68 réponses à ce sujet

[sylvanaerie]

Well I have to say I can't condone blowing up a building full of people (and surrounding areas also probably as full) which would be collateral damage all to 'strike a blow' for a limited segment of the population. The Circle in Kirkwall was WAY out of whack but I get the feeling Anders's resentments toward templars and the Circle stemmed more from them taking him at an older (less tractable age) to the Circle in Ferelden (which while its not Club Med, is a lot better than Kirkwall). His anger had a lot more selfish than selfless feel to it but that was just my perception. I could be wrong.
In fact, Anders actions have not 'saved or liberated' the mages since that will come when one can change how people think and feel about them. Sure, there are no Circles now and a lot of the templars seem to have rebelled against the Chantry in the fight (or that's the epilogue I got) as well, but true liberation won't come with one act of violence that caused a revolution. I think he has in fact made things worse, giving those who might normally have been moderates a cause to hate the very people he was trying to strike out for.
And now that there are no Circles to take them to what happens to those children who HAVE no one to protect/train them? If not for being locked up in the barn till the templars came, Wynne would have been stoned to death for setting the boy's hair on fire. How many other mage children died because there was no one to protect them? Kids like Jowan whose parents hate them and call them cursed. Where do they go now that there are no Circles left to train/protect them?
You want to change the world, you don't blow **** up, you change the way people think.
And it was Hawke, NOT Anders who did that, leading the fight to oust Meredith and Orsino. And the true victory lies years from now (unless we get some cheesy easy resolution in a sequel) when people's hearts and minds can be changed, which thanks to Anders giving the regular Thedas citizen a really good example of why mages should be locked away isn't going to be any time soon I suspect.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 29 mars 2011 - 02:41 .

[jmbrosendo]

I killed him, and will every time, even if romancing or supporitng mages.

Actually am romacing him now, with a female Hawke, and can't see any other outcome. Not after killing murderous blood mages/abominations, along the course of the entire game, even when actively supporting the mages and feeling the templars repression as unaceptable.

It's just too much of a cruel act of terrorism to allow him to walk away cleanly. Well, unless I happen to play an ammoral bastard. Which I might try in another playthrough.

[Chuvvy]

I didn't kill him. Let the world burn, I'll skate on the glass.

[Trophonius]

lazuli wrote...

Trophonius wrote...
If Petrice's exploitation of qunari exiles is anything to go by, it's that the Chantry is a sordid institution that will go through immeasurable lengths to further its cause, even if it means to resort to forbidden magic (which it fundamentally preaches against). Anders taking the initiative was deserved in that sense. Of course, I'm not holding him completely unaccountable, but to defend the Chantry's innocence is superfluous.

I hesitate to blame entire institutions, groups, religions, etc. for the actions of a few zealots.  You're using "Templar logic."  Well, the Templars might actually make more sense here because basically every mage in DA2 is a Blood Mage or an abomination.  Except Bethany.

Well, it's not just one zealot that ruined my perception of the Chantry. I've only used one, out of many examples of why the Chantry isn't blameless. Is it any wonder why those mages conceded to blood magic? The Chantry has forced down a situation that made these guys turn to desperate measures. It's obvious that it wasn't going to intervene and make the situation any better. The witch hunts, rape, torture and murder of mages all for the sake of intimidation. Bludgeoning mages to submission is next on their agenda, after all.

Modifié par Trophonius, 29 mars 2011 - 03:00 .

[LobselVith8]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

 I killed him, but I'm having second thoughts.

Anders wanted to free the mages, and his actions ultimately proved to bring forth his goal: the Circles ended up rising up and gaining independence by freeing themselves from the Chantry and templar control. I suppose part of the issue is whether you agree with what the Chantry does or not. I personally didn't agree with what the Chantry or its military did. What Anders did was arguably necessary to set in motion the mages breaking free from Chantry control, so they could see that they didn't have to live in servitude.

