5 réponses à ce sujet

[Cactot]

I thought, just for fun I would compare the talents that modify base damage for both the rogue and warrior classes.  It surprised me exactly how many extra multipliers warriors are able to get compared to rogues.  Rogue weapons seem to do double the dps that warrior weapons do, though the warrior talents seem to more than offset the extra damage that rogue weapons do.  

Weapon speeds seem to be as such:
Warrior 2h:
1.65 attacks/second (oathbreaker, 26 dmg, 43dps)

Warrior 1h:
1.9 attacks/second (thudpuckers fist, 20dmg, 38dps)

Rogue dw:
1.86 attacks/second (blade of red birth, 22dmg , 41dps)  (doubled)

Rogue bow:
0.94 attacks/second (nevarran lancer, 70dmg, 66dps)

Under normal conditions 
warriors have +80% attack speed, +100% damage (only using cleave), +0.15x stamina over rogues, though they do lose out on some crit damage and %

For example, a warrior with 200 stamina (quite easily achieveable) would have this damage calculation with thudpucker's fist, assuming they use 50 stamina to activate their abilities, so they only get 22.5 bonus damage instead of 30).
(1.9 * 1.8)((20 + 22.5) * 2) = ~290 damage per second non crit
Assuming a cunning of ~15 (from + stats items), they would have bonus crit damage of 80%, for 523 dps when critting.

For a dw rogue using two blades of red birth, you would have:  (assuming a cunning of 40, and no obscurement)
(1.86 * 1.15)(44 * 1.2) = ~113dps non crit
Bonus crit damage of 145% = 276 dps when critting.

Some other factors to note that are hard to calculate without specific items in mind, rogues typically have additional +crit damage effects on their weapons/armor, they also respond 25% better to the "elemental weapons" sustain (they get a total of 4.27 attacks/second versus 3.42 for the 1h warrior), and haste effects, and slightly worse to heroic aura (they 10% crit is less useful to them).  

This may change in later acts (because rogue weapons scale significantly better than warrior ones do), but at the very beginning of act 2 this seems pretty spot on.  Thoughts?


Information I used to come to that conclusion is below

Rogue:
Assassin - 

• 10% critical damage
• Devious Harm (+1% additional crit damage per cunning)
• Pinpoint Strikes  (100% crit rate, available 50% of the time)

Shadow - 

• Pinpoint precisions - +25% crit damage
• Disorienting Criticals - +25% crit damage when obscured

Scoundrel - 

• Blindside - 120% damage when not being targeted

Specialist -

• Speed (with full upgrades) - +15% attack speed, +10% attack, +5% crit chance

Dual Weapon -

• Unforgiving Chain - 2 to 20% crit chance
• Lacerate - 10% chance to inflict additional damage (unknown calculation for actual damage, seems to be about what your weapon damage is)

Rogue totals:

• 35 + (cun-10)% bonus Crit damage
• Enough +crit chance that most attacks should be criticals
• +20% damage (blindside)
• +15% attack speed
• Lacerate

Warrior

Beserker

• Beserk - Stamina x 0.15 bonus damage
• Barrage - +50% attack speed, available 2/3 of the time

Reaver

• Blood frenzy - 1% bonus damage for each 1% health lost
• Sacrificial frenzy - Doubles blood frenzy (available half the time)
• Fervor - 30% attack speed bonus after each kill (lasts 10s, up nearly always)

Vanguard 

• Might - +10% damage, +25% crit damage
• Cleave - +100% damage, available 3/4 of the time
• Assail - +10% damage, AOE effect after each hit (unknown calculation), available 50% of the time
• Destroyer - reduces 10% or 50% of effective armor rate of enemies, varies in effectiveness based on enemy armor.

2h 

• Sunder - +10% crit chance
• Giants reach - adds 1m to aoe of attack

Warrior Totals

• +80% attack speed (most of the time)
• +100 - 120% damage  (yet again, most of the time)
• +25% Crit damage
• +stamina x 0.15 damage

[AreleX]

Interesting stuff. I'm more of an 'eyeball it' (SERVICEMAN CHUNG!) kind of person for sure, so it's cool to see the numbers actually broken down. Good work!

[IN1]

First of all, no offense meant, I really appreciate your apparently thoughtful and thorough post.

It's surely an interesting comparison, as far as AA is concerned. However, since the only sub-class that is predominantly AA-based is 2H warrior, I cannot see how this comparison contributes to our understanding of advanced game dynamics.

Practically, nothing can compare to better CCC synergy factors, +0.5 DamageScale increase Mark of Death provides, monstrous CriticalRange, auto-crit, and, of course, insane 7.31 and 5.48 damage factors of Assassinate and Vendetta, respectively.

There is no doubt a competently built 2H warrior should have a higher dps output than any rogue, especially considering it's AoE. Unfortunately, strong nuking >>> consistent dps in 90% of scenarios in DA2 (at least on NM difficulty).

[Cactot]

I absolutely agree that CCC + assassinate/vendetta can play a much larger role in boss takedown than consistent dps, though I would mention there are quite a few fights where huge AOE damage can make life much much easier as well (as long as you have ranged companions). I find hex of torment to be a good replacement for mark of death, though putting both on a boss is awfully sweet.

That being said, I just thought it was an interesting comparison, as (not counting special abilities) warriors seem to be higher dps, even versus single targets. This is contrary to what I initially expected. Obviously the above-mentioned abilities change that regarding burst damage though =D

[Roxlimn]

If you're referring to the beginning of Act 2 and purchasing is allowed, you should really be using Sliver Bow or Heaven's Answer for Rogues. DPS is about 107.

Another wrinkle:  A substantial number of Warrior DPS boosters are NOT passive.  This not only means that they're not always on - it also means that activating them involves activation animation, which consumes time.  A Warrior that activates Claymore, then Barrage, just used up a portion of his Claymore time activating Barrage.

Such powers are better considered as activated damage powers that give out damage over time and in conjunction with auto-attacks.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 28 mars 2011 - 09:42 .

[Cactot]

Yes, you are absolutely correct, though cleave has a very fast cast time (almost instantaneous) and is possible to keep up nearly constantly. If you only take the time to activate cleave and barrage (barrage first, as it is slower to cast and has a longer duration, so you waste less time), you would only really be missing out on a small amount of damage (assail and sacrificial frenzy), enough for them to be active the majority of the time.

Here is what it would look like if i took the refresh-time into consideration: (I should have done this the first time, sorry bout that)
(1.9 * 1.63)((20 + 22.5) * 1.75) = ~230 damage per second non crit
Assuming a cunning of ~15 (from + stats items), they would have bonus crit damage of 80%, for 414 dps when critting.

This still puts it well ahead of the rogue, though not nearly as much as before. I absolutely agree, I was just comparing the best weapon for each in act 1, I don't have the stats for the best weapon in each in act 2 or 3. If you could provide those for me, i would re-calc it with those numbers in question.