116 réponses à ce sujet

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Aside from the lack of rune slots, and it's default model, Left Hand is actually a pretty decent blade.

[Gloxgasm]

Nice music =D

I'd read the guide!

[Maverick827]

I didn't know there were knockback immunity items. Are duelist tanks (or Isabella) viable?

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Not completely, IMO. Defense rate fails against special attacks, so health will need a fair amount of bumping up, which will be at the expense of Attack/Crit Chance or Defense/Crit Damage since most of the accessory slots will be taken by the immunity items.

[tonnactus]

AreleX wrote...

enudrom wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

How rogues deal with zero fortitude? Never saw any good items that helped them with that.

There are a few items scattered about that give immunity to knockback. In act 2 there is Etched Ring of the Twins from Nexus Golem, and in act 3 there is a dagger that's pretty good called.... Hand of the Carta or something similar.

Carta's Left Hand (41 DEX Req.)
42 Physical damage
+87 Attack
+10% Critical chance
25% Chance to reduce attack speed
25% Chance to reduce movement speed
Immunity to knockbak
Hanker (Decrepit Alley, Kind of Want)

I'd use it if you really really REALLY can't afford the Etched Ring of the Twins (which should be priority 1), but if you do have the ring, I'd go for something with rune slots instead, for the Primeval Lyrium Rune, and Rune of Devastation.

Thanks.But there is not only knockback,but also knockdown(rarer,but see that happen to rogues in the party) to handle and most of those items are only available at act 2 and 3.

[Moonstryder]

If you're going for Monster Aveline (Madveline  ), what skills would one use from her sword and shield tree, Shield bash and Perception?

Modifié par Moonstryder, 29 mars 2011 - 08:48 .

[Shep309]

Like most here, I'd read any guide you took the time to make. I really enjoyed your mach 5 vanguard/zerker guide and I'm sure if you decided to make a guide for the dw rogue it'd be just as good.

Personally I'd like to see more high quality archery rogue guides, if there are some floating around out there they are doing a grand job of hiding from me.

[AreleX]

I'm currently alternating between Fenris and Aveline for my party tank. I'm thinking that below level 10, Aveline will be superior, because of on-command staggers, but past that, Fenris will be better, since you can give him Claymore (only a 5s window when he won't be staggering everything in his range like a madman), load him up with sustains (I'm thinking Bravery would be OK for Fenris) since I wouldn't have him pushing my **** in with active talents, and give him Bolster/Second Wind to regenerate the little stamina he expends on Claymore/Taunt.

I really don't know, though, they both have their pros and cons, and these ideas could end up working very differently in practice, I'm just thinking out loud to get some feedback.

Shep309 wrote...

Like most here, I'd read any guide you took the time to make. I really enjoyed your mach 5 vanguard/zerker guide and I'm sure if you decided to make a guide for the dw rogue it'd be just as good.

Personally I'd like to see more high quality archery rogue guides, if there are some floating around out there they are doing a grand job of hiding from me.

You sure do know how to flatter a girl(guy)!

Modifié par AreleX, 29 mars 2011 - 09:06 .

[Moonstryder]

With the shield tree, Aveline can abuse dissorient from fatiguing fog set up by your rogues (Only if you roll with the no FF nightmare). Fenris kept killing my Rogues mid/late game so he had to sit out.



Side note: Does anyone know the number stats that the Obscure effect gives you?

Modifié par Moonstryder, 29 mars 2011 - 09:21 .

[Ace Attorney]

Aveline will be better if you invest in Sabotage and/or Disorienting Criticals (and obscuring skills). Disperse and Battery are extremely good if you can disorient reliably.

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 29 mars 2011 - 09:16 .

[SirValeq]

AreleX wrote...

I'm currently alternating between Fenris and Aveline for my party tank. I'm thinking that below level 10, Aveline will be superior, because of on-command staggers, but past that, Fenris will be better, since you can give him Claymore (only a 5s window when he won't be staggering everything in his range like a madman), load him up with sustains (I'm thinking Bravery would be OK for Fenris) since I wouldn't have him pushing my **** in with active talents, and give him Bolster/Second Wind to regenerate the little stamina he expends on Claymore/Taunt.

That's what I did on my Mach-5 playthrough when I experimented with different squadmates in mid-game and late-game. As long as Fenris was only auto-attacking with Cleave, he was alright. Decent survivability, decent sustained damage and he doesn't kill your party.

For the rogue playthrough (and as you said, past level 10) Fenris will probably be better for most of the game (he can tank and kill lots of lower ranked mobs while the rogue takes care of elites). Although, I'd still bring Aveline for difficult high-hp bosses, because even when specced mostly for dps, she'd probably be more survivable and have the only skill in the game that can put STAGGER on any boss.

[AreleX]

Just hit an Assassin for 3.1k with a fully loaded Explosive Strike (Merciless Strike upgrade) off a Fenris stagger at level 8. This is going exceedingly well!

Even with only Sunder to produce staggers for the moment, he's getting them like nobody's business.

I've decided to write this guide one I hit Act III, so I SHOULD (lord/laziness/free time willing) have this up in the next week or two. In the meantime, I could upload some vids of my progress, if people are curious to see.

[Roadkill888]

Please do, I'd love to try a DW rogue next.

[Fa1nT]

Doesn't the shadow tree and essentially the numerous threat reduction skills nullify a massive need for fortitude?

Sure the knockback ring/daggers are awesome, but a rogue is not supposed to be hit too many times?

Modifié par Fa1nT, 29 mars 2011 - 09:50 .

[AreleX]

Fa1nT wrote...

Doesn't the shadow tree and essentially the numerous threat reduction skills nullify a massive need for fortitude?

