90 réponses à ce sujet

[Torax]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
Of course the Warden doesn't necessarily have to meet Flemeth again at all.  I had one who just didn't want to give the spooky looking book to the the mean apostate, and thus avoided the whole plot.

I'm not sure what the 'appointment' was either.

- Flemeth meets the Warden and Alistair when they retrieve the Warden papers.
- Flemeth rescues the Warden and Alistair from the tower at Ostagar, drops them off at the hut.
- Flemeth sends Morrigan with the Warden.

Couple months later:
- Lothering is attacked by darkspawn, Hawke and Co flees.
- Flemeth watches Hawke battle the Ogre, then takes them to port.  Sends Hawke with the amulet, and they go to Kirkwall.  Amulet won't be delivered for a year.

Warden may or may not come to kill her.  I'm not sure the appointment was with the Warden.  It's so nebulous, and Flemeth so mysterious, it could be anything.

More like Bioware covering their bases to justify if the players killed Flemeth. The rest is just a bunch of people reading way deep into things per usual.

[brain_damage]

Taura-Tierno wrote...
Although, she did say that she was just a "fragment", right? So, what if there already are several other fragments? That is, several Flemeth's running around the world, in various places. If she is something greater, which certainly seems to be the case, I wouldn't be surprised if she has several avatars.

"Must I be in only one place. Bodies are such limiting things. I am but a fragment cast adrift from the whole. A bit of floatsam to cling to in the storm."

Here's the entire conversation:

...why hello there, Ravel Puzzleworth, fancy meeting you here in Thedas!

[shoggoth1890]

I considered the "dying of old age" part before my first post, but quickly excluded it when I realized that the piece of her inside the amulet would be just as old. Perhaps the piece of her stopped aging after it was placed in there, but that buys her maybe 6 months? Depends on when she placed herself in there I suppose.

[Vhalkyrie]

shoggoth1890 wrote...

I considered the "dying of old age" part before my first post, but quickly excluded it when I realized that the piece of her inside the amulet would be just as old. Perhaps the piece of her stopped aging after it was placed in there, but that buys her maybe 6 months? Depends on when she placed herself in there I suppose.

I assumed the piece of her in the amulet would be indefinite, but just a guess.

Speaking of, why didn't I sell it?  My rogue Hawke would have done it.  

[Brockololly]

My question with Flemeth's resurrection was what body was it she resurrected into? I mean, in Origins its made a big deal how Flemeth needs a body to have ready to transfer into and thus the whole thing with her daughters and Morrigan.

So, assuming that the Warden killed Flemeth or her older body just gave out, what body is it that she used when she came out of the amulet? Presumably it was just a piece of her soul or something in the amulet, but how was she able to materialize into a body on Sundermount? If she's able to do that, what's the point worrying about getting a new body from her daughters?

Is that whole thing with the body snatching one big ruse?

[shoggoth1890]

Vhalkyrie wrote...
Speaking of, why didn't I sell it?  My rogue Hawke would have done it.

Oh if only we could have chosen what to do with it... Flemeth's hatred for me would have known no bounds, as she would spend several years staring at the inner lining of my storage chest.

[Taura-Tierno]

Brockololly wrote...

My question with Flemeth's resurrection was what body was it she resurrected into? I mean, in Origins its made a big deal how Flemeth needs a body to have ready to transfer into and thus the whole thing with her daughters and Morrigan.

So, assuming that the Warden killed Flemeth or her older body just gave out, what body is it that she used when she came out of the amulet? Presumably it was just a piece of her soul or something in the amulet, but how was she able to materialize into a body on Sundermount? If she's able to do that, what's the point worrying about getting a new body from her daughters?

Is that whole thing with the body snatching one big ruse?

Well, it was Morrigan who said that's how it works. We don't know if what she said was true. She could've been lying. 

Could also be that Flemeth did possess her daughters in that manner, but that it's more a convenience than something necessary. Maybe creating that amulet took a signifcant effort, and thus is not something she wants to do if she can avoid it. 

