66 réponses à ce sujet

[Warden-Commander Shepard]

I'd recruit them all into the Wardens. There are darkspawn to fight!

[westiex9]

I support the Templars but would want them to reform some of their stances on mages.

Normal mages should be treated with respect and allowed to have contact with their family, maybe even some limited travel outside the circle(ala the Aes Sedai and their warders).

That said the circle in Kirkwall seems more extreme then anything in Ferelden so maybe just having Meredith removed will help the situation.

However over all Mages are still too dangerous to be allowed to police themselves.
And Anders and Orsino are still too willing to ignore  and forgive the abuses many mages are responsible for.

The tipping point was Anders actions, i won't side with a man who removes any chance for compromise or peaceful resolution. 

Death to Anders! Glory to the Maker!

Modifié par westiex9, 29 mars 2011 - 06:29 .

[MadMoskus]

eye basher wrote...

The mages have to pay for anders stupidity.The order dictates down with the mages kill them all

Something like this.

[erine_]

I think the removal of forces able to deal with the mages would be a complete disaster. The mages ARE dangerous and powerful and leaving such people - not always good and noble - to their own would lead to making Thedas a living hell. Finally of course people would want to protect themselves and some organization similar to templars would start fighting with mages and it would lead to no good place.

What I think would be a best solution, is to keep a Circles of Magi but leave it under jurisdiction of mages, with templars as some form of police. The young mages would be taken to the Tower, but the contact with theirs family would not be removed - the parents could visit them and the children could visit their hometowns for few weeks in a year. The young mages would be thought how to protect from demons, how to handle the magic and the danger of misusing it. After completition of training, the Harrowing would take a place. But the mage could refuse taking it if he/she don't feel ready. After passing it they would be free to leave the Circle and life theirs lifes. There would be need of reporting back to the proper Circle or Chantry few times a year, to be sure everything is alright with them, but other than that they would be free.
The ones who don't take the Harrowing would have to stay in the Circle until they are ready, but if they wouldn't want pass it, they could stay in the Circle forever. It would be possible for every other mage - if he/she wouldn't be satisfied/ never wanted to live outside, he/she could always take refuge at the Circle.
The templars would be responsible for hunting down abominations and searching for mages who haven't reported in time.
To make it even more revolutionary, in time even the mages could join the templars to make them more effective.

Anyway, I don't know why I'm trying to find solution for problems of fantasy worldl, but well, everyone have right to be bored, right?

Modifié par erine_, 29 mars 2011 - 11:07 .

[Gabey5]

well i have two options for my 2 characters

1. Mage equality, set up a self governing order ie Jedi order. They hunt their own that fall to the dark side etc, follow national laws and keep the peace

2. Create a grand new empire where mages rule and the chanty is utterly destroyed

My 2 mage hawk's fall in that direction

[The Angry One]

eye basher wrote...

The mages have to pay for anders First Enchanter Orsino's stupidity.The order dictates down with the mages kill them all

Fix'd.

[Icy Magebane]

I support whoever represents my main character best. I play different roles and try to stick with them...

[Lithuasil]

I support giving the PC in DA3 two different Origins, depending on class.

Either a mage in the circle, with the first two hours being first hand abuse, or the son of a templar, in a village that gets eaten by some bloodmage for some ritual. Could even be the same family, just playing as a different sibling, and the one you're not playing is frequently encountered as an adversary and...
nevermind.

[b0ksah]

I support da Sandal ... so I guess neither

[Lord Gremlin]

b0ksah wrote...

I support da Sandal ... so I guess neither

Enchant everybody?

[rma2110]

I want to be a Seeker just because I love Leliana's character. Plus, Cassanda and cool armor. What more could Hawke ask for.

Actually, I also have a Mage Hawke who ran away with Anders. It's an impossible choice that I am glad I don't have to make in real life. If this were I'd go with whatever is best for my sibling.

Modifié par rma2110, 29 mars 2011 - 12:36 .

