than we are."  Then: "Amgarrak tapped the blood, spilled within the Stone."  Then: "The Stone lives beneath Orlais.  Mathas gar na fornen pa salroka atrast."

[My Origins import was a Dwarf Noble and included the Golems of Amgarrak, in case that makes a difference.]

Anyway, since encounting this Golem, I have been wondering about its connection to the lyrium idol, Sandal, darkspawn, the codex info from the Enigma of Kirkwall findings (giant pools of blood under Kirkwall from the Tevinter imperium thinning the veil, etc.), and DA III.  There are a lot of creepily tantalizing tidbits!

Anybody speak Golem?

Modifié par Birdhive, 30 mars 2011 - 07:34 .

[shoggoth1890]

I've spoken to him some but not much. I'll head over to him later to see what kind of things he says.

[Spartansfan8888]

What Sandal says about magic and somebody rising again would make sense rising out of a Primeval thaig.