[LadyJaneGrey]

lazuli wrote...
Well, the Templars might actually make more sense here because basically every mage in DA2 is a Blood Mage or an abomination.  Except Bethany.

I don't think Ella was a blood mage or abomination.  My Hawke figured if she was going to turn to demons or cutting, she would have done so when faced with Ser Olric (sp?) or Justice/Anders.  Go Ella!

[Rann]

Sorry, Anders fans -- the greatest joy I had in this game was putting him out of his misery. (I only wish a similar option existed for Sebastian.)

[TJPags]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

lazuli wrote...
Well, the Templars might actually make more sense here because basically every mage in DA2 is a Blood Mage or an abomination.  Except Bethany.

I don't think Ella was a blood mage or abomination.  My Hawke figured if she was going to turn to demons or cutting, she would have done so when faced with Ser Olric (sp?) or Justice/Anders.  Go Ella!

True.  She and Bethany are the only non blood mages/not abominations I can remember in the game.

Ella should have been romanceable.  Bethany, hook your big bro up!!!!!! 

[Avilia]

Two completed runs - killed him both times. I almost hesitated the first time due the danger of his martyrdom. However, it does appear from what Cassandra says that the Champion is the rallying figure head not Anders. (Odd when both of my girls supported the Templars, but I digress).

I didn't find it a difficult decision - he's not a character I find particularly appealing in DA2. Which considering I was a rather huge fangirl before is a little sad to me.

[Querne]

I killed him, but it didn´t feel like justice at all, more as necessity.

His main failure was to melt with Justice, but it must have felt reasonable at that moment and was no bad deed.
At least it was the abnomination who kaboomed the chantry.

I guess Ill try to rivalromance him and try somehow to get him there:

Modifié par Querne, 29 mars 2011 - 04:53 .

[Critical Miss]

1st playthrough played female mage, no romance, sided with Templars, killed Anders.

2nd playthrough played male mage, romanced Anders, sided with mages, let Anders live.

Looking back at what Anders did, I agree with it. It was in the power of the grand cleric to cool the flames but she didn't. Mages were being pushed over the edge. If one group of people subjugates another group of people, expect retaliation. Justice is a hero in my books.

[Warden-Commander Shepard]

I told him to leave. Then he showed up again! I couldn't believe he showed his face again and I told him to just go. **** used me but I didn't have the cold heart to kill him.

[Warden-Commander Shepard]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Well I have to say I can't condone blowing up a building full of people (and surrounding areas also probably as full) which would be collateral damage all to 'strike a blow' for a limited segment of the population. The Circle in Kirkwall was WAY out of whack but I get the feeling Anders's resentments toward templars and the Circle stemmed more from them taking him at an older (less tractable age) to the Circle in Ferelden (which while its not Club Med, is a lot better than Kirkwall). His anger had a lot more selfish than selfless feel to it but that was just my perception. I could be wrong.
In fact, Anders actions have not 'saved or liberated' the mages since that will come when one can change how people think and feel about them. Sure, there are no Circles now and a lot of the templars seem to have rebelled against the Chantry in the fight (or that's the epilogue I got) as well, but true liberation won't come with one act of violence that caused a revolution. I think he has in fact made things worse, giving those who might normally have been moderates a cause to hate the very people he was trying to strike out for.
And now that there are no Circles to take them to what happens to those children who HAVE no one to protect/train them? If not for being locked up in the barn till the templars came, Wynne would have been stoned to death for setting the boy's hair on fire. How many other mage children died because there was no one to protect them? Kids like Jowan whose parents hate them and call them cursed. Where do they go now that there are no Circles left to train/protect them?
You want to change the world, you don't blow **** up, you change the way people think.
And it was Hawke, NOT Anders who did that, leading the fight to oust Meredith and Orsino. And the true victory lies years from now (unless we get some cheesy easy resolution in a sequel) when people's hearts and minds can be changed, which thanks to Anders giving the regular Thedas citizen a really good example of why mages should be locked away isn't going to be any time soon I suspect.

