29 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramus Quaritch]

There should be a third option: "Me."  Conquer Kirkwall.  Lead the Kirkwall guard, and the citizens of Kirkwall as a milita in a revolution.  They are no doubt sick of blood mages murdering people and templars running the city with an iron fist.  With them and your squad as a special forces of sort, you could easily win the battle for the city.  Expel the Templars and mages, killing any who resist or refuse to exile themselves.  Execute both Meredith and Orsino because both of them deserve it greatly, especially Orsino.  Take control of Kirkwall and make it an independent city state (with a small decision as to whether you are the sole ruler or if Kirkwall becomes a republic).  That would be epic.

[TJPags]

I want a 4th option . . . .walk away and let them rot.

[Ramus Quaritch]

I have considered that too, but there are people in Kirkwall who Hawke needs to dole out justice (or vengeance) to. Like Orsino. There's no way I'd let him go after his role in Leandra's death. Also, there's Hawke's sibling who is trapped in the city due to the conflict.

Modifié par Ramus Quaritch, 29 mars 2011 - 12:31 .

[Trophonius]

TJPags wrote...

I want a 4th option . . . .walk away and let them rot.

Second this option. Kirkwall is pretty disgusting. Its people would rather yield to impassiveness than take a stand against the injustices of a deteriorating system. Most of the time, it felt like the only ones getting involved were mages and templars while the citizens themselves did nothing. I'm starting to agree with the Arishok about the city falling to ignorance.

[Medhia Nox]

Sorry, no matter how much I agree with you, Bioware had a story to tell you - wasn't it deep?

[IanPolaris]

I agree with the OP. The two big reasons that the situation in Kirkwall got a bad as it did, is you had an exceptionally strong willed, and politically ambitious knight-commander and the checks to her power, namely the Viscount (civil government), the Grand-Cleric (nominal religous authority), and First-Enchanter (Magical Authority) were all either weak or ineffectual.

I blame the Grand Cleric and Viscount most of all. Both were nice quality individuals, but they had no backbone. It's one thing for the Grand Cleric to be a moderate, but she NEEDS as grand-cleric to be able to put her foot down and keep the radicals under control or the radicals will have field day (see Mother Petrice). Same applies to the Viscount.

So in that final scene when Merideth says, "Don't call my a tyrant unless you can give me a better option" I wish I could have said, "Alright Knight Commander! You want a better option. Someone that can keep the city under control? I will give you one."

"Guard Captian Avaline. As Champion and Protector of Kirkwall, I am declaring Martial Law. Seal the Gallows and I will proceed to knock some sense into some empty heads! We need a Viscount and I'll have to do until the city finds someone they like better."

-Polaris

[trying_touch]

umm... this is the "side with the templars" option... you become viscount... the templars rebel against the chantry, effectively dissolving them, and you kill both leaders...

how does Orsino deserve it more than Meredith? they're both mostly blameless (Meredith went crazy from the idol, Orsino resorted to blood magic, for the first time in his life, in self-defense) and just trying to protect their peeps...

[Medhia Nox]

@IanPolaris - I would follow this man's leadership of Kirkwall to a glorious renaissance.

[Ramus Quaritch]

trying_touch wrote...

umm... this is the "side with the templars" option... you become viscount... the templars rebel against the chantry, effectively dissolving them, and you kill both leaders...

how does Orsino deserve it more than Meredith? they're both mostly blameless (Meredith went crazy from the idol, Orsino resorted to blood magic, for the first time in his life, in self-defense) and just trying to protect their peeps...

As for Orsino, he played a role in Leandra (mama Hawke's) death.  He knew who Quentin was and what he was doing.  He corresponded with Quentin for years, congratulating him on his necromancy research while people were being abducted and murdered.  He did not tell people what Quentin was doing.  He did not turn Quentin, a serial killer and a representation of why mages are imprisoned, into the guards.  He could have stopped Leandra's death, but he did not.  Therefore he is responsible.  For that, he must die.  If I were in Hawke's shoes and found that out, there'd be no way I'd side with the mages and there'd be no way Orsino would be walking out of that tower. 

Modifié par Ramus Quaritch, 29 mars 2011 - 01:01 .

[yoshibb]

TJPags wrote...

I want a 4th option . . . .walk away and let them rot.

Thank you! After Anders blew up the Chantry, I was just like "Ok, I'm done. Have fun guys!" 

[IanPolaris]

trying_touch wrote...

umm... this is the "side with the templars" option... you become viscount... the templars rebel against the chantry, effectively dissolving them, and you kill both leaders...

how does Orsino deserve it more than Meredith? they're both mostly blameless (Meredith went crazy from the idol, Orsino resorted to blood magic, for the first time in his life, in self-defense) and just trying to protect their peeps...

