66 réponses à ce sujet

[CrAzInAtOr]

 Both DA:O and DA:2 kind of put a bad spell on templars and almost put on a feel that most/all templars are complete radicals. So for all gamers who have that bias, set that aside and consider who you would rather support, if you would support either to begin with. 

Let the debate begin.

[Lord Gremlin]

Mages.

TBH I'm a pride demon. I support more fleshy husks for my kind.

[CrAzInAtOr]

So you would help the mages destroy the templars, and have them do whatever? Didn't Andraste say something along the lines of keeping mages out of power?
(Unless of course you aren't a Chantry fanatic)

[eye basher]

The mages have to pay for anders stupidity.The order dictates down with the mages kill them all

[The Baconer]

Mages.

And seeing how there's no way they'll just be accepted by the regular populace even if they win this war, they might as well go all the way, Tevinter style! It's fitting that the mundanes serve their betters anyway.

[Lord Gremlin]

The Baconer wrote...

Mages.

And seeing how there's no way they'll just be accepted by the regular populace even if they win this war, they might as well go all the way, Tevinter style! It's fitting that the mundanes serve their betters anyway.

That's the spirit! Totally agree.

[Nyaore]

Any faction of mages that will keep some of the techniques from the Circle alive, such as teaching young mages about their gifts and ensuring that they won't become fodder for demons later in life. Minus, of course, being locked in the tower for the rest of their lives and the abuse from authority figures. Likewise, I'd support any faction of templars that would be willing tgo compromise with the above faction and who would also help ensure that mages do not become the dominant force in Thedas rather than equal citizens.
Any blood mages or abominations will be slaughtered on sight, no exceptions.

Modifié par Nyaore, 28 mars 2011 - 09:21 .

[PsychoMunkys]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Mages.

And seeing how there's no way they'll just be accepted by the regular populace even if they win this war, they might as well go all the way, Tevinter style! It's fitting that the mundanes serve their betters anyway.

That's the spirit! Totally agree.

I think  we should learn from te last tervinter

there is only one way for mages to rule kil them al

don't give the regular populace the change to rise up again

like i sad before KIL THEM ALL

[Shadowrun1177]

I would support the mages, it's kind of funny how Andraste's "magic is meant to server man, not rule over him" has come to mean that mages must be locked in a circle stripped of all rights and treated as less than human. It's honestly no wonder mages turn to blood magic, demons, and flee the circle. If the circle was set up as more of school and the mages not completely stripped of their families, humanity and rights.

[Foolsfolly]

I'd support Templars.

It's the whole X-Men debate again. One the first movie's 'villains' is a Senator who's bill actually makes sense but we're supposed to dislike it because the heroes dislike it. Then the plot of the movie goes and proves exactly why a mutant registration makes sense.

Mages are too powerful, too many innocents will be placed in risk. The only choice is clear, we have to contain the Mage Threat.

[Kyriani Agrivar]

Personally I'd try to find a way to mediate the dispute.

I believe the Chantry/Templars is to blame for much of blood magic used in Thedas today because of the oppressive environment it fosters.

The Circle shouldn't be some tower to lock away mages that mages fear being taken to and away from their families. It should be a SCHOOL to teach young mages not only how to control their powers but also to foster POSITIVE relations between mages and templars. Mages should still be allowed to stay in contact with their families and foster healthy social relationships. I believe it's because the circle/tempalrs cut mages off from very basic human and familial social interaction that they are more prone to possession and turning to blood magic.

I'd have templars trained to deal not just with hostile mages but with demons. Templars should try to protect a mage from possession in the first place, not just wait around till it happens and kill them. If mages saw templars as a protector rather than an oppressor there'd be alot less hostility. I'd even try to foster the bond between mages and templars in some way. Encourage friendships even romances. Today's Chantry would see that as a weakness... a flaw that might make a templar fail at his duties but I think they fail to see the flip side... it would bolster a mage's resolve to avoid demons and blood magic having that kind of POSITIVE relationship.

So many of the things involving templars and the circle are negative to mages. It's no wonder they turn to whatever they can to escape. Remove the desire to escape by removing the negative relations and you ultimately have a more harmonious institution.

[CrAzInAtOr]

I believe that the templars should be a force (but not a ruling power) where in a sense their role is played more like a Grey Warden, they travel and follow rumors and leads of mages that have turned to blood magic. Keeping the bad mages at bay is what the templars should do. Putting them in a circle and locking them away only makes them want to turn to blood magic even more.


But has anyone considered this idea: What if the templars purposely keep the circles intact, and keep their grip tight because they KNOW that the mages will resort to blood magic to try and break free. That only helps their case in shutting the mages down and keeping themselves in power. As long as it looks like there is a problem with mages, the templars get to look as crazy as they want, as long as they get the job done.
It's all about power, even though they know the eventual fate of most of the mages they use their tactics anyway to keep themselves in power.


