35 réponses à ce sujet

[JunMadine]

Hey what the topic says.  Did you make your sibling a grey warden or did you leave them behind during the expedtion?  Which path did you decide and why?  Which do you think is better for the story?

Modifié par JunMadine, 28 mars 2011 - 09:10 .

[SirGladiator]

Once I got that horrible scene when you take her there without Anders, I immediately loaded by pre-deep roads save and left Bethany behind so she would live. I didn't know you could take Anders along and make her a Warden. Ive never made her a Warden, but from what Ive read about that, and from what I saw when she ended up in the Circle, I'd say the Circle is the way to go. Certainly for the few years between then and the end of the game she 'might' be better off as a Warden, since there's more freedom. But after that she's got total freedom anyway, and if she was in the circle she has that freedom without the taint and the possibility of dying from it in another 25 years or so. Plus, its sort of implied that attractive mage girl you rescue from the insane templar guy during one of Anders quests, has a crush on Bethany, so thats gotta make being in the Circle a lot more pleasant than it otherwise would be .

Of course if ultimately Morrigan or Fiona are able to discover and reveal the cure for the whole 'dying from the taint' thing, then that would make the Warden option more viable, since then she would get that extra Warden-power without the whole 'early death' thing, but as it stands right now I've gotta say the Circle is the best choice for Bethany.

[sylvanaerie]

I've only had enought PTs to do Carver (with both destinies) and Bethany with one.
Carver hated being a GW, mostly because it wasn't his choice, and blamed Hawke for it. It was nice seeing him in more scenes, however small, but personally I prefer him to be a templar I think. It may not be the wisest or best choice but it was HIS choice, not something forced on him because of the Blight sickness.
For Bethany, I get the feeling she just wants a normal life and being a GW is anything BUT that. It means constant battle against the darkspawn till you end up dead early or dead under a rock in the deep roads on your Calling. And again its not something she chooses. From the letter I got from her, she was adjusting and actually enjoyed mentoring young apprentices, learned which templars to avoid and voiced an opinion that most of them were basically nice people just doing their jobs. She seemed (if not happy) at least content and she still kept in touch with her family, which is more than some mages get to do.
Next playthrough i may make her a GW though to see what's different for her that run.

[Corwyn]

I'm not sure on Bethany but I thought Carver did very well becoming a Grey Warden. When he comes back he's done a lot of growing up, he becomes his own man not in Hawke's shadow and the two of you make peace he even apologizes for some of his attitude earlier in the game.

[Kingthlayer]

I've had Carver go to Templars and Beth go to the GWs in both of my games. For future games, I don't really know until the time comes, but I don't like the idea have having a full team forced to do any mission, which would be the case in making them a GW since you have Varric, and then you need Sibling+Anders in your party.

I think it would have been better if they became a Grey Warden regardless of Anders being there or not. Sure it takes away their option to die, but then it allows the sibling to be used in a future game if it involves Hawke since I don't think they can die any other way. I thought for sure I'd be killing Carver on my mage Hawke but the option never came up and he sided with me in the fight against Meredith.

[Psycoman2]

On my first play through i got Bethany killed and was rather sad about it but i figured id just stick with it and see how it played out. Im going through again and this time i left her behind, im just a little concerned with how the end is going to go since i planned to side with the Templars this time. Anybody wanna spoil it for me?

[Lithuasil]

Unless all other options are "submit to the qun" or "death", joining the wardens is *always* the worst choice

That said, on my first playthrough I took Bethany into the deep roads thinking "well, I'll be extra careful". And then felt really, really awful for half an hour :|

[TheBlackBaron]

Lithuasil wrote...

Unless all other options are "submit to the qun" or "death", joining the wardens is *always* the worst choice

That said, on my first playthrough I took Bethany into the deep roads thinking "well, I'll be extra careful". And then felt really, really awful for half an hour :|

Yeah...no. 

"Joining the gulag built over a hellmouth guarded by crazy people and surrounded by corrupt blood mages and abominations" sounds quite a bit worse than the Wardens. Might just be me, though. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 28 mars 2011 - 10:59 .