As for the appointment, I think it's something we'll see in future installments. Like that other important business that the Gray Wardens had to attend to. 

[RyuStrife]

Brockololly wrote...

My question with Flemeth's resurrection was what body was it she resurrected into? I mean, in Origins its made a big deal how Flemeth needs a body to have ready to transfer into and thus the whole thing with her daughters and Morrigan.

So, assuming that the Warden killed Flemeth or her older body just gave out, what body is it that she used when she came out of the amulet? Presumably it was just a piece of her soul or something in the amulet, but how was she able to materialize into a body on Sundermount? If she's able to do that, what's the point worrying about getting a new body from her daughters?

Is that whole thing with the body snatching one big ruse?

We have to keep in mind two things... 1) Flemeth is not your typical mage. She is extremely powerful and plays a foolish old woman ruse well. Also it is stated by Morrigan that she could beyond an Abomination. 2) Morrigan's info wasn't offhand. She took it from Flemeth's grimoire's. In which Flemeth obviously knew of and possibly planted the information.

Especially since as soon as she appeared in DA2 towards Hawke's resuce we knew she was a Puppeter.

[Kitaen]

Flemeth and the happenings are easily explainable.
Flemeth meets Warden for first time from Morrigan for the treaty scrolls.
Flemeth saves Warden and Alistair and sends them off with Morrigan to beat the Blight.
Flemeth sees potential about Morrigan finding out about her grimoire.
Flemeth takes a piece of her essence and puts it in an amulet.
Flemeth flies off, spots Hawke vanquishing Ogre, peaks interest.
Flemeth saves Hawke and Company.
Flemeth says to herself if it could be fate or chance in this meeting with Hawke
(that her idea of being attacked by Morrigan is potentially real and she found a 'way' to 'die' from her inevitable appointment and 'live' at the same time with a piece of her essence being smuggled and delivered to the Keeper at Sundermount)
Flemeth meets warden again at behest of Morrigan to kill her.
Warden chooses to kill Flemeth - that 'body' is dead
Warden spares Flemeth - Flemeth is able to continue on, and may or may not contact the Keeper for new instructions, as the 'piece' is still in the amulet, but not essential if she yet lives; life insurance.
Hawke performs Rite for the Departed extra 'piece' is brought out.
Flemeth can potentially merge her piece or destroy it or reseal it.

[Ezohiguma]

You can't kill Flemeth. She's too old and too powerful to fall to a few adventurers.

I'm sure Flemeth knew that Morg would eventually turn against her. She didn't get that old by being careless.

[Bayz]

In my first playthrough because I didn't know she was the hardest boss and the perspective of lying to Morrigan was terribly appealing after having 100 of aproval with her and she keeping to tell me she wouldn't teach me shapeshifter...

I actually only killed Flemmeth because she was a hard boss, if the fight were more trivial I would have bargained with her...not much love for Morrigan (and Flemmeth saved my ass in Ostagar after all)

[Vhalkyrie]

Yes, Morrigan says as much. She doubted that the Warden would permanently kill her, but she just wanted Flemeth's current form destroyed to buy her time. It doesn't make a difference either way, except I'm sure Flemeth won't forget that my Warden hunted her down.

[Bayz]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Yes, Morrigan says as much. She doubted that the Warden would permanently kill her, but she just wanted Flemeth's current form destroyed to buy her time. It doesn't make a difference either way, except I'm sure Flemeth won't forget that my Warden hunted her down.

Does it really matter? Will she risk to have her ass handed again by plotting or attacking the Warden, who will probably die 30 years after he\\she killed her form anyway?

She might just keep manipulating the Warden and Hawke to achieve her ends by third parties...whatever they are

[Tremere]

Personally, I saw no reason for killing Flemeth. I kept asking myself why I would do such a thing... all things considered. There is so much conjecture related to Flemeth, that you can never know where fact and fiction separate and on top of that, she saved my hide... for unselfish reasons... or so it seems. ;^) Maybe Morrigan is right and maybe she isn't, but I think Flemeth said it best in DA2... "She is a girl who thinks she knows what is what...". How can we truly know what Flemeth's motivations are one way or another unless "WE" do something that compels her to act in one way or another? Ultimately, if you're after an award or a hard battle, I suppose fighting her makes sense, but for me personally, I lean on what she alluded to about "being disgusted by humans who chase after mortal rewards when there are greater dangers at hand...". In this sense, killing Flemeth makes about as much sense as betraying Alistair. You may not like either one of them, but what have they ever done to you that would make you betray them?

