213 réponses à ce sujet

[PsychoWARD23]

 There's no "right" answer, both are people who feel like they were doing the right thing but may have gone to extremes to do so. You have the option of killing them or letting them go, very, very similar. 


Funny, these were the hardest choices for me in both games.

Modifié par PsychoWARD23, 29 mars 2011 - 01:40 .

[TJPags]

Wait, you mean the choice of what to do with them is similar, or the choice they made was similar?

I may agree with the former, but not so sure about the latter . .

[Asdara]

I was thinking a bit about Loghain today and Anders. I tried to play Anders's situation from different angles and I'm very interested in him, but I didn't give Loghain a chance until someone around here, KnightsofPhoenix I think was the name, with a Gargoyles avatar anyway, talked me into it by proxy. Changed my views on a lot of things within the game. So I played Anders a bunch of ways because you're right their choices are both on a very large scale and on different extremes.

[sylvanaerie]

I think he means "To kill or not to kill" as both being similarly hard choices to make.

[MyKingdomCold]

Loghain was cast as the villain from the start. It was a lot easier killing him.

[Lithuasil]

There was no reason to kill Loghain, and there's no reason to kill Anders :|

[TJPags]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I think he means "To kill or not to kill" as both being similarly hard choices to make.

That's kind of what I figured.

That said, took me about a minute to decide to kill Loghain.

Took me about 5 second to find the "kill Anders" option.

[sylvanaerie]

I think the major difference between the two is Loghain does his crap all through the game.  Anders offers only vague hints of what he will do.  Frankly I was creeped out during his Act 2 quest when he went all Vengeancy over a mage kid he was originally trying to protect.
Loghain at least was pretty predictable.  I could picture in my head "how can this possibly get worse?" and yep he didn't disappoint me.  Anders however wasn't consistant in his brand of crazy.  One minute he was a relatively decent guy, the next he was a raving out of control loon.
I half expected him to start spinning his head around, speaking in tongues and spewing pea green soup by the time he goes all terrorist in act 3.
As to the question of killing them both.  I found it really easy.  I play "in the moment" and at that time in the game, both have pissed me off enough I could kill them.  Thinking of next playthrough letting Anders go but siding with the templars so I get to actually kill him when he tries to stop me

[Suron]

Lithuasil wrote...

There was no reason to kill Loghain, and there's no reason to kill Anders :|

wow.  Yah a guy that abandons his King and is a traitor doesn't deserve to die.  A guy that allowed Howe to do the things he did.  And sold elves into slavery.

no he doesn't at all.

sorry but that's just stupid.  One can argue that Loghain can seek redemption in the Wardens...but not that he doesn't deserved to die for the crap he did.  He was mad, powerhungry and a traitor.

or you're saying you're ok with slaves, murder, and the like?

whatever.  I'm not getting into this idiotic argument on a DA2 forum.

And Anders commited murder.  Yes mages should be free'd and Mages working WITH Templars to police themselves just as any other citizen.  But he commited murder.  In his fight for mages he did the VERY THING that would justify why mages should be caged.

But after your Loghain crap I shouldn't be surprised I guess.

lol.  I'm out.

Modifié par Suron, 29 mars 2011 - 02:14 .

[Sleepicub09]

Lithuasil wrote...

There was no reason to kill Loghain, and there's no reason to kill Anders :|

there was big reasons to kill both of them.

[Lithuasil]

^ Not for the characters I played at this point there wasn't, that's all I'm saying.

[Chuvvy]

Killing the ruler of a nation, most of the army, almost all the grey wardens and starting a civil war because you're afraid of Orlias while the darkspawn are at your doorstep and there's an Archdemon floating around. Versus. Killing the Grand Cleric and all of the people in the Chantry in an explosion that I admit was rather badass to remove compromise and to start a rebellion of Mages against the Templars that snowballs into a full on threeway war between mages, templars and the chantry. No, no I don't see the similarity. Well I suppose they both involve killing in large numbers but most things in DA seem to.

[Auora]

Asdara wrote...

I was thinking a bit about Loghain today and Anders. I tried to play Anders's situation from different angles and I'm very interested in him, but I didn't give Loghain a chance until someone around here, KnightsofPhoenix I think was the name, with a Gargoyles avatar anyway, talked me into it by proxy. Changed my views on a lot of things within the game. So I played Anders a bunch of ways because you're right their choices are both on a very large scale and on different extremes.

The book, Stolen Throne, also gives you a completely different impression of Loghain. It makes it almost hard to kill him, as he was a very likable character in the book.