No this is not (quite) the Templar Ending.  What I would do (if the game permitted) is to day, that "I am the Champion.  I am unilaterally assuming the role of both Viscount and Grand Cleric for the duration of the Emergency.  Knight Commander Merdith, you are out of line.  Only the Divine or her agent can authorize an annulment of the circle and you know it. I am placing Anders under arrest and I call upon the Templars to keep all mages under house arrest until *I* get to the bottom of this."

I expect Orsino would even agree to that.....

-Polaris

[WarLord Manik]

ok, this may be a bit off topic, but is there a way to save Leandra? i heard from a friend that there was an alternate ending to the "all that remains." quest.

[PsychoWARD23]

WarLord Manik wrote...

ok, this may be a bit off topic, but is there a way to save Leandra? i heard from a friend that there was an alternate ending to the "all that remains." quest.

From what I know it was in the game but cut-out for some reason.

[TJPags]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

WarLord Manik wrote...

ok, this may be a bit off topic, but is there a way to save Leandra? i heard from a friend that there was an alternate ending to the "all that remains." quest.

From what I know it was in the game but cut-out for some reason.

It seems they planned one, put it in an early build, but took it out.

Something about "everyone chose it".

So now, no chance to save her.

[WarLord Manik]

TJPags wrote...

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

WarLord Manik wrote...

ok, this may be a bit off topic, but is there a way to save Leandra? i heard from a friend that there was an alternate ending to the "all that remains." quest.

From what I know it was in the game but cut-out for some reason.

It seems they planned one, put it in an early build, but took it out.

Something about "everyone chose it".

So now, no chance to save her.

well that sucks. guess i'll have to get used to seeing "frankinmom."

[WarLord Manik]

that sucks, guess i'll have to get used to seeing "frankinmom." heh, oh well....

[WarLord Manik]

blasted double post! it said the first one wouldn't work. i feel tricked.... haha

[vigna]

WarLord Manik wrote...

TJPags wrote...

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

WarLord Manik wrote...

ok, this may be a bit off topic, but is there a way to save Leandra? i heard from a friend that there was an alternate ending to the "all that remains." quest.

From what I know it was in the game but cut-out for some reason.

It seems they planned one, put it in an early build, but took it out.

Something about "everyone chose it".

So now, no chance to save her.

well that sucks. guess i'll have to get used to seeing "frankinmom."

That's Lady Grey! Not your Mom.

[Raiil]

I want a 'defend Kirkwall from every **** trying to kill us' option. Not the templars, not the mages, but the innocent citizenry. Gather the guard, hold the line, kill Orsino and Meredith, save all the mages, templars, and regular citizens who, too, have had quite enough of this bull****, and rebuild Kirkwall from the ground up.

Because honestly? **** the politics of that city.

[WarLord Manik]

Valentia X wrote...

I want a 'defend Kirkwall from every **** trying to kill us' option. Not the templars, not the mages, but the innocent citizenry. Gather the guard, hold the line, kill Orsino and Meredith, save all the mages, templars, and regular citizens who, too, have had quite enough of this bull****, and rebuild Kirkwall from the ground up.

Because honestly? **** the politics of that city.

here here! also, nice Fable 2 refrance other guy! haha

[Chuvvy]

TJPags wrote...

I want a 4th option . . . .walk away and let them rot.

I think most games should have a "Screw you guys, I'm going home." option.

[Downtown1]

Kirkwall is already a city-state, that's what all the cities in the Free Marches are (as implied by the 'free')

[Akron1983]

Option number 5: stumble across a timemachine, go back and warn myself away from that crazy place!

"Go back! Stay away! Everyone are F***ing insane in Kirkwall. And its so strange, you want to go home but you cant. Its like some unknown force is preventing from even thinking the thought. And all the people we will have to kill... oh my god all those people. Take my advice, just run! Run to the darkspawn!"

[Pandaman102]

Option 6: Immediately kill both Meredith, Orsino, and the templars/mages with them, toss the bodies into the smoldering crater of the Chantry, pat Anders on the cheek and tell him history will only remember that day as the Maker punishing the chantry for not being harsh enough on mages, knife him, remind Varric to spin that particular yarn, go home and sleep.

[Torax]

Also keep in mind. Elthina is just a symbol for the followers of the Chantry. It's Meredith who has the power in Kirkwall. It doesn't function there like it does in other places. Elthina might be able to get her to back down in public but behind doors. Meredith doesn't have to do a damn thing that Elthina says.

The public likes to think there is something that keeps check on the Knight-Commander. There is no check for it in that city. The Knight Commander there basically is killed by their enemies, killed by other Templars if they refuse to step down or may even go crazy and commit suicide. It's not the same nice barely healthy relationship between Gregoir and Irving either.

The most telling thing is sebastian's claim to Aveline. " Grand Cleric Elthina is worried about her. She's stopped taking the Chantry's advice."

Modifié par Torax, 01 avril 2011 - 08:18 .