Modifié par GabrielXL, 21 juillet 2011 - 09:49 .

[DRTJR]

In my Canon game My Warden's bit of a blood knight so he wasn't going to pass up the opportunity to fight Flemeth

[berelinde]

No, I killed her, though I'm regretting it now. I'm actually considering replaying Origins just so I can lie to Morrigan and let her live. How lame is that?

[Tremere]

berelinde wrote...

No, I killed her, though I'm regretting it now. I'm actually considering replaying Origins just so I can lie to Morrigan and let her live. How lame is that?

*chuckles* Consider it an opportunity to right a wrong.

[maxernst]

I didn't. I thought it was too dangerous to risk the last wardens in Ferelden against her, especially given that Morrigan doesn't expect her to stay dead. I don't particularly fancy making immortal enemies.

You don't actually have to lie to Morrigan. She just takes the book and assumes you killed Flemeth.

[Torax]

I kill her every time for the sport. Go hard or go home. That or my Warden was drunk again via Oghren's secret stash.

[Sepewrath]

I let her go once for the lulz, but I don't think there being two Flemeths would make any difference, she said it was a contingency plan, so she probably will just absorb the amulet version if she is still alive.

[Tremere]

maxernst wrote...

I didn't. I thought it was too dangerous to risk the last wardens in Ferelden against her, especially given that Morrigan doesn't expect her to stay dead. I don't particularly fancy making immortal enemies.

You don't actually have to lie to Morrigan. She just takes the book and assumes you killed Flemeth.

I agree. Besides, I'm playing as a mage and if you remember what was told to you in the Fade (upon completing the Harrowing), this makes all the sense in the world.

[elikal71]

I never killed her. I liked her and I did not kill her just because the misantrophic Morrigan says so. So I pretended I had killed her. I saw her as a sort of wise woman.

[Ayanko]

I actually believe Morrigan, even more when you Romance her. She seems generally scared when she supposedly finds out about her Mothers Plans. Not to mention the robes in Flemeths chest, the description said it all:-

The original intent of these robes is clear: a "welcome home" present from Flemeth, designed to sap Morrigan's will and ease the ancient sorceress's possession of her daughter. With Flemeth dead, these robes no longer pose a danger to Morrigan--but Maker help those who get in her way

It made me want to kill her twice. She didn't care about the blight, she only cared for the Archdemons soul, and then to take over a pregnant Morrigan's body, probably to take over the child after she raised it.

Modifié par Ayanko, 24 juillet 2011 - 03:33 .

[Icy Magebane]

Huh... after reading this thread, the Flemeth plotline is actually a lot more confusing than I thought it was. I mean... two Flemeths?  What?

Well, I guess it's not relevent to most of my games because I killed her in all but maybe 1 playthrough, and that was just to screw with Morrigan after fighting Flemeth so many times before.  As people have stated, it's too good a fight to just pass on...

But yeah, after reading this thread and actually playing DA2, it's not really surprising that Flemeth not being killed by the Warden wasn't addressed in-game.  Just one more loose end...

[Heidenreich]

shoggoth1890 wrote...

But Conrad always thinks you pointed a gun at him

I just read this, and wanted to point out, you can totally get him back if you're pro-mage by framing him. In act 2. "Frame Ser Conrad "Vernhart"


an easter egg, for us ME fans



And, to be fair, for those of you who did not kill her, which my dalish didn't do because... Asha'belenar.. *shudder*, then that peice could simply be a "window" to spy on the goings on in Kirkwall -- or maybe egg it on from behind the scenes?

Modifié par Heidenreich, 26 juillet 2011 - 12:03 .