Sure the knockback ring/daggers are awesome, but a rogue is not supposed to be hit too many times?

To an extent, but it's more of a matter of 'better to have and not need, than need and not have'.

I'm working on ways to circumvent stunlock without going into Shadow, because Vendetta (Duelist tree) is one of the coolest ****ing skills in the GAME.

EDIT: Another Assassin just got straight up handled by Explosive Strike. It's a great way to one-shot Elites early game before you progress in the Assassin tree.

Modifié par AreleX, 29 mars 2011 - 09:55 .

[Altima Darkspells]

AreleX wrote...
To an extent, but it's more of a matter of 'better to have and not need, than need and not have'.

I'm working on ways to circumvent stunlock without going into Shadow, because Vendetta (Duelist tree) is one of the coolest ****ing skills in the GAME.

I like shadow because of the +25 crit damage as its first skill.  I also thought I'd like disorienting strike (I thought, hey, it's like stagger for rogues!), but it seems to not work well enough to dip into disorient CCCs for other characters, which is a shame.

Towards Act 2, I completely abandoned the DW tree ('cept for the chain passive) as the skills weren't especially great--except for twin strikes--and I started doing plenty of damage with basic attacks.  I just picked up stealth boots and have over 200% critical damage.  Which is just fantastic, might I add.

It's a shame that a lot of the rogue skills don't work as intended.

AreleX wrote...
but if you do have the ring, I'd go for something with rune slots instead, for the Primeval Lyrium Rune, and Rune of Devastation.

The Low Blade?  I think you mean the Low Blade.  Yeah, you want the Low Blade.

The Low Blade
Req 42 Dex
44 nature damage (81 DPS)
Runes: 2
+10% critical damage
+3% attack speed
25% chance to reduce attack speed
25% chance to reduce movement speed

And it's free.

Modifié par Altima Darkspells, 29 mars 2011 - 10:03 .

[Ace Attorney]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

AreleX wrote...
To an extent, but it's more of a matter of 'better to have and not need, than need and not have'.

I'm working on ways to circumvent stunlock without going into Shadow, because Vendetta (Duelist tree) is one of the coolest ****ing skills in the GAME.

I like shadow because of the +25 crit damage as its first skill.  I also thought I'd like disorienting strike (I thought, hey, it's like stagger for rogues!), but it seems to not work well enough to dip into disorient CCCs for other characters, which is a shame.

Towards Act 2, I completely abandoned the DW tree ('cept for the chain passive) as the skills weren't especially great--except for twin strikes--and I started doing plenty of damage with basic attacks.  I just picked up stealth boots and have over 200% critical damage.  Which is just fantastic, might I add.

It's a shame that a lot of the rogue skills don't work as intended.

Aveline says hi. So does Walking Bomb. Aveline is a BEAST under a Disoriented foe.

[Altima Darkspells]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Aveline says hi. So does Walking Bomb. Aveline is a BEAST under a Disoriented foe.

I agree (thought Walking Bomb is a patently bad idea in nightmare), but for me, by the time I have anything disoriented, it's mostly dead.

By mostly dead, I mean by the time it registers in my brain that it's disoriented, that it's dead.

There are lots of good ways to exploit Disorient (scatter, spirit bolt, walking bomb, stonefist), it's just that disorienting criticals isn't very good at causing them.  That's just my experience.  There does seem to be some sort of critical bug, though.

[AreleX]

My biggest issue with Disorient is its inconsistency; many skills involving it don't work properly, but if it worked the way it was supposed to, I'd give it more consideration. The best results I've had with it were using Fatiuging Fog, and I don't want to have to waste 4 points just to get to it.

The bonus crit damage passive from Shadow is REALLY hard to ignore, same with Inconspicuous' instant threat reduction utility.I'll probably write up one build using Shadow/Assassin and one with Duelist/Assassin, because I don't want my love for Vendetta to blind me from all the possibilities that come with Shadow.

Modifié par AreleX, 29 mars 2011 - 10:15 .

[SirValeq]

I hear you... Vendetta+Assasinate is probably the closest thing to a Charge+ClaymoreShot and that never gets old.

[Dead End FRS]

With duelist, you can cut alot of dex in favor of cun, since you get so much attack out of parry and sure strikes, so the difference in crit damage isn't that big. Also you are able to use fully upgraded speed, which is very nice too.

I never noticed threat like a real problem since most enemies just die too quickly for me to pull threat over a taunt (with no additional threat increasing talents). Decoy is nice, but stealth or back to back basically do the same thing.

[OlG-fr]

I'd be really interested in reading it too.

The sabotage tree and fatiguing fog are nice, with the fog you obscure yourself and teammates, disorient and debuff attack speed and movement of foes. Confusion can be handy on a bunch of archers plugging from afar.

But yes it's a lot of points, myself I ended respeccing out of it entirely.

I kept the Shadow tree, though, +25%crit dam, inconspicuous can come in handy, and disorienting criticals does grant an extra +25%crit dam when you're obscurated. For that purpose Chameleon's Breath from Subterfuge is excellent.

iLikeBWgames wrote...

Do it. I'm really curious if you can pull of some of the mid-game fights without pausing and/or micromanaging your tank. Getting the tank to do what you really want him/her to do seems to be very difficult through tactics only.

That

[AreleX]

For early-game tanking, I'm leaning heavily towards Aveline. I got my ass beat HORRIBLY fighting Hayder & co. at the end of Fools Rush In w/ Fenris, then I switched to Aveline, and it was easy as can be.

What are the fights you guys have in mind, exactly? I'll make sure to record them when I get there.

Modifié par AreleX, 30 mars 2011 - 12:33 .

[Fa1nT]

When doing the berserker vanguard, this was the hardest fight in the entire game for me.

http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Night_Lies