[Rifneno]

Mages.  Without hesitation.  If I replay it 100 times, every last one will be mage-sided.  Templars are nothing but tyranical zealots using a religious figure's quote about Tevinter as an excuse to oppress and abuse a minority.   They rip children from their families and lock them in a fanciful prison where heavy-handed drug addicts can decide to basically steal their souls on little more than paranoid suspicion.  At which point, it seems some templars (Ser Alrik, anyone?) think such as an invitation to rape someone who no longer has enough conscious thought to care.  They claim they protect the public, but I very seriously doubt they prevent more deaths than they cause - even if we don't count the mages who die (or worse) from their atrocities.  How much larger do you suppose the population of Redcliffe would be if the templars' methods weren't so over-the-top?  Isolde isn't the only parent who wouldn't send their child to such a fate.  Put yourself in their place.  Would you send your child away, never to see them again, to a place so horrible that it's rumored the leading cause of death is suicide?  I didn't think so.  So instead we get apostates who aren't properly taught to handle their power and wind up doing something terrible.  Or apostates who do something terrible when cornered by the templars.

The templars are a malignancy that must be purged.  If their beloved Andraste was around to see the horrors committed in her name, she would be at the head of the army that brings them down.

[Eollodwyn]

westiex9 wrote...

The tipping point was Anders actions, i won't side with a man who removes any chance for compromise or peaceful resolution. 

Except that Anders was right and there is no compromise.  Elthina said herself that she had neither the power nor the inclination to be an instrument of change.  She didn't support any sort of reform.  The "compromise" Elthina offered was to scold Meredith for being a crazy ***** and tell Orsino to be good and get back to his cell.  She was never going to do anything to address the injustice of Circles and Templars as a whole.  And she's just about the most moderate person the Chantry has. 

The Chantry will never let the mages go, not while deals can still be made on their terms.  If your Origins PC asks for the Circle to be freed, the Chantry outright denies the request, even though it was made by the monarch of Fereldan himself/herself.  The Chantry has been oppressing mages for a long time and they've never loosened their hold.  They will never let the mages be free, so the only choice mages have for freedom is a violent rebellion; tear the Chantry down until it no longer has the power to dictate any rules. 

What Anders did made me angry and sad, and I genuinely liked Elthina, but the more I think about it the more I realize there is no "right" answer.   Anders picked the only thing that truly had a chance of leading to freedom for mages.

[Arppis]

Both. They both got room in the world, they just need to make it work. But if I had to choose again... Mages. I don't like people getting put down for something they really born with.

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

i would support the templars if they are more along the thinking of the fereldan tower. meredith was an extremist.

[Herakleia]

The Chantry, as it developed, made a simple mistake.  They created a military order, and then imagined that the moral authority of the clergy would always be in charge and enough to keep them in control.  At least in Highwall, it's fairly obvious that isn't working out in practice.  Grand Cleric Elthina is as much a pawn of circumstance as the Viscount is, and just as helpless to exert any control over events. 

[ZombiePowered]

In DA3 I will wholeheartedly support Hawke's beard and his close friend, Hawke's smoking jacket.

[sheppard7]

Templars are always shown to me as tyrants and suppressors. I can't support that and I feel they need to be wiped from the face of the planet like all the evil tyrants and suppressors in history.

[sheppard7]

The Angry One wrote...

eye basher wrote...

The mages have to pay for Anders and First Enchanter Orsino's stupidity.The order dictates down with the mages kill them all

Fix'd.

Fixed again.

If Anders did what he did to Merideth instead than he would have been a hero. I actually felt he killed the only sensible leader of the three in Kirkwall.

[Rifneno]

sheppard7 wrote...

If Anders did what he did to Merideth instead than he would have been a hero. I actually felt he killed the only sensible leader of the three in Kirkwall.

She was no leader at all.  She had power, but she adamantly refused to do anything.  I have no sympathy for her tbh.  The other two had reasons for their insanity, she was just a fool who assumed the Maker will clean up every mess the Chantry makes.  How much suffering could've been avoided if she'd just done her job and kept the templars from abusing their power?

But I digress...  I think that, despite contrary belief, Anders' attack on the Chantry will rally a great deal of public support for the mages.  Hear me out on this.  If he attacked the Templar Halls and the mages escaped without their brutal oppressors oversight, Thedas would see it as mages killing people and escaping.  Yeah, an apostate was the one who did it, but the others all took the opportunity to escape.  However if he attacks the Chantry, they see it as the templars attempting to murder hundreds or thousands of mages for the actions of one renegade (illegally I might add, since it clearly states only a grand cleric can order the Right of Annulment) who wasn't even part of the Circle.  Everything the mages do then is self defense.  For Anders himself, doing what he did will likely mean he will die and his name uttered only as a curse.  But for his cause, it shows everyone what the templars' true colors are.