One thing I'd like to point out.  Moderates are people who have already taken sides but do not wish their opinions broadcasted.  The Grad Cleric was one of these.  She claimed to only serve the Maker, but she was serving Meredith by doing nothing.  She secrectly wanted the two factions to come to blows, but could not say this directly.  So when you say that Anders made people who hadn't made up their minds turn against the mages, you are only partially correct.  Anders made people who mistrust mages quietly feel like they could do it openly.  Which isn't good either, silly Anders.

[TheChosenKing]

 As anti-climactic as it was, I killed him. Not only as punishment, but I felt as if it was too risky to let him go, and I certainly wasn't going to bring him with me.

[Ox_Mox]

Warden-Commander Shepard wrote...

One thing I'd like to point out.  Moderates are people who have already taken sides but do not wish their opinions broadcasted.  The Grad Cleric was one of these.  She claimed to only serve the Maker, but she was serving Meredith by doing nothing.  She secrectly wanted the two factions to come to blows, but could not say this directly.  So when you say that Anders made people who hadn't made up their minds turn against the mages, you are only partially correct.  Anders made people who mistrust mages quietly feel like they could do it openly.  Which isn't good either, silly Anders.

???  A moderate is someone who doesn't prefer either side.  Somebody who secretly agrees with one side is not actually moderate.  How exactly do you know the Grand Cleric's secret opinions and goals?  Again the whole thing about Anders not making anybody hate mages is pure random speculation.  Why couldn't somebody previously with no issues against mages hate them after they blew up a church and rebelled against the chantry?

Also I think people on this forum hugely overestimate the Grand Cleric's actual power.  Didn't the ingame lore talk about how the templars in Kirkwall had become disconnected from both the chantry and traditional government?  I suspect that the Cleric controlled the templars the same way the Viscount controlled the city.  If she stepped too far out of line she'd probably end up on the wrong end of Meredith's crazy sword.



Anders died even though I was romancing him.  No room in my party for terrorists.  Even if he was so hell bent on killing the cleric he could have just slit her throat while she's standing in the church totally unprotected for 10 straight years.  No reason to blow up an entire chunk of the city.

Modifié par Ox_Mox, 29 mars 2011 - 06:20 .

[nokori3byo]

Has there been a poll for this yet? It seems like a pretty even split between knifers and forgivers. I spared him on my first playthrough, which was partly in keeping with my decision to support the mages and partly in anticipation of a major headache trying to do the final portion of the game with no healer. Later, I went back a couple hours to revise the slaughter of the Dalish by taking Merrill into my custody. I also switched to supporting the Templars and decided to stick a knife in Randy Andy for the sake of thematic continuity. It felt like the right thing to do, especially in the middle of a military emmergency when expedience would have been a legitimate issue. There's a further pragmatic concern in the fact that killing Anders severed my own connection to the Chantry bombing (of which there would have been considerable suspicion in the aftermath).

That look on his face as the knife went in bugged me though. I fully expect ed Hawke, who was girt with a heavily modded Bloom axe, to execute his commrade with a quick, crushing blow to the spine. What actually happened felt underhanded and dirty.

[bztang]

1 - spared him and kept him
2 - knifed him in the back
3 - spared him, told him to leave but he decided to come back and fight me because I sided with Templars, lost Sebastian for no reason

Screenshots of his reappearance:
http://image76.websh...53GIWtdd_fs.jpg
http://image83.websh...53FFhFxJ_fs.jpg

Modifié par bztang, 29 mars 2011 - 06:49 .

[Sabriana]

Rogue Hawke killed him, she was merciful. Plus she didn't want a mass-murderer run around loose, who knows what Justice/Vengeance would come up with next.

Mage Hawke told him to take a hike. She was not about to let him off easy, and become a martyr. She wants him to see what terror his actions have wrought for the mages of Kirkwall in particular and mages in Thedas in general.

[Sesshomaru47]

Killed him, 3 times now. When the xbox version if patched it will be 4 times dead for Anders.