[Lithuasil]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

Unless all other options are "submit to the qun" or "death", joining the wardens is *always* the worst choice

That said, on my first playthrough I took Bethany into the deep roads thinking "well, I'll be extra careful". And then felt really, really awful for half an hour :|

Yeah...no. 

"Joining the gulag built over a hellmouth guarded by crazy people and surrounded by corrupt blood mages and abominations" sounds quite a bit worse than the Wardens. Might just be me, though. 

Well carver gets to be warden in said gulag, and sniff all the good stuff

As for bethany (who all along has doubts if she isn't better off in the circle, and who, unlike most players piloting her, does not like killing things very much), joining said gulag is a whole lot better, then spending the next few years frying darkspawn, before dying in some forgotten part of the deep roads. Might just be her, though 

[sylvanaerie]

Psycoman2 wrote...

On my first play through i got Bethany killed and was rather sad about it but i figured id just stick with it and see how it played out. Im going through again and this time i left her behind, im just a little concerned with how the end is going to go since i planned to side with the Templars this time. Anybody wanna spoil it for me?

You can defy Meredith's Kill them all command (and Cullen will back you up) if you side templars with Bethany in the Circle.  heheh the **** queen from hell didn't like that either...I thought she was gonna burst a blood vessel in her brain on the spot when Cullen countermanded her order!  Man, I really love the way his character has 'grown' over the years the game takes place!

[Another_Golden_Dragon]

I told Carver to join the Wardens with my Mage Hawke*. This after a reload from half-way thru the following act, and ME feeling rather bad, since I was going pro-mage, and (thru story) thus facing the possibility of killing (or being killed by) Carver.

* Btw: That particular mage typically tried to use diplomacy. she ssems to have a bad definition of the word, tho...

[atheelogos]

Macgarnickle wrote...

I'm not sure on Bethany but I thought Carver did very well becoming a Grey Warden. When he comes back he's done a lot of growing up, he becomes his own man not in Hawke's shadow and the two of you make peace he even apologizes for some of his attitude earlier in the game.

This Carver does well with Wardens. With that said I can't stand to see him go with the Templars. That stings too much.... I mean really I was hurt when he did that.

[TheBlackBaron]

Lithuasil wrote...

As for bethany (who all along has doubts if she isn't better off in the circle, and who, unlike most players piloting her, does not like killing things very much), joining said gulag is a whole lot better, then spending the next few years frying darkspawn, before dying in some forgotten part of the deep roads. Might just be her, though 

Nonsense - she survives those six years quite handily and is far away from any possible retribution that the Templars might bring down. 

Circle!Bethany might be happier, but after six years she's right back where she started, an apostate on the run, this time with the Templars across Thedas out for blood. Warden!Bethany is free. 

You seem to greatly overestimate the odds of a Grey Warden actually dying in battle whenever we have these conversations - they're generally the most badass combatants in Thedas, and in non-Blight years it's probably no more dangerous than being a city guard. 

[sylvanaerie]

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

I told Carver to join the Wardens with my Mage Hawke*. This after a reload from half-way thru the following act, and ME feeling rather bad, since I was going pro-mage, and (thru story) thus facing the possibility of killing (or being killed by) Carver.

* Btw: That particular mage typically tried to use diplomacy. she ssems to have a bad definition of the word, tho...

Templar Carver doesn't have to be killed by your Hawke if you side mages.  In fact, when you come out Meredith orders your death and he tells her "i'm not killing my sister/brother for you."
Awesome lil bro moment   I liked both playthroughs with him as a GW and as a Templar for different reasons.  And I'm glad I played both through to see what they were like.

[Lithuasil]

I hear that whole taint-lethality rate is pretty high. Somewhere around 100%. That being said - it's a lot different then being a city guard.
See, for us as players, fighting raiders (who ingame never give up) or Darkspawn, makes no difference. But I'm pretty sure, to someone who doesn't sit on a couch in his living room, there's a slight difference between fighting thiefs when you see them, and actively seeking out things that look like they just walked out of your worst nightmare, and consist of one hundred percent murder-frenzy.