[FaeQueenCory]

Mages. I support any downtrodden group... After all, I belong to one.

CrAzInAtOr wrote...

So you would help the mages destroy the templars, and have them do whatever? Didn't Andraste say something along the lines of keeping mages out of power?
(Unless of course you aren't a Chantry fanatic)

Stop misquoting the prophet.<_<
Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him.
Foul and corrupt are they
Who have taken His gift
And turned it against His children.
They shall be named Maleficar, accursed ones.
They shall find no rest in this world
Or beyond.
-Transfigurations 1:2
It's very clear from reading ALL of the verse that Andraste NEVER condemned all mages to helfire.... just those that misuse their gift from the Maker and use it to oppress others... After you read the WHOLE verse, you find that it condemns mages who use their magic to harm other people.

Quoting a holy scripture is completely acceptble to prove a religious point, so long as you say the whole thing and not just the tiny part that suites your whims. Religion should not be used like that.
/rant

It was really annoying in DA:O having all the templars tell me that God and His Bride believes that my mere existence is a sin, when Andraste clearly says that magic is a gift from God... And to quote Flemeth "Didn't your Maker make me too?"
It also makes sense that Andraste would feel that way about magic.... because all of her miracles SCREAM that she was a mage herself. And probably an "abomination" much like Wynne was, only instead of a Spirit of Faith (which seems to be the only good spirit to become a super powered abomination with) it was the super-spirit, called the Maker. Even her "pious devotion" evokes the practice that other Alamarri shamans did... and those shamans were all mages.
But that's a different thread's topic.

[sheppard7]

Rifneno wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

If Anders did what he did to Merideth instead than he would have been a hero. I actually felt he killed the only sensible leader of the three in Kirkwall.

She was no leader at all.  She had power, but she adamantly refused to do anything.  I have no sympathy for her tbh.  The other two had reasons for their insanity, she was just a fool who assumed the Maker will clean up every mess the Chantry makes.  How much suffering could've been avoided if she'd just done her job and kept the templars from abusing their power?

But I digress...  I think that, despite contrary belief, Anders' attack on the Chantry will rally a great deal of public support for the mages.  Hear me out on this.  If he attacked the Templar Halls and the mages escaped without their brutal oppressors oversight, Thedas would see it as mages killing people and escaping.  Yeah, an apostate was the one who did it, but the others all took the opportunity to escape.  However if he attacks the Chantry, they see it as the templars attempting to murder hundreds or thousands of mages for the actions of one renegade (illegally I might add, since it clearly states only a grand cleric can order the Right of Annulment) who wasn't even part of the Circle.  Everything the mages do then is self defense.  For Anders himself, doing what he did will likely mean he will die and his name uttered only as a curse.  But for his cause, it shows everyone what the templars' true colors are.

Attacking not the one who is the cause of the problem but the one trying to remain neutral will show people the problem?

Let's look at WWII so we can use a name everyone knows. So the Allies should have attacked Switzerland to show the rest of the world what Hitler was doing?

Modifié par sheppard7, 30 mars 2011 - 12:31 .

[Rifneno]

sheppard7 wrote...

Attacking not the one who is the cause of the problem but the one trying to remain neutral will show people the problem?

Let's look at WWII so we can use a name everyone knows. So the Allies should have attacked Switzerland to show the rest of the world what Hitler was doing?

Godwin's law bores me.  I just stated exactly why I think it would play out better for his cause this way.  Either debate the theory or don't, but jumping straight to the Hitler analogy for shock value is just crass.

[sheppard7]

Rifneno wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

Attacking not the one who is the cause of the problem but the one trying to remain neutral will show people the problem?

Let's look at WWII so we can use a name everyone knows. So the Allies should have attacked Switzerland to show the rest of the world what Hitler was doing?

Godwin's law bores me.  I just stated exactly why I think it would play out better for his cause this way.  Either debate the theory or don't, but jumping straight to the Hitler analogy for shock value is just crass.

I don't see attacking someone who wants to be neutral in a fight as raising awareness for an issue.