To me, that makes perfect sense.

[ushae]

I can see it now, there will be so many faces to this war. Extremist mages, mages who want a democratic society, templars who want to lay the smackdown on mages, templars who just want order etc. Makes me squee at the possibilities coming in the next game/expansions

[Everwarden]

Kyriani Agrivar wrote...

Personally I'd try to find a way to mediate the dispute.

I believe the Chantry/Templars is to blame for much of blood magic used in Thedas today because of the oppressive environment it fosters.

The Circle shouldn't be some tower to lock away mages that mages fear being taken to and away from their families. It should be a SCHOOL to teach young mages not only how to control their powers but also to foster POSITIVE relations between mages and templars. Mages should still be allowed to stay in contact with their families and foster healthy social relationships. I believe it's because the circle/tempalrs cut mages off from very basic human and familial social interaction that they are more prone to possession and turning to blood magic.

I'd have templars trained to deal not just with hostile mages but with demons. Templars should try to protect a mage from possession in the first place, not just wait around till it happens and kill them. If mages saw templars as a protector rather than an oppressor there'd be alot less hostility. I'd even try to foster the bond between mages and templars in some way. Encourage friendships even romances. Today's Chantry would see that as a weakness... a flaw that might make a templar fail at his duties but I think they fail to see the flip side... it would bolster a mage's resolve to avoid demons and blood magic having that kind of POSITIVE relationship.

So many of the things involving templars and the circle are negative to mages. It's no wonder they turn to whatever they can to escape. Remove the desire to escape by removing the negative relations and you ultimately have a more harmonious institution.

This is exactly how I feel. 

[sylvanaerie]

I have to say I agree with Kiriani. I think the Circle (as DA2 shows) can be an effective tool or completely abused in the right/wrong hands. I think mages need training (to strengthen their wills and prepare them for the rest of their lives to deal with demons). Even a prepared mage can be tricked (as Merrill is in the Feynriel Act 2 quest) and they should be trained in the proper use of their magics so they don't accidentally set fire to the neighborhood bully (despite he may REALLY really deserve it). The Circle would be a wonderful way to teach young mages and a home (possibly) for older mages who seek to mentor younger ones (There is no greater satisfaction in any job than passing on your knowlege IMO).
Throughout the game we are given examples of both types of templars. Templars who are basically nice guys who just want to do their job (even talk about the mages as their charges, they protect) like Ser Thrask and Ser Emeric and these guys are the ones my PC would probably be like (if I played a templar). We also have to deal with sadistic pricks like Ser Alrik and Ser Karras.
If I had a choice of what to play I think I'd have to do a game with one side then the other (it would be boring only one choice) but probably I'd play a mage at least first. It's not only my favorite of the three classes but it's very versatile. Second would have to be a templar but not if I have to play a ******. Then I guess I'd be mages all the way.
Since I've already played an Apostate (in DA2) I would guess they plan to go a bit further with the concept for any mage players in DA3.

[TJPags]

I'd be fine with reworking the Circle concept in some way - I laid out an idea for that in another thread.

However, barring that option, kill all mages.

[NvVanity]

I support the Mages. I believe that the right Mages in power (Aequitarians and Loyalists) can allow for a peace between the Templars and Mages and lead to a reformation of the Chantry and Circle system while at the same time sparking a cultural change in religious ideology leading towards a renaissance in Thedas.

However the Libertarians and possibly the Isolationists and Lucrosians may have to be disposed of. Too much of a risk from the first group being all blood magic crazy and the second two may be similar.

[Siansonea]

I support the mages, duh. World domination!

[LobselVith8]

Considering how mages have been forced into servitude for a millennia by the Chantry and its Order of Templars, I would support the mages fight for freedom and independence. If the Qunari become an issue, the mages can deal with their advanced technology like they did during the New Exalted Marches.

[Raiil]

I agree with KA.

While making sure that mages know how to control themselves is important, integrating them into society is as well. Spend your whole life thinking you're different/special/a freak, you start to believe that's the sum of your parts. Spend your life thinking you're a person who just so happens to have a special ability, and you're a member of society.

I don't believe in getting rid of the templars, for the same reason I don't believe in getting rid of police forces and an army. Just because you think people shouldn't kill/rob/infect passerby with virulent walking bomb doesn't mean they will. It's checks and balances. And personally, I think society would benefit from having mages in every day life. Think about it; take a mage who understands agriculture well enough that they can fiddle with it and some magic and we can learn new ways to refresh tired soil.