Have you ever wondered, why every even remotely senior warden we meet, is a distanced, amoral psychotic? :|

[sylvanaerie]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

As for bethany (who all along has doubts if she isn't better off in the circle, and who, unlike most players piloting her, does not like killing things very much), joining said gulag is a whole lot better, then spending the next few years frying darkspawn, before dying in some forgotten part of the deep roads. Might just be her, though 

Nonsense - she survives those six years quite handily and is far away from any possible retribution that the Templars might bring down. 

Circle!Bethany might be happier, but after six years she's right back where she started, an apostate on the run, this time with the Templars across Thedas out for blood. Warden!Bethany is free. 

You seem to greatly overestimate the odds of a Grey Warden actually dying in battle whenever we have these conversations - they're generally the most badass combatants in Thedas, and in non-Blight years it's probably no more dangerous than being a city guard. 

Anders experiences in Awakenings where Ferelden has a less militant templar staff than Kirkwall does shows the Wardens are no 'safe blanket' from the Circle.  His backstory also shows this. 
They may not be in a Blight but something has them moving and actively fighting as Stroud's behavior in Act 2 and Nathaniel's quest in Act 3 shows.  Just because there isn't a Blight doesn't mean there are no threats.  Or perhaps the damn Architect is working on a new Blight for the Free Marches and that's the 'mission' the GWs are undertaking.
And I can't picture Bethany wanting to fight every day for the rest of her life with nothing else to look forward too but dying young and under a rock in the deep roads.  That said, I am curious enough to see what GW Bethany says and does in my next playthrough.  I may think one thing but that won't stop ,me from playing it different next time just to see what I can.

[Shadowrun1177]

Your assuming "Warden" Bethany would be free, for all we know all mages including Warden's are targets. I find it funny as hell how everyone is so sure that the Wardens coveted neutrality will protect mages with something as huge and world changing as the events of DA 2. Somehow I doubt the Warden's will be able to remain completely neutral especially with the extremist who might want to target Wardens for harboring mages or mages who feel the Wardens are just using mages.

[Vicious]

Carver makes a lame Templar.

He pretty much becomes a different character as a Grey Warden, however. "so much more than I was" in his own words.


Bethany, well she takes to being a Circle Mage a lot better than Carver does as a Templar. And takes to the Grey Wardens a bit less.

[atheelogos]

And for my Warrior I let Bethany go to the Circle. I like/hate the idea of her being taken away. Living in the Circle for 6 years really shows her the plight of mages. That should really motivate her to fight hard in this war with the Templars.

[TheBlackBaron]

Lithuasil wrote...

I hear that whole taint-lethality rate is pretty high. Somewhere around 100%. That being said - it's a lot different then being a city guard.

Yeah, after thirty-plus years, by which point in a setting with Thedas' level of technology you're already approaching your sell by date anyway. 

See, for us as players, fighting raiders (who ingame never give up) or Darkspawn, makes no difference. But I'm pretty sure, to someone who doesn't sit on a couch in his living room, there's a slight difference between fighting thiefs when you see them, and actively seeking out things that look like they just walked out of your worst nightmare, and consist of one hundred percent murder-frenzy.

Have you ever wondered, why every even remotely senior warden we meet, is a distanced, amoral psychotic? :|

Hardly - Ducan is pretty quickly established as being one of the Father to his Men-types, Riordan comes off as a decent guy, and Sophia Dryden was actually fighting for idealistic reasons against what she viewed as an unjust king. 

So that leaves Avernus, but one out of the four is pretty damn good in my book. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 28 mars 2011 - 11:50 .

[TheBlackBaron]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Anders experiences in Awakenings where Ferelden has a less militant templar staff than Kirkwall does shows the Wardens are no 'safe blanket' from the Circle.  His backstory also shows this.

You may notice that aside from one independently-acting Templar, who is somewhat unhinged and quite obsessed with catching Anders and falsely informed about laws regarding conscription, Anders upon joining the Wardens is quite removed from Templar harrasment. 