Having more of an understanding for any character will likley change your judgement of them if they do something bad.

[TJPags]

Auora wrote...

Asdara wrote...

I was thinking a bit about Loghain today and Anders. I tried to play Anders's situation from different angles and I'm very interested in him, but I didn't give Loghain a chance until someone around here, KnightsofPhoenix I think was the name, with a Gargoyles avatar anyway, talked me into it by proxy. Changed my views on a lot of things within the game. So I played Anders a bunch of ways because you're right their choices are both on a very large scale and on different extremes.

The book, Stolen Throne, also gives you a completely different impression of Loghain. It makes it almost hard to kill him, as he was a very likable character in the book.

Having more of an understanding for any character will likley change your judgement of them if they do something bad.

I didn't think so at all.  Book didn't change my mind one bit.  If anything, it actually made me more convinced he should die.

I understand that other people may feel differently.  This is just my personal opinion.

[LobselVith8]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

There's no "right" answer, both are people who feel like they were doing the right thing but may have gone to extremes to do so. You have the option of killing them or letting them go, very, very similar. 

Funny, these were the hardest choices for me in both games.

I spared Loghain and recruited him into the Wardens as the Surana Warden (my canon run), and he showed a great deal of depth in the conversations at the campfire. The Stolen Throne gives much more insight into his background that he only eludes to in Origins, but I didn't see him as a villain. He stepped up as a Warden. Anders and Loghain both grew up living under oppression, and it shaped the men they became. Loghain and Anders are very complex characters, and I doubt everyone is going to agree on them. Anders wanted to free the mages, no matter the cost, and maybe one day mages across Thedas will revere him as a hero who made the first blow against their oppressors.

[Ymladdych]

One point about Loghain..."Leliana's Song" hints that he may not have been exactly wrong about Orlais's intentions. 

***Spoiler***

The planted papers were Orlesian military locations, and according to Reverend Mother Dorothea (Divine Justinia V in DA2), if Ferelden got their hands on those papers, there would be war.  The inference being, of course, that King Maric would've found those locations to be threatening.

***/End Spoiler***

Also, I see Anders as a mix of Loghain and Morrigan.  The parallels to Loghain have already been made, but here are the parts of Morrigan I see in him: he has a higher goal that he must see through, even at the cost of his love/friendship; he manipulates the PC into helping his cause without divulging the *why* of it...he just says (to a Hawke lover), "Trust me, my love...it's for freedom!" (sound familiar?); he warns you several times about getting too close to him and he emotionally withdraws from a Hawke lover in Act III (also sound familiar?); one of his *click* commentaries is "You've been a good friend...better than I deserve." (Morrigan says pretty much the same thing to a friendly fem!Warden when you give her the Real Grimoire.)

There are more, but those are the big similarities I noticed.

[MadMoskus]

Good comparison. But Loghain is mad. Anders is just egoistic.

[RazorrX]

killed them both with no hesitation.

I would have killed anders earlier, to save him from what he became, but game did not let me.
I looked forward to killing Loghain, killed his boot licking lacky right before I killed him. Ahhh good times.

[Herr Uhl]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

 There's no "right" answer, both are people who feel like they were doing the right thing but may have gone to extremes to do so. You have the option of killing them or letting them go, very, very similar. 

Funny, these were the hardest choices for me in both games.

The difference is that while Loghain has been hinted to have done it because he felt that the fight was unwinnable, Anders does it to prompt war.

[FellowerOfOdin]

This is just...yeesh, seriously? I don't want to get into detail, I don't feel like it's really worth my time, maybe later, but for starters: do you really want to compare the actions of a long-time, experienced war veteran with the deed of an insane terrorist?

Furthermore, guess what, it's a soldier's job to fight when he's ordered to do so. Everyone at Ostagar knew that chances are that you're not going home again. It's their job.

Think of the children in the chantry. And the women. Was it their job to get blown to pieces by a (sexually) confused terrorist? I don't think so.

[Herr Uhl]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Think of the children in the chantry. And the women. Was it their job to get blown to pieces by a (sexually) confused terrorist? I don't think so.

?

[Poubo]

Playing the Noble Paladin in games is tough, but my character stood for justice, similar to what the "spirit" was for Anders... However, killing innocent people is not justice. i was pretty much +100 with Anders, he betrayed my trust and by killing the innocent he had to be executed by my hand as it was essentially my fault.

[FellowerOfOdin]

Just a small, provoking sign for our heterophobic friends out there