[Talladarr]

To be honest, what I'd prefer is what Kiriani suggests. HOWEVER, the Chantry would havfe to be completely abolished as it is before that's even remotely possible. The White Divine Would NEVER allow the mages that kind of freedom, while the Black Divine would never allow mages the be shackled in that way. The most realistic solution would be the rout of the isolationists. Take ALL the mages, and rather than stick them in some tower, have them form an entire community of entirely mages. The mages would teach the children to control it and they'd police themselves, killing an abominations on sight(Think about it, mages would find that easier than Templars, you know, magic and all) while Blood Magic, while discouraged due to the dangers, isn't forbidden. Think about it, slapping a "Forbidden" label on something only makes people wanna do it more. it's like having a big red button that says "DO NOT PRESS" of course you wanna press it!

Of course, there are limitations to what is allowed with Blood Magic. Mind domination, summoning demons and raising corpses would be strictly forbidden, however, for their Harrowing they could use blood rather than lyrium, using a little blood form alot of people, no one's life is lost and you have the power you need. After having a mage only community,even though some births would be mundanes, the magic would still run in their lineage, and eventually you'd get to a point where there would be mage-only births and there would be NO mundanes. The Templars could still exist, working much more like the Wardens, hunting down rogue abominations, while the main burden with eradicating abominations would be the Mages' job.

In the long run, this is the safest, most practical, and most logical course of action.

[Shadowrun1177]

Talladarr wrote...

To be honest, what I'd prefer is what Kiriani suggests. HOWEVER, the Chantry would havfe to be completely abolished as it is before that's even remotely possible. The White Divine Would NEVER allow the mages that kind of freedom, while the Black Divine would never allow mages the be shackled in that way. The most realistic solution would be the rout of the isolationists. Take ALL the mages, and rather than stick them in some tower, have them form an entire community of entirely mages. The mages would teach the children to control it and they'd police themselves, killing an abominations on sight(Think about it, mages would find that easier than Templars, you know, magic and all) while Blood Magic, while discouraged due to the dangers, isn't forbidden. Think about it, slapping a "Forbidden" label on something only makes people wanna do it more. it's like having a big red button that says "DO NOT PRESS" of course you wanna press it!

Of course, there are limitations to what is allowed with Blood Magic. Mind domination, summoning demons and raising corpses would be strictly forbidden, however, for their Harrowing they could use blood rather than lyrium, using a little blood form alot of people, no one's life is lost and you have the power you need. After having a mage only community,even though some births would be mundanes, the magic would still run in their lineage, and eventually you'd get to a point where there would be mage-only births and there would be NO mundanes. The Templars could still exist, working much more like the Wardens, hunting down rogue abominations, while the main burden with eradicating abominations would be the Mages' job.

In the long run, this is the safest, most practical, and most logical course of action.

Your still treating them as if they have a plague or something if you force them into mage only communities, I think Kiriani's school idea is best. Allow them to go to Circle's that are schools where they can leave to visit family and allow family to come and visit them. Some place they can be taught to control their abilities and how to avoid the dangers of being a mage. I would still do something similar to the harrowing at the end of a mages apprenticeship, though that would need some kind of overhaul too not sure exactly how. After that they should be allowed to live where they choose not kept in to tower till they are useful in someway like for a blight or whatever. Having them live among mundanes would help lessen fears of mages cause people will start to see them for what they are humans and elves with special gifts.

Thats my opinion at least, but I do agree with you on the fact that the current Chantry and Templars would need a major overhaul. The way it's set up now mages are treated as monsters or less than human. I'm not sure what Varric meant exactly when he asked Cassandra about him thinking they had given up on the Chantry but it sounds like the current Chantry is basically dead.

Modifié par Shadowrun1177, 29 mars 2011 - 03:45 .

[Talladarr]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...
Your still treating them as if they have a plague or something if you force them into mage only communities, I think Kiriani's school idea is best. Allow them to go to Circle's that are schools where they can leave to visit family and allow family to come and visit them. Some place they can be taught to control their abilities and how to avoid the dangers of being a mage. I would still do something similar to the harrowing at the end of a mages apprenticeship, though that would need some kind of overhaul too not sure exactly how. After that they should be allowed to live where they choose not kept in to tower till they are useful in someway like for a blight or whatever. Having them live among mundanes would help lessen fears of mages cause people will start to see them for what they are humans and elves with special gifts.

Thats my opinion at least, but I do agree with you on the fact that the current Chantry and Templars would need a major overhaul. The way it's set up now mages are treated as monsters or less than human. I'm not sure what Varric meant exactly when he asked Cassandra about him thinking they had given up on the Chantry but it sounds like the current Chantry is basically dead.

As long as the current chantry completely collapses, which it looks like it's well on it's way, the idea's completely plausible. To be completely honest it would be MUCH preferable to have a Circle school rather than an isolated society. A school is a much better idea, and as long as the chantry DOES collapse, then it could definitely work.

[SirDoctorofTARDIS]

The order dictates.