[Shadowrun1177]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Anders experiences in Awakenings where Ferelden has a less militant templar staff than Kirkwall does shows the Wardens are no 'safe blanket' from the Circle.  His backstory also shows this.

You may notice that aside from one independently-acting Templar, who is somewhat unhinged and quite obsessed with catching Anders and falsely informed about laws regarding conscription, Anders upon joining the Wardens is quite removed from Templar harrasment. 

What sylvanaerie is refering to is the story Bioware posted on the forums before the game released where the "New" Warden Commander who replaces your Warden allows a Templar to join the Wardens to keep an eye on Anders. I'm not sure where the story is exactly but it's somewhere on the forums. It tells how he ends up joining with Justice, and the events that led up to his fleeing the Wardens to Kirkwall.

[sylvanaerie]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Anders experiences in Awakenings where Ferelden has a less militant templar staff than Kirkwall does shows the Wardens are no 'safe blanket' from the Circle.  His backstory also shows this.

You may notice that aside from one independently-acting Templar, who is somewhat unhinged and quite obsessed with catching Anders and falsely informed about laws regarding conscription, Anders upon joining the Wardens is quite removed from Templar harrasment. 

She was not falsely informed, she just chooses not to follow the law.  And she isn't a lone agent, she has others with her. We kill them all but I am certain she isn't the only templar to feel that way.  Kirkwall is filled with templars who ignore the law when it's convenient for them.
Anders spends his entire time in Kirkwall scared the Templars will find him.  Just because he isn't 'with' the wardens, it doesn't change his being  a GW.  That's not like a coat you can put on or take off. 
And in his backstory he was nearly killed by templars when he was still an active warden. 
The GW's are not a be all and end all of the mage/apostate problems.
And with the amount of poo that just hit the fan at the epilogue of DA2, what makes the GW's a safe haven for mages?  A lot of things are going to change.  I bet not even the GW's are going to offer much of a safe haven after this.
But like I said, I'll play my game differently and send Bethany off with the GW's next playthrough because i want to see.  Personally having little sis retire to the country and have lots of plump lil youngun's (mage or not) seems a much nicer ending than "she died young in the deep roads".

[Lithuasil]

Yeah, after thirty-plus years, by which point in a setting with Thedas' level of technology you're already approaching your sell by date anyway.

I'm pretty sure Wynne / Orsino / Irving are all well beyond their late-forties.

Hardly - Ducan is pretty quickly established as being one of the Father to his Men-types, Riordan comes off as a decent guy, and Sophia Dryden was actually fighting for idealistic reasons against what she viewed as an unjust king.

So that leaves Avernus, but one out of the four is pretty damn good in my book.

The duncan that blackmails people into joining without telling them, sends them out into darkspawn territory to go flower picking for him, and shanks people who don't want to drink his poison, the guy who thought jumping on a dragon midair was a brilliant plan, and the girl who ordered politically neutral wardens to overthrow a king that didn't suit her, via bloodmagic.

Three perfectly sane, level headed individuals, I'm just burning to get to know personally

[sylvanaerie]

[quote]Lithuasil wrote...

[quote]
Yeah, after thirty-plus years, by which point in a setting with Thedas' level of technology you're already approaching your sell by date anyway.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure Wynne / Orsino / Irving are all well beyond their late-forties.



By Toolset i believe Wynne is 50, Irving is 70.  Loghain, still an active warrior is 50.  I believe the Cousland parents are 50 as well and still active people.
Bethany is 18/19 at the point you do the Deep roads (if the events of Act 1 consume a year, mom mentions the dead sibling as being 18).  So at most she is 20, putting her expiration date around 50 if she gets the entire 30 years. That isn't a given.
Duncan was a GW only 20 years before the events of DAO and he was going to go to his Calling soon after dealing with the Blight if he didn't die during it.  Riordan also says he became a GW with Duncan and 'the taint will not spare me much longer'.  Duncan was a fresh recruit in the events of "The Calling" which takes place roughly 20 years (give or take) prior to the events in DAO.